• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
The Cloud aerial combo is actually still in, it's just with enemies that aren't that high up (we can see it in the demo B-roll released two weeks ago iirc. The turret enemies are still not reachable by Cloud for instance, but the Monodrives are).

I assume we're going to have grenades and other items that we can also use beyond magic and all of that (although they would require ATB too).

Also, we've seen Steal in the Alps footage (Cloud has it I think. It's in Japanese, so I just took someone's word for it).
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,937
California
I love the materia system. I can't wait to play this again.

off topic, what happened to Garrett? He doesn't look right. I haven't been following this too much.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I'm guessing that, at the very least, we'll get ways to fill the summon gauge faster as the game goes on. It wasn't always the smartest idea to load everyone down with materia to take advantage of elemental weaknesses, given that materia affected stats; it was always about balancing the hit to physical attack and HP, plus summons could only be used a specific amount of times during battles. 1 summon slot is probably how they're balancing it now that the combat is more active, even with the classic mode.



We still have the ATB menu, though--materia could easily add new commands (Deathblow, for instance), enable counterattacks upon blocking an enemy attack, fill up the summon gauge upon death, or lead into combos/enable multiple attacks at once (or at least cause the same amount of damage that multiple attacks would deal).
Edited out first part as apparently summons might not be as limited.

In terms of ATB yeah we could have them add Deathblow and Steal there, but having it cost ATB means they'd have to get buffed considerably to make them worth it versus just using magic materia or limit breaks. Even using KH as a comparison point to make this system viable across the 5 characters present is going to require some animation reuse for sure. But even so those things will be incremental and tiny changes to the grand scheme of things.

Making Materia, a system that was previously a series of if/then statements into now just "buff everything for big numbers" is what I'm wary of. And if counter does exist I don't know how viable it would be given the current system of dodges and mostly one on one combat minus a few mobs here and there that might throw 1-3 enemies at you. The action system changes how all of these materia function, and several materia are downright pointless if you're limited on space and can use that slot for buffing yourself, using magic, or just enabling more damage.

The ATB system, if it remains as limited as it is currently, is going to be almost solely focused around damage dealing due to only having 1-2 charges. Even in the bigger boss fights where they weren't using it as much you have only so many times you can use spells before you run out of MP, meaning majority of the rest of it is going to be auto attacking and LBs.

Again, it's all theoretical based on what limited footage we've seen, but I don't have high hopes if the elemental materia is anything to go off of. We're most likely looking at incremental stat increases or simple mechanics to fit the simple fight system, due to the emphasis on dodging and action based combat versus having to have sort of "role" based combat before. I'm happy to be wrong though.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Lifejumper

Lifejumper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,268
Also can only be used in big/boss battles.
Nope theres a screenshot where ifrit is being used on a normal enemy.

EFPRPoCXsAIBGqX
 

BrandoBoySP

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,176
Right we know why they're doing that, but if they were one and done and high mp costs and weren't limited by battle arena like they're making it now, I feel it'd make summons cooler than "Just spam summons when you're in a boss fight arena" like it is currently. Or worse, fill up the summon gauge by fighting weak mobs before you go into a boss fight and just use them there. OR EVEN WORSE not being able to fill it up or prep summons in any way minus in a boss fight. Which then punishes you for doing well, much like FFXV did, when summons should be literally "big spells."

In terms of ATB yeah we could have them add Deathblow and Steal there, but having it cost ATB means they'd have to get buffed considerably to make them worth it versus just using magic materia or limit breaks. Even using KH as a comparison point to make this system viable across the 5 characters present is going to require some animation reuse for sure. But even so those things will be incremental and tiny changes to the grand scheme of things.

Making Materia, a system that was previously a series of if/then statements into now just "buff everything for big numbers" is what I'm wary of. And if counter does exist I don't know how viable it would be given the current system of dodges and mostly one on one combat minus a few mobs here and there that might throw 1-3 enemies at you. The action system changes how all of these materia function, and several materia are downright pointless if you're limited on space and can use that slot for buffing yourself, using magic, or just enabling more damage.

The ATB system, if it remains as limited as it is currently, is going to be almost solely focused around damage dealing due to only having 1-2 charges. Even in the bigger boss fights where they weren't using it as much you have only so many times you can use spells before you run out of MP, meaning majority of the rest of it is going to be auto attacking and LBs.

Again, it's all theoretical based on what limited footage we've seen, but I don't have high hopes if the elemental materia is anything to go off of. We're most likely looking at incremental stat increases or simple mechanics to fit the simple fight system, due to the emphasis on dodging and action based combat versus having to have sort of "role" based combat before. I'm happy to be wrong though.

/shrug honestly, I don't feel much of a way about the summons. They're very much in line with what the more recent Final Fantasies did with them, and are basically another limit break given the meter. You're not punished for doing well, though; the meter builds up with every attack you do. I doubt they'd limit it to just boss fights (they didn't in other games), so it's pretty much a choice of if you want to do it on trash mobs or bosses. I kinda think it suits the idea of them as summoning something to fight alongside you, but I do understand why it might not be your favorite.

Deathblow and such could also change the non-ATB battle commands, or add new commands that don't necessarily require ATB bars for use. We only see Square, Triangle, and Circle used in the battle menu, so unless they reserve X solely for interacting with objects in the game world even during battle, command materia could add an X command (or replace Square or Triangle, even). For all we know, they could just add a new command to the Circle menu that may or may not use ATB bars.

I'm not quite sure how you're getting if/then statements out of materia, though. It wasn't Gambits or anything; it added extra stats and commands that could be modified by a few other materia. Like, linking the All materia to Bolt isn't if/then; it's just multi-target Bolt. Counter could easily be something where, if you block an attack properly, Cloud slashes with his sword after the block, or it could reduce the delay between blocking and attacking. Kingdom Hearts has it, after all.

Having seen mostly boss battles, I don't think we can safely say it's mostly one-on-one combat. Hell, didn't the combat demo show a fight against 3 Shin-Ra grunts at once? Enemy groups in the original game were comprised of 1-5 baddies, but the most common configurations I see are 3-4 enemies. I'd be surprised if the game keeps you only at 2 ATB bars, too. XIII's prerelease materials only showed the early fights with limited ATB bars, but the game granted you more as you progressed.

As far as the elemental materia function, it looks like instead of converting all your damage to an element, it adds additional damage instead. From the perspective of how the original game was, I can see how that might be disappointing, but it's not quite clear if it's normal damage + a percentage of elemental damage on top of that or if the percentage replaces part of the normal damage. Honestly, I kind of like the idea of it being percentage-based, because it means that if I encounter a new enemy that absorbs Thunder, I won't have to worry about whittling it down only to have a Thunder/Elemental link restore half the enemy's health; instead, it's a small heal.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,263
Game is so freaking gorgeous. It's hard to complain about development time when it looks this amazing.
 

Pavemaniac

Member
Sep 10, 2019
194
Right it was armor before but now it's accessories. -shrug- Most likely to do with the fact that armor kind of makes no sense in the new system given the lack of soaking damage and emphasis on action/dodging/etc. They clearly still have status ailments and stuff so things like Ribbon and other elemental bangles will still be relevant at least.

Limiting summons makes sense in their new system even if I hate the new system. "Fighting alongside summons" imo is inferior to having an awesome spectacle showcase mid fight and makes me wonder how on earth they'll scale this with things like Alexander or god forbid Knights of the Round.

I mean we're lucky to get anything more than possibly Shiva/Ifrit and the preorder ones in this part 1 because I can't think of why they'd have things like Leviathan and others in this game, so it really makes me wonder why you even have summon slots like this on each character unless they fill the gaps with really dumb/new summons like the chocobo baby and cactuar they seem to be using as preorder incentives. We'll see though.

I'm less worried about summoning and more worried about how Materia could literally just be the same incremental negligible stat increases we see in every "RPG" system tacked onto action combat like God of War and the like.
Seems like they've removed all '%' stats to accommodate for manual dodging. While dodging is emphasised, they'll still need defensive stats for when taking damage inevitably happens. These seem to have been taken into account as armor and defense stats are displayed in the image.

In any case, the point I was trying to raise before was on how these changes will intergrate with the lore. What FFVII, VI and VIII all did well with their ability systems is tie them back into the story. Anyone can see why the design team have limited summon usage in terms of FF7R's gameplay but hopefully Nojima & Nomura can also provide a narrative explanation for why summons can't be slotted alongside other materia.
 

Zephy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,163
I've never been a fan of those "add 2% whatever" effects. I prefer when upgrades actually make a difference. This feels so insignificant that I can't see myself spending any time at all wondering about stuff like "do I want a 2% elemental bonus on my attacks or do I prefer a 3% chance to deal critical counterattacks ?" Usually with this sort of systems I just pick a random option and never bother going into that menu again.

And let's keep in mind that 2% elemental damage means it will only add this tiny bonus to what is already a damage bonus percentage, which itself depends on what kind of enemy you hit. So basically instead of dealing, say, 120 damage, you will deal 121 to like one out of four enemies.
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,184
Denmark
I seem to remember there being a good reason to do Bahamut=Elemental for armor in the original, but I can't remember why. Something like Bahamut being non-elemental would make you resistant to non-elemental attacks, meaning physical hits or something.

FF7 had some janky materia interactions at times. I kind of hope the remake allows for some creative slotting, too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,466
I seem to remember there being a good reason to do Bahamut=Elemental for armor in the original, but I can't remember why. Something like Bahamut being non-elemental would make you resistant to non-elemental attacks, meaning physical hits or something.

FF7 had some janky materia interactions at times. I kind of hope the remake allows for some creative slotting, too.
I just beat the game for the first time and am realizing I missed out on pretty much the entire system. Many of the material descriptions descriptions were so vague and poorly translated that I didn't really know what they did beyond the basic stuff if I'm being honest.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Looks like a materia screen? Am I missing something here on why this is so hype? Looks like the same system as before with a new UI...
Well you're not looking hard enough then.

For a start the Original Buster sword was a 2 slot item. Now it's 2 + Summon.

This is a major change because Summons are now limited to their own slot and you can't go in with multiple red materia.

Secondly is a change to how Elemental materia works, with the way elemental damage is calculated changed.

So even in this singular screenshot we have 2 major changes to how the Materia system works. There's potentially more when we see the full Materia list.
 

Frantz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
131
Milky Way
I hope there is still the bug/cheat to duplicate items with w-item materia :D
I always wondered if it was a bug or it was intended.
Does someone know the answer?
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,383
Level 13 with 1k HP??
Kinda worried this game will be too easy like FF15
I have faith but from the boss clips ive seen with the team taking like 3 damage, im scared
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Not a big fan of the whole "one summon at a time" thing.

They're not just a single attack any more, though, so I can forgive them for limiting us to three summons per party. Plus equipping multiple summons on a single character was generally a bad idea in the original game anyway because each one carried a stat penalty.
 

Auron.90

Member
Dec 3, 2017
765
5000AP for one level and the fifth level only increases elemental damage/absorption by 5%... Why bother?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
They're not just a single attack any more, though, so I can forgive them for limiting us to three summons per party. Plus equipping multiple summons on a single character was generally a bad idea in the original game anyway because each one carried a stat penalty.

I would PREFER the summons just be one attack. I don't like the FFXII style of summon. It means we're not going to get to use cool shit like Bahamut or Alexander because those things can't fit ANYWHERE.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,989
I'm not going to jump to conclusions about the Materia system. I'm excited for the full explanation eventually, though. Regarding summons, I'm ok with what they are now.
 

Tornak

Member
Feb 7, 2018
8,393
I would PREFER the summons just be one attack. I don't like the FFXII style of summon. It means we're not going to get to use cool shit like Bahamut or Alexander because those things can't fit ANYWHERE.
They could always have separate areas for summons like those (that dissapear/turn back to normal when they're gone).
5000AP for one level and the fifth level only increases elemental damage/absorption by 5%... Why bother?
Tbh you're going to attack and get hit a lot, unlike in the original, so it makes sense that they nerfed that.

I don't know if it'll make sense when we play the game, though.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
This is one thing I have been worried about as they have seemed kind of tight lipped about existing systems like this.

I hope it still manages to contain some of the cool synergy and customization options from the original system. This slight peek just seems adequate and in line with other loot rpgs, which is a bit disappointing personally.
 

JaxiPup

Member
Dec 23, 2017
675
Massachusetts
I would PREFER the summons just be one attack. I don't like the FFXII style of summon. It means we're not going to get to use cool shit like Bahamut or Alexander because those things can't fit ANYWHERE.
There's still the possibility of 'cutscene tier' summons though (0:54)


KotR, Alexander, Bahamut Zero, I doubt those summons would get tiny party member forms. Just saying you can't rule it out.
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,184
Denmark
I just beat the game for the first time and am realizing I missed out on pretty much the entire system. Many of the material descriptions descriptions were so vague and poorly translated that I didn't really know what they did beyond the basic stuff if I'm being honest.
If you want a few good ones for a replay, I can offer a couple favorites.

Final Attack is a blue materia, it triggers the paired materia on death. Now you'd think that putting some huge attack on that is smart, and certainly Final Attack=Bahamut is fun. But we can do better! What is the one thing you need the most at 0 HP? A revive! So you do Final Attack=Revive. Now when you hit 0 HP, you'll cast Life2 on the first available target, being yourself. But we can do better! Because why not have both? Final Attack=Phoenix! You die, you summon Phoenix, who burns the enemies and revives you and the entire party.

Contain is a green materia that has a lot of varied status effect spells on it. Added Effect is a blue materia that adds the effects of the paired materia to your attack. Added Effect=Contain is a classic.

A small one, but one that means you never have to worry about Gil ever again. All is a blue materia that lets a single target spell target everyone. It is also one of the fastest materia to hit Master level. Sell it! Master materia sell for over a million and you can have this before finishing disk 1.

There are many more fun mateira combos. the blue Counter materia allowing whatever is paired with it to trigger on getting hit is so broken. Counter=Mime is legendary for killing superbosses by starting the battle with a Limit Break and taking a hit to the face. You do need eight sets of it to do it, but putting the controller down and watching Barret gun down superbosses for five minutes straight is amusing.

I hope the remake allows for silly combos like these. I doubt Final Attack is in this one, since that's a really lategame one in the original, but figuring out how to break the materia system was part of the fun. Even if the most useful combo of all is the boring old Cure=All.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,207
TBF if this game is just covering Midgar, there shouldnt be any summons at all. So them limiting it to one at a time now is just them throwing us a bone, really
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,880
Columbia, SC
There's still the possibility of 'cutscene tier' summons though (0:54)


KotR, Alexander, Bahamut Zero, I doubt those summons would get tiny party member forms. Just saying you can't rule it out.


Yeah, 2 kinds of summons would make sense to me. Ones that fight along side you and others that nuke the battlefield. Both would have some obvious advantages and disadvantages.
 

andresmoros

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,468
Houston
48784831786_91928afb8a_h.jpg

Lots of peeps were wondering if the materia linking system was still in.

It stresses me out that Final Fantasy VII has this industrial theme, this mechanic kind of feel, yet they picked a humanistic sans-serif for the UI. It should be using something more angular and mechanical, a geometric sans-serif should do the trick. I don't know, off the top of my head, something like DIN, Avenir or Brandon Grotesque could look much better.
 

Ebnas

Member
May 15, 2019
366
5000AP for one level and the fifth level only increases elemental damage/absorption by 5%... Why bother?
You're ignoring the Armor effects, which upgrades from half damage to no damage to absorption.

Getting a set of 3 element-absorbing armors would be an absolute coup against the right boss.
 

RedSeim

Banned
Sep 24, 2019
65
As far as I can remember, the materia linking system in the OG allowed us to assign different kinds of magic skills and comands to each character. Am I right? Doesn't seem like the materia in the screenshot adds any kind of new command/magic, isn't it? I hope I am wrong! It's to soon to tell.

Anyways, this game looks better day by day!
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,184
Denmark
As far as I can remember, the materia linking system in the OG allowed us to assign different kinds of magic skills and comands to each character. Am I right? Doesn't seem like the materia in the screenshot adds any kind of new command/magic, isn't it? I hope I am wrong! It's to soon to tell.

Anyways, this game looks better day by day!
Those were the yellow materia. We haven't seen yellows in the remake yet. Magic comes from the green ones, and we already have a new green confirmed for FF7R. One of the videos had "Aero" available as a spell. There was no Wind materia in the original.
 

RedSeim

Banned
Sep 24, 2019
65
Those were the yellow materia. We haven't seen yellows in the remake yet. Magic comes from the green ones, and we already have a new green confirmed for FF7R. One of the videos had "Aero" available as a spell. There was no Wind materia in the original.
Right. Thankyou for your clarification.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,498
The Digital World
I seem to remember there being a good reason to do Bahamut=Elemental for armor in the original, but I can't remember why. Something like Bahamut being non-elemental would make you resistant to non-elemental attacks, meaning physical hits or something.

FF7 had some janky materia interactions at times. I kind of hope the remake allows for some creative slotting, too.
It helped protect you from the Hidden element, which only a few enemies use. The few that do hit *hard* though.
 

Scrooge McDuck

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,038
In any case, the point I was trying to raise before was on how these changes will intergrate with the lore. What FFVII, VI and VIII all did well with their ability systems is tie them back into the story. Anyone can see why the design team have limited summon usage in terms of FF7R's gameplay but hopefully Nojima & Nomura can also provide a narrative explanation for why summons can't be slotted alongside other materia.
The summons role in the original game are a bit weird to begin with. Like, I just randomly pick a red materia somewhere, used it, and suddenly an electric old guy appeared. There's no explanation at all about who or what exactly are these magical creatures. I am kinda hoping they'd expand on that a bit.


I would PREFER the summons just be one attack. I don't like the FFXII style of summon. It means we're not going to get to use cool shit like Bahamut or Alexander because those things can't fit ANYWHERE.
They could always transport the arena wholesale to another realm ala Neo Bahamut.
Or they could have the bigger summoned beasts just shoot from afar before the final big move.