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Shahed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
841
UK, Newcastle
I think Kitase was wrong. The game was basically a perfect "mental remake" up until Nomura added his bizarre fanfic nonsense.
I'll admit I kinda feel similar. I was really liking it. It was grounded similarly to the original. At least until it went all
all Advent Children style with a Kingdom Hearts Darkness boss. I am hoping the ghosts/whispers are gone now having been defeated, and now we get a somewhat similar yet alternate reimagining of the story
 

The Emperor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,790
I knew it was Nomura, haha.

" while game design and drama scene direction was left to co-directors Hamaguchi and Toriyama"

Toriyama the Chad.

Great cutscene direction.
Yup for all the hate Toriyama gets here...his cutscene direction is always amazing.

The content needs to be left to others...but his direction is so good
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,297
This maybe the weirdest part of the hate train.

If it was amazing/perfect until the end Nomura needs as much credit for the amazing story that came before, the wonderful storytelling in wall market and the great character expansions for Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.

Yet Nomura haters are only willing to let him take "credit" for the last sequence.

Y'all are a weird bunch.
Yeah I find this so bizarre. If you want to pan him for the ending in the same breath you also have to give him kudos if you enjoyed the rest of the game - which is pretty much the majority of it. The final chapters felt a little incongruous with what comes before and feel free to criticise it, but to scapegoat Nomura as the person who apparently 'ruined' the game is ridiculous.
With regards to the interview, I am really glad they went with the battle system they did and didn't just fancy up the graphics without altering the overall design.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,484
Someone really needs to reign Nomura in a bit. He seems to like destroying any narrative tension by going absurdly over the top, and doesn't seem to understand subtly and the ebb and flow of a story(if that is him mostly responsible), Like the president scene changes for instance, its completely unnecessary and just serves to destroy the drama and tension.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Nomura says that Final Fantasy VII Remake's release does not overwrite the original Final Fantasy VII. The original is the origin, and VII Remake is only possible because of the original. He hopes that fans of the original will be able to enjoy the new yet nostalgic parts and differences from the original, and play it with the same feelings as those touching FFVII for the first time with Remake. He says that while this is the first of multiple parts, he thinks that it has the volume of one entire game on its own, and hopes that players enjoy it.

Really dodging the question of whether they are planning sequels at all here. I guess it solely depends on the success of the initial "remake". I also wonder what part Sony played in funding the project with Square, considering they heavily co-opted the project to sell fans on PS4. There might be no such promise for continued projects, and Square Enix might be facing some trouble with the upcoming Marvel game, so maybe they're really being conservative financially for a while. If this game knocks it out of the park it's probably a no-brainer but I think we're not actually guaranteed to see follow-ups as is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
753
This maybe the weirdest part of the hate train.

If it was amazing/perfect until the end Nomura needs as much credit for the amazing story that came before, the wonderful storytelling in wall market and the great character expansions for Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.

Yet Nomura haters are only willing to let him take "credit" for the last sequence.

Y'all are a weird bunch.

It's almost like Nomura is fine when he is constrained by the plot of the original but shits the bed when deviating from that. It's a good thing that he didn't just retcon himself a way to do whatever he wants in future entries....oh wait. Sort of like how the GoT guys were great when they were adapting from the already published books but once they had to strike out on their own it all went down the toilet and now everybody hates them.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I think Kitase was wrong. The game was basically a perfect "mental remake" up until Nomura added his bizarre fanfic nonsense.
It's all just building up to a paid Retcon DLC, that we will all love. After you play that, you will see. FFVII resumes as expected, they just wanted to get our expectations in a blender.
 

Jon God

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
Trainwreck confirmed then.
Wasn't it obvious when you got to the end of FF7R and it was literally just Nomura throwing this amazing thing they made right into the trash
That Nomura was primarily responsible for the storyline is incredibly obvious from the game itself. It has his name written all over it, and not for good reasons.

Nomura is such a bad storyteller.
Uuurgghh.
At least it was enjoyable up until the ending.

Truth.

Here we go with the Nomura is bad thread.
Gotta love the salt Nomura brings out of people.

People having legitimate concerns backed up with real evidence? Shocking!?
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,754
This maybe the weirdest part of the hate train.

If it was amazing/perfect until the end Nomura needs as much credit for the amazing story that came before, the wonderful storytelling in wall market and the great character expansions for Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.

Yet Nomura haters are only willing to let him take "credit" for the last sequence.

Y'all are a weird bunch.
That's not what the person you quoted is saying. Nomura was doing great until he added the time traveling ghosts and possible parallel universes. They didn't need to do that and it drags the game down for many people. They're disappointed that Nomura/Kitase had it almost in the bag but then threw it away due to lack of confidence in the material. If anything I'd imagine that the rest of the game being so good makes the stuff that drags it down all that harder to swallow. It's like a carrot dangling in front of you and just as you almost grab it ghosts swoop in and drag it away and you fall into a parallel timeline where carrots don't exist.

Like if you make something 90% good but the other 10% ruins the 90% it kinda doesn't matter how good that 90% was.
 

Beth Cyra

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,903
It's almost like Nomura is fine when he is constrained by the plot of the original but shits the bed when deviating from that. It's a good thing that he didn't just retcon himself a way to do whatever he wants in future entries....oh wait. Sort of like how the GoT guys were great when they were adapting from the already published books but once they had to strike out on their own it all went down the toilet and now everybody hates them.
Don't agree that Nomura's take is bad or that he shat the bed.

I do agree however his work was better in the Jessie expansion than the ending so being rounded/reigned in is indeed his best work.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,759
This thread could make you think everyone hates the ending when the poll of liking / disliking the ending is at 67/33 in favor of liking it, lol.
 

Deleted member 54073

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 22, 2019
3,983
Go on, with spoiler tags, explain why it was amazing
Yes, I would be beyond excited to have the exact same game 1 to 1 but in much better graphics, but now we have a re-imagining on our hands. That masterpiece game from the nineties still exists, it's not ruined. Infact with what happened at the end of Remake, both games now go hand in hand and work together. You can still go back and play it and enjoy the hell out of it. I now go into the next game wondering what will happen next rather than just wondering what area it'll finish in. We will now spend the next couple of years not just waiting, but speculating. I love these characters and this world and I am pretty damn excited to see what new stuff they do with it all. How the whole Zack alternate timeline turns out remains to be seen but again, I'm excited to find out.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
That shit rarely end up working. Especially when thrown into a already existing narrative.
It never ends up working because even if it "works" it kills any believability of any character drama or any stakes going forward. You've opened pandora's box. Anything can happen because if someone dies or something goes bad, if the hero wins or if the villain dies, it can all be legally retconned on the terms of the storytelling's own paramters: Time travel. Anything that has happened can be un-happened and it will be canon, all of it. It effectively means nothing particular will happen in the end, and everything is the same.
 

clockstrikes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,560
Fair enough. I personally don't have a problem with it. It's a ridiculous twist on an already ridiculous story, I just go along with it and enjoy the ride.

Gotta say though, I imagine the Nomura influence will get much much stronger in future games. Everyone should brace themselves. Part 1 had the benefit of being mainly focused on Shinra and AVALANCHE.

Idk, I think he might have less, especially now that he's got 4 KH teams to lead.

Besides, Nojima is the one credited with writing the scenario. Nomura certainly had some influence but he's not the only one to blame if things take a weird turn.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Toriyama is redeemed in my eyes.
All you need to do is give Toriyama his own project with no solid script to pre-base it on, and you will hate him again.

If a director cannot tell what makes stories functional, then they will not be any help in directing a game to have a good plot, the blueprint of the story. Guys like Kitase and Nojima understood the importance of making the plot as the backbone first, and directing the game accordingly. That's what I think Toriyama doesn't get. He can make FFVIIR awesome because he really doesn't have to direct the story's plot, he already had the plot and respected it religiously (except for the added parts where he clearly doesn't) but really, FFVIIR's storytelling works because Nojima not only was hired again but his old work was already the blueprint from the outset. If there was a blank paper with nothing on it, we would get another FFXIII or another FFXV because that's how lost the current guard at Square Enix is with storytelling. I think game-wise they're mostly fine or great.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
This maybe the weirdest part of the hate train.

If it was amazing/perfect until the end Nomura needs as much credit for the amazing story that came before, the wonderful storytelling in wall market and the great character expansions for Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.

Yet Nomura haters are only willing to let him take "credit" for the last sequence.

Y'all are a weird bunch.

Pretty much. It's selective outrage. They don't want to give him any credit for the the heaps of positive (by their own admission) aspects and changes throughout the entirety of the game, only criticism for the ending. It's tiresome.


This thread could make you think everyone hates the ending when the poll of liking / disliking the ending is at 67/33 in favor of liking it, lol.

Essentially an extremely loud vocal minority that is really hyperbolic about how much they dislike it, as is often the case with these things.
 
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SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,148
Yes, I would be beyond excited to have the exact same game 1 to 1 but in much better graphics, but now we have a re-imagining on our hands. That masterpiece game from the nineties still exists, it's not ruined. You can still go back and play it and enjoy the hell out of it. I now go into the next game wondering what will happen next rather than just wondering what area it'll finish in. I love these characters and this world and I am pretty damn excited to see what new stuff they do with it all. How the whole Zack alternate timeline turns out remains to be seen but again, I'm excited to find out.
So you break a ton of rules of the universe, retcon character deaths to the point where, if things end up taking place in the same timeline, things don't even make logical sense anymore, and if things take place in alternate timelines, then it's just total garbage entirely, AND all of this was done just to say that, going forward, Square is not remaking FF7 anymore, but rather making a psuedo-reboot/sequel. And all of that is worth it because now you don't know what's going to happen next?
That seems ridiculous to me, but to each their own.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,654
This thread could make you think everyone hates the ending when the poll of liking / disliking the ending is at 67/33 in favor of liking it, lol.
What does that matter. I hate when y'all do that on here who cares! More ppl liking it don't stop the ppl from not liking it? Same way ppl can yell omg greatest thing ever those ppl should be able to dish out why they think it's not
 

Araujo

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,196
Quite honestly, Maximillian already answered this thread for me so i'll just leave his words here...

www.twitch.tv

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,759
What does that matter. I hate when y'all do that on here who cares! More ppl liking it don't stop the ppl from not liking it?

Did I say anything like that? I said the negative comments in here could make someone think that everyone thinks the ending is terrible when that's not the case. Chill, bro.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,148
Quite honestly, Maximillian already answered this thread for me so i'll just leave his words here...

www.twitch.tv

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.
Incredibly stupid, oversimplistic handwaiving of the entire reason that so many people are unhappy with the choices made with, specifically, the ending. But sure, it sounds nice when you phrase it like that, so it's easy to believe it
 

Dale Copper

Member
Apr 12, 2018
22,027
Idk, I think he might have less, especially now that he's got 4 KH teams to lead.

Besides, Nojima is the one credited with writing the scenario. Nomura certainly had some influence but he's not the only one to blame if things take a weird turn.
Well people are always going to blaming or crediting the director for better or worse a lot of the times.
 

spman2099

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,891
Quite honestly, Maximillian already answered this thread for me so i'll just leave his words here...

www.twitch.tv

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

It is possible to do different things that are also not bad. Honestly, some of the changes in FF7R are well-thought-out (or at the very least, have merit), but some of the changes are pretty dumb. Though, unfortunately, if a Final Fantasy game has Nomura attached to it you simply have to accept that some really poor decisions are going to be made (narratively speaking).

This is era. The haters are incredibly vocal over here.

Resetera is all the negative things you want it to be when you disagree with the things people are saying, right? It is funny how quickly people fall back on this defense mechanism...
 

Isayas

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
2,729
User banned (3 days): Trolling. History of similar behavior.
I loved the ending because one it got all of you guys mad and two the remake is not supposed to replace. Keep getting mad because it makes me happy.
 

The Last One

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,585
Resetera is all the negative things you want it to be when you disagree with the things people are saying, right? It is funny how quickly people fall back on this defense mechanism...

It really is when people bash a single person for not liking 5% of the game.
 

a Question

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,218
Incredibly stupid, oversimplistic handwaiving of the entire reason that so many people are unhappy with the choices made with, specifically, the ending. But sure, it sounds nice when you phrase it like that, so it's easy to believe it
It is possible to do different things that are also not bad. Honestly, some of the changes in FF7R are well-thought-out (or at the very least, have merit), but some of the changes are pretty dumb. Though, unfortunately, if a Final Fantasy game has Nomura attached to it you simply have to accept that some really poor decisions are going to be made (narratively speaking).
To be fair this is a little piece of the VOD, so if you want his detailed thoughts just check the ending of the VOD he even checks Eurogamer video that touches on disagreement on the game. Mind you ending of the VOD is quite hefty.
 

Deleted member 54073

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 22, 2019
3,983
So you break a ton of rules of the universe, retcon character deaths to the point where, if things end up taking place in the same timeline, things don't even make logical sense anymore, and if things take place in alternate timelines, then it's just total garbage entirely, AND all of this was done just to say that, going forward, Square is not remaking FF7 anymore, but rather making a psuedo-reboot/sequel. And all of that is worth it because now you don't know what's going to happen next?
That seems ridiculous to me, but to each their own.
Not sure what rules you're talking about when the main enemy of the game hits you with an attack that destroys half the solar system but okay. With regards to Biggs being alive and an alternate timeline with Zack.. who knows how that will turn out. It could be great or terrible, the only thing we know is that it'll be different and new and I understand that it terrifies people because that wasn't what they wanted which is fine. We'll still see the same characters, the same towns etc. I played the original wondering where the story will go next, and I will be doing the same with the next games that are released and that to me is a good thing.
 

Nakenorm

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
22,287
Can't wait for more spoiler discussions about this. Even though I think the ending is pretty awful overall the discussions are atleast pretty interesting. At least when people are able to have a discussion about it and not just get defensive over their opinion.
The kinda funny guys seemed to like it, Maximillian as well. But damiani (Easy Allies), Aofie (Eurogamer) and Joe Juba (gameinformer) didn't.
Looking forward to more stuff to get posted in the coming weeks.
 

Deleted member 1594

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,762
just Nomura throwing this amazing thing they made right into the trash
Which is strange because the strongest aspect of the original game is the story and the character interactions. These stupid fucking ghosts ruin both the plot and some of the strongest moments from the game. Just feels like a huge slap in the face, as I was really looking forward to experiencing this game fully voice acted with modern graphics. But the fucked it up :(
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
Resetera is all the negative things you want it to be when you disagree with the things people are saying, right? It is funny how quickly people fall back on this defense mechanism...
Everyone is wrong when they're outside the group think to people, and it's not exclusive to here sadly.

"Lots of people like thing, so people who don't like thing are bad."
"But here's why they don't like thing."
"Well i'm going to move the goal posts and explain how other thing is good and they like that thing so therefore they should like all of thing."
"But that's not what they said, they hate that the choices ruined the rest of said thing."
"The vocal minority strikes again, people like thing and it is beyond dispute, just consume product and look forward to next product."
"So I can only talk if I like thing but not if I don't like thing?"
"That is correct, unless it's thing that all of us agree is bad, in which case we can all dogpile on thing."
"That seems awful hypocritical and reductive to discussion?"
"Are you still talking about thing? Don't you have better things to do like enjoy thing?"

This is what the internet feels like sometimes.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,105
What does that matter. I hate when y'all do that on here who cares! More ppl liking it don't stop the ppl from not liking it? Same way ppl can yell omg greatest thing ever those ppl should be able to dish out why they think it's not

I agree but era has a habit of saying it so much that think it's the majority view and then it make debates \discussion nonsense .
UC4 is a perfect eg of this .

As for the ending i in wait and see mode and the second game will make or break this but i do like the idea of new story aspects with the old ones.
 

Makoto Yuki

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,410
Fuck yeah, Final Fantasy VII going full on Kingdom Hearts crazy.

Well, as much as I love that, I'm hoping by the end of the series it still hit's all the original's high notes.
 

RagnarokX

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,754
To be fair this is a little piece of the VOD, so if you want his detailed thoughts just check the ending of the VOD he even checks Eurogamer video that touches on disagreement on the game. Mind you ending of the VOD is quite hefty.
I watched the whole thing live. He kept dismissing dissent as "purists not liking change" when that's not the issue for most people not happy with the changes. People aren't upset just because they changed things; they're upset that the changes are really really dumb and poorly executed.