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Mr.Fletcher

Member
Nov 18, 2017
9,494
UK
I think Valkyrie Profile 2 handled it best because there was no power difference (usually) to the various einherjar. They lock some of the most powerful things in the game behind the gacha and that's just not good to me. Having a bunch of different characters is one thing, but tangible power is held behind that barrier and I see it as a terrible concept as a result.

I pop a bunch of cores too, and while you may say it's obsessive to min/max or whatever there are several blades that are definitely more powerful and combined with the need for a separate hard to get item to transfer blades and possibly getting the wrong blades on the wrong drivers there's several reasons why it is as hated as it is, and as much as I absolutely love the game will not defend.

To know you could get a gimped Nia or useless builds on Morag and then they go and do what they do with Rex later in the story really screws over that concept entirely.

I definitely farmed for cores myself and NG+ and the season pass free items helped, but let's not pretend like the system is anywhere close to well done.

I mean, I'm not trying to pretend the system is well done, just saying it didn't really bother me. The power gap between most blades isn't massive, and not big enough to stop you from finishing the game anyway. A lot of high end common blades - particularly ones with orb master - are more useful than a lot of rare blades too. Plus, a lot of the top tier blades are either obtained through the story or via quests.

You get Pyra, Mythra, Roc, Nia, Dromarch, Brighid, Aegaeon, Poppi, Poppi QT, Pandoria and Wulfric throughout the story. While you can get the likes of Poppi QT Pi (the most powerful blade in the game), Theory, Praxis, Sheba, Herald and Kasandra via quests you find in the world. Then of course you've got the three pity blades you will definitely get - and let's be honest, you're likely to get more over the course of the game.

No one will not be able to beat the game because of the gacha - you're handed too much on a plate. I do agree with you about overdrives however and I will say it's frustrating to have the most optimised builds locked behind luck. I don't think we're disagreeing with each other, just coming at the issue with different perspectives. :)

I'm saying I have 3 rare blades I need left out of all of them *whoosh*

Woops!

The pity system only works for certain blades (That are decided at the beginning of the game, when you save the game for the first time), one can go through 300 cores and never see KOS-MOS.

See above - misread the post. I think the game should eventually just give you everyone after a certain amount of pulls. It's a shame the pity system only extends to three blades.
 

Lunchbox

ƃuoɹʍ ʇᴉ ƃuᴉop ǝɹ,noʎ 'ʇɥƃᴉɹ sᴉɥʇ pɐǝɹ noʎ ɟI
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,548
Rip City
The pity system only works for certain blades (That are decided at the beginning of the game, when you save the game for the first time), one can go through 300 cores and never see KOS-MOS.
The pity system is depressing, I'm missing her & some other guys, man... I should go back to Torna.. easily my most played game on Switch.
 

id.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
158
I played this game for a couple hundred hours and I didn't like the battle system. I honestly don't even think I fully understood it, which hasn't happened to me before in a jrpg. It also wasn't very fun, and didn't make me want to obtain all of the blades as a result.

I personally prefer turn-based (Xenogears), but if I'm picking between combat like this I highly preferred the first Xenoblade game over this.
 

KCsoLucky

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,585
One drawback is the uncontrollable nature of Driver Combos. You either have to sit waiting for your companions to use Topple/Topple-Launch with a Smasher or Topple yourself and hope that they finish it off. The bar goes down quickly and usually when you switch the right Blades won't be available in enough time. Trying to manage those along with Blade Combos is just too much for the relatively minor benefit unless you're smashing super bosses for cubes, not to mention that you have to build your party around Driver Combos vice Elemental Orbs/Chain Combos/General Utility(except Cutie Pie obviously).

The game also has the problem that the battle system is designed around endgame(very similar to FF13 and you see similar complaints about it being slow/simple here for most of the game), which is very valid, but I played so much of it that I don't even remember how it was during the story.

Adding to the bullshit gacha comments, I got KOS-MOS(rarest Blade) at around the 110 hour mark, and I was one of the luckier ones based on pull mechanics and drop rates. It's most peoples' last blade.
 

Euman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
455
One drawback is the uncontrollable nature of Driver Combos. You either have to sit waiting for your companions to use Topple/Topple-Launch with a Smasher or Topple yourself and hope that they finish it off. The bar goes down quickly and usually when you switch the right Blades won't be available in enough time. Trying to manage those along with Blade Combos is just too much for the relatively minor benefit unless you're smashing super bosses for cubes, not to mention that you have to build your party around Driver Combos vice Elemental Orbs/Chain Combos/General Utility(except Cutie Pie obviously).

The game also has the problem that the battle system is designed around endgame(very similar to FF13 and you see similar complaints about it being slow/simple here for most of the game), which is very valid, but I played so much of it that I don't even remember how it was during the story.

Adding to the bullshit gacha comments, I got KOS-MOS(rarest Blade) at around the 110 hour mark, and I was one of the luckier ones based on pull mechanics and drop rates. It's most peoples' last blade.
This is pretty much how I felt. Sure those combos were nice to pull off, but I felt like I was constantly waiting for my party to build their meters up, failing to do it in time most of the time. You really had to think about when you were going to use whatever art because there's a good chance none of your party members will have their meter up to to the next level. I found myself letting my party just grind out attacks for the first part of the battle, then I'd do the first art and hope I gave them enough time to hit the second, and I'd scramble to get my meter up to III.

That is if the battle wasn't over before any of that could happen. Battles were always either way too short or way too long.
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,537
Bay Area, CA
I hated the battle system with a passion. It feels so utterly disconnected with the action onscreen and complicated for its own sake. I did like the original Xenoblade's battle system, however.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,831
Eh, it's not really deep or satisfying. I guess destroying everybody with an upgraded Mythra is kinda fun but it's still really shallow.
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
Feel very MMO to me, even sorta has a GCD with how slow the arts fill up. Also way too many systems going on, there's about 2 different equipment menus, a skill tree, robot has an entirely different one plus it's own game to earn upgrades. honestly my eyes glazed over and I checked out. Bring on FF7 I say.
 

Jolkien

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,758
Anchorage/Alaska
One of the worst combat system I've played in recent years. Whoever though making gacha mechanic in a single player game should not be in charge anymore.
 

sn00zer

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,060
I'm 10 hours in and still trying to figure out what it wants. The metric ton of subsystems I turning me off entirely. Feels like the game has way to many levers to pull
 

LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
This is pretty much how I felt. Sure those combos were nice to pull off, but I felt like I was constantly waiting for my party to build their meters up, failing to do it in time most of the time. You really had to think about when you were going to use whatever art because there's a good chance none of your party members will have their meter up to to the next level. I found myself letting my party just grind out attacks for the first part of the battle, then I'd do the first art and hope I gave them enough time to hit the second, and I'd scramble to get my meter up to III.

That is if the battle wasn't over before any of that could happen. Battles were always either way too short or way too long.
One drawback is the uncontrollable nature of Driver Combos. You either have to sit waiting for your companions to use Topple/Topple-Launch with a Smasher or Topple yourself and hope that they finish it off. The bar goes down quickly and usually when you switch the right Blades won't be available in enough time. Trying to manage those along with Blade Combos is just too much for the relatively minor benefit unless you're smashing super bosses for cubes, not to mention that you have to build your party around Driver Combos vice Elemental Orbs/Chain Combos/General Utility(except Cutie Pie obviously).

The game also has the problem that the battle system is designed around endgame(very similar to FF13 and you see similar complaints about it being slow/simple here for most of the game), which is very valid, but I played so much of it that I don't even remember how it was during the story.

Adding to the bullshit gacha comments, I got KOS-MOS(rarest Blade) at around the 110 hour mark, and I was one of the luckier ones based on pull mechanics and drop rates. It's most peoples' last blade.
Driver combos are quite controllable.
Nia and Morag both have arts that break, beginning the chain, then Rex has access to blades that allow him to to all the other conditions (Topple-Launch-Smash).
You only need to depend on the characters for the first step, and the AI will always prioritize it if the art is available.

I had Rex with Pyra/Mythra (Topple), T-elos (Launch), and Roc (Smash), and with the other characters I could cover the entirety of the elemental types by the endgame.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,526
I still think Bravely Default has the best combat system, it adds a simple layer to the standard JRPG combat system that allows for way more types of interactions.
Seems like I'm alone on this though
 

xZoneHunter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
196
I still think Bravely Default has the best combat system, it adds a simple layer to the standard JRPG combat system that allows for way more types of interactions.
Seems like I'm alone on this though

You're not alone. It added a ton of strategy and was a real breath of fresh air for me when it came to turn based JRPGs.
 

Shadout

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,804
Probably my favorite combat system in an jrpg. Took a while for it to get going (but that is an issue in many jrpgs), but once it got there it felt great to play. Then add the huge amount of different characters to play around with.
I thought Torna was a downgrade though.
 

Heropon_

Member
Oct 31, 2017
342
All Xenoblade games have great battle system, XC2 and XCX on foot with Overdrive being the most fun, but XC1 was great too with Monado's visions. XCX in mecha was not very interesting and XC2 Torna was an interesting alternative.

However they all share the same issue that it's not really thinky, and that's why I usually prefer Turn-based battle system, my favorites this gen being SteamWorld Quest and Octopath Traveler.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
That's literally the EXACT way that you know someone didn't actually learn the combat system. You can make even the hardest battles end in literally seconds.
I think "you don't know how to play the game" is a bad counter argument. Maybe they still think it's slow for an actual reason. Besides when you are doing everything the tutorials teach you and are winning battles easily but they are just taking really long, that's more a flaw of the game design.

It's a slow battle system. Yeah it can get faster but not until you grind up all the various abilities to make it faster and optimize your builds to make it faster but that's the equivalent of saying Final Fantasy XIII opens up after 30 hours. I think it's made worse that things that aren't actually slow about it are made to feel slow. Playing it after Xenoblade 1 and X really highlights the slow battle pace.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I think "you don't know how to play the game" is a bad counter argument. Maybe they still think it's slow for an actual reason. Besides when you are doing everything the tutorials teach you and are winning battles easily but they are just taking really long, that's more a flaw of the game design.

It's a slow battle system. Yeah it can get faster but not until you grind up all the various abilities to make it faster and optimize your builds to make it faster but that's the equivalent of saying Final Fantasy XIII opens up after 30 hours. I think it's made worse that things that aren't actually slow about it are made to feel slow. Playing it after Xenoblade 1 and X really highlights the slow battle pace.
You're the second person to compare it to FFXIII I've seen and I don't get the false comparison there as you literally have zero control over your party aside from upgrade trees for a good chunk of the beginning of the game, and the party members and stuff are all locked for stuff for quite some time. It's hardly comparable, but I digress.

The "you don't know how to play the game" is a valid argument, but not one that's the player's fault. The Tutorials being convuluted and badly conveyed (And I'm a huge advocate for the game and its fight system) is a large part of that problem. Unless you're a mega nerd like me watching Enel's videos and making spreadsheets and shit on optimum setups and everything, it can be kinda tough sure.The amount of people asking what driver combos, blade combos, fusion combos, etc are is part and parcel for the game especially when you couldn't save tutorials without screenshotting them when the game launched.

But the moment you get Roc and can do a full driver combo at that point if you're still taking a long time to fight basic enemies that's because you're not playing it right, full stop. The only thing I'd say that would counter that is some of the boss designs where they will put a dps check or something in the middle of it like the Torna fight in the snow where they get OP at one point unless you do things right.

Again, people who say the battles take too long are either at the beginning of the game or not engaging with the system, it's as simple as that. If "too long" is the equivalent to a normal turnbased fight (which on average is what XB2 encounters end up being as time goes on) then I guess the game isn't for you.

However they all share the same issue that it's not really thinky, and that's why I usually prefer Turn-based battle system, my favorites this gen being SteamWorld Quest and Octopath Traveler.
Disagree here, because ignoring the timing element you can deep strategize fusion combos and team builds to solo bosses and/or create OP builds with the right blades on the right drivers. You may be able to "beat it" but the fight system rewards you for "thinking" for sure. I will always prefer turn based combat myself though for sure, and while I liked the job system of Bravely Default a lot I think Octopath had a better risk reward system in place and better synergy with the actions available.

Driver combos are quite controllable.
Nia and Morag both have arts that break, beginning the chain, then Rex has access to blades that allow him to to all the other conditions (Topple-Launch-Smash).
You only need to depend on the characters for the first step, and the AI will always prioritize it if the art is available.

I had Rex with Pyra/Mythra (Topple), T-elos (Launch), and Roc (Smash), and with the other characters I could cover the entirety of the elemental types by the endgame.
This is something that's overlooked a lot as well. You can even cheese the system in a lot of ways since the AI is predictable.

AI will always try to break first, so if you have a character that you want to shift between blades, take off the break arts or watch them repeat the same moves. For example I took off break arts for my AI controlled companions that weren't my designated breaker with the scopes and skills that make their break resist lower because then they'd only spam that art or not change blades at all. This is really bad for healers for example because they'll still try to break despite needing to heal sometimes.

AI will always try to complete a driver combo, so if you launch and they can smash, as soon as they are able they will change blades to smash.

This is especially great later when you get Tora's second and third blade who can do a whole combo on their own, and some quick swap accessories/customizations for Poppi.

I always played as Zeke and let Tora break, meaning I always did the middle two hits while until we got the light blade that gives everyone smash I let Rex smash with Roc because it was always reliable.

The AI will always prioritize Combos so you can use that as a reliable way to manipulate the drivers and AI and how they work. It's great.
 
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KCsoLucky

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,585
Driver combos are quite controllable.
Nia and Morag both have arts that break, beginning the chain, then Rex has access to blades that allow him to to all the other conditions (Topple-Launch-Smash).
You only need to depend on the characters for the first step, and the AI will always prioritize it if the art is available.

I had Rex with Pyra/Mythra (Topple), T-elos (Launch), and Roc (Smash), and with the other characters I could cover the entirety of the elemental types by the endgame.

After playing 185hrs(about 90 in NG+ endgame), I felt like it was always a waiting game and a crap shoot if you wanted to be able to pull them off in a "real" battle. It's fine for farming Ardanian Kurodil or what have you, but again it requires a certain focus, which is namely using the below average Roc over other Wind Blades that VASTLY out-do it(Zenobia, Fiora). With as many Rare Blades as the game has, there should have been far more options for Driver Combos, especially with how mundane it gets after the 50th+ hour farming to pull the last few.

Again, this can be sidestepped with Cutie Pie(and listening to meh-meh-meh-meh-meh-meh-meh every 10 seconds), but the options are still lacking when you look at just how many Blades there are versus Driver Combo paths.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
After playing 185hrs(about 90 in NG+ endgame), I felt like it was always a waiting game and a crap shoot if you wanted to be able to pull them off in a "real" battle. It's fine for farming Ardanian Kurodil or what have you, but again it requires a certain focus, which is namely using the below average Roc over other Wind Blades that VASTLY out-do it(Zenobia, Fiora). With as many Rare Blades as the game has, there should have been far more options for Driver Combos, especially with how mundane it gets after the 50th+ hour farming to pull the last few.
Corvin was a great addition because I believe he gave EVERYONE a smash art but he's DLC so I can understand why you wouldn't be on board with that.

The dependency on Roc was a HUGE issue in the meta of the game though. I think Morag had a smash art and Zeke had one but it took so unbelievably long (he had it on lance and had a huge lead up animation) that there was zero room for error for him, you have to be able t oswitch and use the art immediately or it'd never land in time unless you extended the duration of launch, which was kind of a crap shoot at times as well.

The "waiting" game part might be their affinity not being high enough with the blade reducing recharge/swap time and/or you can use quick swap accessories that allow for switching blades faster. If you use two wind blades Fiora/Zenobia and Roc I believe you can still get a full elemental spread on the rest of your blades, and there's lots of viable combos there. And if you have Corvin the possibilities are endless because not only do you have an amazing smash art but also a great blade in general with a lot of great passives.

That being said I always left Roc on Rex and let him do it with the blade equipment that increased drops or something (been a while) and he was ALWAYS on top of it. That being said I manipulated the AI and such so that he was always able to do so due to maining Zeke who before Corvin didn't have a reliable Smash.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
It's alright.

Dunno how it could ruin jrpg battles when it's not even close to the best.
 

KCsoLucky

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,585
Corvin was a great addition because I believe he gave EVERYONE a smash art but he's DLC so I can understand why you wouldn't be on board with that.

The dependency on Roc was a HUGE issue in the meta of the game though. I think Morag had a smash art and Zeke had one but it took so unbelievably long (he had it on lance and had a huge lead up animation) that there was zero room for error for him, you have to be able t oswitch and use the art immediately or it'd never land in time unless you extended the duration of launch, which was kind of a crap shoot at times as well.

The "waiting" game part might be their affinity not being high enough with the blade reducing recharge/swap time and/or you can use quick swap accessories that allow for switching blades faster. If you use two wind blades Fiora/Zenobia and Roc I believe you can still get a full elemental spread on the rest of your blades, and there's lots of viable combos there. And if you have Corvin the possibilities are endless because not only do you have an amazing smash art but also a great blade in general with a lot of great passives.

That being said I always left Roc on Rex and let him do it with the blade equipment that increased drops or something (been a while) and he was ALWAYS on top of it. That being said I manipulated the AI and such so that he was always able to do so due to maining Zeke who before Corvin didn't have a reliable Smash.

I typically mained Rex or Morag for most of my endgame. I actually didn't remember that Corvin gave an extra Smash. That's very cool, and I have all the Blades including NG+ and DLC ones. He's really good too so it's no issue doubling up with Mythra to use him. A lot of my ire is because there are like 15 blades that are "useless" which could have had more Combo attacks attached to their weapons(or maybe have each weapon type provide a single different combo attack for each character). I just don't think you should have to specifically build around such an important component of the battle system, since Fusion Combos is what gives it depth.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I typically mained Rex or Morag for most of my endgame. I actually didn't remember that Corvin gave an extra Smash. That's very cool, and I have all the Blades including NG+ and DLC ones. He's really good too so it's no issue doubling up with Mythra to use him. A lot of my ire is because there are like 15 blades that are "useless" which could have had more Combo attacks attached to their weapons(or maybe have each weapon type provide a single different combo attack for each character). I just don't think you should have to specifically build around such an important component of the battle system, since Fusion Combos is what gives it depth.
Agreed completely. I loved the idea of different blades having different arts on each character, but fishing for specific arts on builds was a pain later on. I felt like they tried to compensate with the DLC blades which ended with the DLC blades being super broken, or things like Poppi's multi-hit Break art that is so OP you can't not use it if you're fighting on the hardest difficulty.

Rex and Morag are great though. Shame they never gave Nia much to work with beyond Ether Cannons though :/ I gave her Fiora and Kosmos and I think the Dragon mech lady ether cannons and she did "fine" but it was by no means optimal.

To their detriment I think they overdid it when they did Torna and limited the player's option so much that we ended up with much less customization but more concrete builds. Something in the middle where you still have each character capable of doing multiple jobs (and not making Crit Healing OP as hell) would be great moving forward.
 
Nov 17, 2017
12,864
You're the second person to compare it to FFXIII I've seen and I don't get the false comparison there as you literally have zero control over your party aside from upgrade trees for a good chunk of the beginning of the game, and the party members and stuff are all locked for stuff for quite some time. It's hardly comparable, but I digress.
It's not a false comparison. You just fail to see exactly what I was comparing. I was comparing the defense of FFXIII's pace compared to the defense of XC2's battle's pace. I wasn't saying the games handled things in the same way just that it's a similar defense of "This thing you are complaining about gets better after X amount of time." And that's absolutely true. I'm talking about the fact that the battle system is slow and only can be made faster after putting lots of time into it.

I'm talking about things like how the characters move around slowly compared to past games or how you have to wait for all your arts to charge at the start of every fight when you just had them in the past two Xenoblades. Yes, there are ways to increase your movement speed and have your arts available right away but both require time and grinding that means most players won't have those until they are far into the game. Did Monolith Soft think 1 and X were too fast and they had to artificially slow it down? It gives me the same feeling Sonic and the Secret Rings does where Sonic starts out feeling nerfed and you have to unlock his speed and abilities over the course of the game to a point where he feels fun to play.

Even you admit the game doesn't explain how to speed up the battles to you very well. Like you said, unless you are very hardcore about optimizing things, the battle system simply does not become fast. It's more the game's fault than the players as you explained. You can go slow and the game typically does not punish you or become more challenging for it. Like even when fighting the HP sponges, you are slowly chipping away at health but so is the enemy. Unless I was punching above my weight class, I never felt like I was playing the game incorrectly, like the game was harder because I was slow. I think the slow way is the average way to play and the fast way is the advanced way. I would not say people complaining about the speed don't know what they're doing, I would say that this is the pace that Monolith Soft felt was fine for the average player and that's what I'm going to judge things by.

And yeah, I know about the various combos that exist in the game. I used them. Personally, I think they still felt very slow. It's the general set up nature of the battle system to me. There are a lot of other factors that make the game feel slow to me in general battle system and beyond but this reply is long enough. Maybe had I played XC2 as my first Xenoblade game I would not think that but coming from the previous games it just felt so much slower to me. To clarify, if the speed of the game suits you that's totally fine. I just found it frustratingly slow myself and I don't feel that I was playing the game wrong.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Detroit, MI
It's terrible. It's not even really as complex or deep as it may seem, it's just really bloated. The new elemental chains don't mesh with the previous mechanics they're meant to build upon. and once you have the full elemental chains unlocked, combat is very repetitive since you spend every encounter building up the exact same elemental chains.

XC2's combat system is fraudulent as fuck. It's a shallow system hiding underneath superfluous convolution disguised as complexity.
 
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Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,470
New York
I kind of hate it. It's tedious, slow and just boring. Every fight is the same. Normal battles are completely pointless and it's more or less in your best interesting to not fight them and just run away whenever possible and just focus on the major boss fights. It's not even hard to understand or get good at despite taking like 40 hours for them to actually introduce all the features. But even knowing everything and being good at doesn't make it remotely fun for me.

Game only became enjoyable, and I only bothered to came back to complete it, once the DLC options for Auto-battle and damage modifiers came so I didn't have to actually bother with the combat, turns out I was like only 5 hours from the end but whatever, and could just let the game do it all for me and I could just focus on the occasionally decent story beats and characters.

Torna I will say was a pretty significant improvement over the basegames combat, but still not something I would say is good or fun for me. I still eventually switched on auto-battle features.

Every Xenoblade game has had bad combat for me, among other things like character design/style. I like them despite all their weird issues, but it's severely holds them back for me. I really wish they would ditch it and go full real-time manual combat ala Tales of series instead of the weird MMO lite setup they keep going with. Auto-attacks and MMO style cooldown/build up abilities are not fun in singeplayer games like this. It's so detached and rote. Sure there's a lot of complexity to it for combos and setting up major damage streaks and what not, but that doesn't make it fun. Hell they could technically keep the same exact system XC2 has and just replace auto-attacks with manual Tales of style attacks and it would be significantly more engaging.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Already said it but it's the topic so it shouldn't bother people.
To me it was not fun at all because of Arts all being almost the same. The timing part fely out of place for a non Arpg.
I don't like to be constantly stopped by cinematics whenever I use Blade waza.
The group attack is so boring.

I really miss the tons of different arts (auras especially) and weapons feeling distinct.
X had dash and jump that were also pretty dynamic.

So I hope this was a one time thing because it's ruining the series, not other rpgs for me. It's anything but complex.
It's slow and has no depth beside some light Blade management, which btw is horrible thanks to gacha.

Oh well, we'll see.
 

trugs26

Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,025
I loved X's combat system a lot more. It felt more modular.

Whereas 2's system is way too linear. You have few branching options (2 at every point - a binary tree) and you go down similar branches over and over. Maybe the fact that they visualise the tree hindered it? I just felt like "ok I see the tree path I want to go on and now I'm on a linear path" since I'm restricted by the type of art I should be working toward. In X, I would change things up constantly.
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Detroit, MI
Already said it but it's the topic so it shouldn't bother people.
To me it was not fun at all because of Arts all being almost the same. The timing part fely out of place for a non Arpg.
I don't like to be constantly stopped by cinematics whenever I use Blade waza.
The group attack is so boring.

I really miss the tons of different arts (auras especially) and weapons feeling distinct.
X had dash and jump that were also pretty dynamic.

So I hope this was a one time thing because it's ruining the series, not other rpgs for me. It's anything but complex.
It's slow and has no depth beside some light Blade management, which btw is horrible thanks to gacha.

Oh well, we'll see.

Idk. XC2 was a huge success. I think they're going to be looking to emulate it with the series moving forward. Which is really disheartening because as much as I hate 2, I really like 1 and X.
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,083
San Jose, Costa Rica
I didn't like it at all. I actually got the DLC in part just because it allows you to customize the difficulty in various ways and, as part of that, set enemy HP values to their minimum (which is still too much oftentimes). Battles take SO LONG even when you know what you're doing because nearly every enemy is such an HP sponge.

I'm glad it really appealed to some, but I highly preferred XC1's battle system.

For a comparison:

I tried to beat XC1 3 times. 20+ hours each time. The battle system never clicked with me and it was always the main reason I could not force myself to keep playing. XCX actually did click a bit more but...

XC2 battle system was like crack to me. Everything just "clicks" in an almost rhythmic fashion. I can definitely understand what OP feels, once you are in the middle of things the flow is so good that other battle systems feel archaic-cumbersome-rigid in comparison
 

Haze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Detroit, MI
For a comparison:

I tried to beat XC1 3 times. 20+ hours each time. The battle system never clicked with me and it was always the main reason I could not force myself to keep playing. XCX actually did click a bit more but...

XC2 battle system was like crack to me. Everything just "clicks" in an almost rhythmic fashion. I can definitely understand what OP feels, once you are in the middle of things the flow is so good that other battle systems feel archaic-cumbersome-rigid in comparison

XC2s combat system can definitely be seen as rhythmic but it is also the very definition of rigid
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,950
Cornfields
It's terrible. It's not even really as complex or deep as it may seem, it's just really bloated. The new elemental chains don't mesh with the previous mechanics they're meant to build upon. and once you have the full elemental chains unlocked, combat is very repetitive since you spend every encounter building up the exact same elemental chains.

XC2's combat system is fraudulent as fuck. It's a shallow system hiding underneath superfluous convolution disguised as complexity.
I agree. Though idk if Torna maked it better.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Idk. XC2 was a huge success. I think they're going to be looking to emulate it with the series moving forward. Which is really disheartening because as much as I hate 2, I really like 1 and X.
Would they really just follow the easy way ?

I'm sure a game closer to 1or X could do well too. It's about advertising, word of mouth and so on. The Switch helps.
2 really got lucky with its release timing, following 1's succès d'estime (I don't have an English way to say it in mind right now).

As opposed to 1 at the end of Wii's not so rpg-focused life and X... well, Wii U, and not at its "best" time either.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,810
I like the stacking and options in XC2's combat system but I love Torna's even more. Torna's combat is more refined without losing any depth.
 

MaverickHunterAsh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,391
Los Angeles, CA.
For a comparison:

I tried to beat XC1 3 times. 20+ hours each time. The battle system never clicked with me and it was always the main reason I could not force myself to keep playing. XCX actually did click a bit more but...

XC2 battle system was like crack to me. Everything just "clicks" in an almost rhythmic fashion. I can definitely understand what OP feels, once you are in the middle of things the flow is so good that other battle systems feel archaic-cumbersome-rigid in comparison

That's awesome, and I've heard as much from some others too. It just never clicked with me, unfortunately. The battle system ultimately ended up feeling to me like an unwieldy, unnecessarily overcomplicated, chaotic mess, and the game did absolutely nothing to make me want to learn every last facet of it (let alone some). I'm super glad you and some others clicked with it, but yeah, I didn't like it and still don't. I'm glad thee ended up being options to minimize the difficulty of and time spent in battles, because for me, the less the better in this case. Different strokes!
 

MaverickHunterAsh

Good Vibes Gaming
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,391
Los Angeles, CA.
That's awesome, and I've heard as much from some others too. It just never clicked with me, unfortunately. The battle system ultimately ended up feeling to me like an unwieldy, unnecessarily overcomplicated, chaotic mess, and the game did absolutely nothing to make me want to learn every last facet of it (let alone some). I'm super glad you and some others clicked with it, but yeah, I didn't like it and still don't. I'm relieved there ended up being options to minimize the difficulty of and time spent in battles, because for me, the less the better in this case. Different strokes!
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,083
San Jose, Costa Rica
That's awesome, and I've heard as much from some others too. It just never clicked with me, unfortunately. The battle system ultimately ended up feeling to me like an unwieldy, unnecessarily overcomplicated, chaotic mess, and the game did absolutely nothing to make me want to learn every last facet of it (let alone some). I'm super glad you and some others clicked with it, but yeah, I didn't like it and still don't. I'm glad thee ended up being options to minimize the difficulty of and time spent in battles, because for me, the less the better in this case. Different strokes!

I would normally agree with you as I preffer direct and clear inputs-actions. Also, the first 3-4 hours of the game are actually kinda "cumbersome", but I think it was a necessary evil in order to maintain the eventual "rhythm-flow" of a full party with multiple blades throughout 95% of the game.

It HAS a lot of steps, it is NOT very well explained, but if you keep playing it and switch the blades/experiment a bit, you will eventually reach a "the sequence of buttons I'm pressing are actually creating something coherent and fun on screen" state. It should eventually click once you see and feel that feedback.