I don't know why I forced myself to finish the game, but I finished the game almost entirely on autopilot, and some battles took forever.
So long I'd just mute the game and read a book.
So long I'd just mute the game and read a book.
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Few years in, I think Xenoblade 2 has ruined JRPG battle systems for me.
- Thread starter WarpSpeedMolasses
- Start date
Since that deep dive Direct I always thought it rocked and doesn't seem as complicated as people say buuuuuut I have not played it.
On the other hand for some reason I decided to start XC1 instead of finishing my current games and I am seeing zero reason to praise it. Feels like half of the stats and dynamics are useless and it's extremely linear so far, with on/off switches fucking up stats (auras/purge) or in time limits (visions) to distract you of spamming DPS while filling your party gauge.
On the other hand for some reason I decided to start XC1 instead of finishing my current games and I am seeing zero reason to praise it. Feels like half of the stats and dynamics are useless and it's extremely linear so far, with on/off switches fucking up stats (auras/purge) or in time limits (visions) to distract you of spamming DPS while filling your party gauge.
Takes over 30 hrs to unlock the battle system. Yet people are fine with that but not FFXIII which didn't open up properly until 20 hours in so it's automatically a bad game
While it's a false equivalence, yes to have a game in a franchise built around ensemble casts limit your ability to mix and match casts and having most the characters as interesting as stale bread is different than a bunch of crazy anime hijinks on giant titans with a lot of free experimentation on builds from the getgo.
Sure the fight system doesn't open up "completely" until later, but that's because it builds upon it's new levels and skills and consistently delivers new elements that build off of them to acclimate new players. FFXIII story wise and content wise didn't open up until 20ish hours in. Completely different situation.
I know this forums hates the "you're playing it wrong" defense, but if your battles are that long and that boring you should consider either not playing or that you are in fact playing it wrong.
I thought the battles were okay in Xenoblade 2, but the system is way too unintuitive. It's one of the few games where I actually watched videos online so that I could figure out how to play the game, so I'll always criticize Xenoblade 2 for not explaining itself well enough. I thought that Xenoblade X suffered from a similar problem, but at least such guides are really only needed in Xenoblade X to figure out advanced techniques that are needed for super bosses; in Xenoblade 2, I couldn't figure out the basic techniques.
Anyway, once I learned how to do elemental combos, I thought that the battles were all right in Xenoblade 2, similar to the rest of the series (I view Xenoblade combat as "Final Fantasy XII combat but done right"). As far as the franchise goes, I most enjoyed fighting in Skells in Xenoblade X. Overall, I still prefer the systems in basically any turn-based game over the battle systems in the Xenoblade franchise.
Anyway, once I learned how to do elemental combos, I thought that the battles were all right in Xenoblade 2, similar to the rest of the series (I view Xenoblade combat as "Final Fantasy XII combat but done right"). As far as the franchise goes, I most enjoyed fighting in Skells in Xenoblade X. Overall, I still prefer the systems in basically any turn-based game over the battle systems in the Xenoblade franchise.
If you are fighting enemies at your level and doing it right then battles can be as short as 30 seconds or less. If it goes longer than 1 minute then I'm pretty sure you're missing something about the combat system. (Might not be your fault, the tutorials in this one aren't great)
Best jrpg combat system of the generation for me.
Once you understand all the mechanics it becomes incredibly satisfying.
Once you understand all the mechanics it becomes incredibly satisfying.
It wastes people's time until it finally opens up which sours the overall experience. Not to mention the gacha-like mechanics to obtain the rare blades.
It's baffling how far people are willing to defend this game.
I loved the battle system, but I definitely liked Torna's more, even moreso than Xenoblade 1. Even still though, I'm extremely hyped for whatever Xenoblade game we're getting next, whether it's Xenoblade 3 or X2 (although I didn't like X nearly as much as the others).
After falling in love with the first game, absolutely hating X in its entirety, then not giving 2 a chance due to the lukewarm reaction. I think Xenoblade 1 was just a singular anomaly and the team that's left doesn't understand what made the first game good.
I just want the developers to move onto different projects at this point.
I just want the developers to move onto different projects at this point.
You should play Baten Kaitos Origins, one of MonolighSoft older game, it's the same deal, the battle system is too good
The mechanics plus the dreaded blade gatcha and the fact that you can't easily transfer blades made this a slog until way way later on when you have enough blades to properly do combos. Even then if you wanted to level a different blade you had to set everyone. Combine that with the repetitive voiceover and ugh.
I wonder if there's someone that liked the whole food/arts aspect of this game too. That was the worst.
I wonder if there's someone that liked the whole food/arts aspect of this game too. That was the worst.
The game woulda been better if they let you have 3 accessory slots from the start. And they just unlocked the 2nd pouch slot through a story event. Some of the obtuseness of getting good stuff was unnecessary.
Stuff like the eyepatches and headbands are like broken good and I doubt people who optmized used anything like ice headband + hi tech eyepatch.
You destroy shit so fast with a good setup. I'm tempted to play from scratch just to show how easy it is to break shit.
Oh yeah, I fully admit I most likely was missing something. But like you said, the tutorials aren't very good and I just really didn't enjoy the battle system moment-to-moment in general, certainly not enough to put in the effort it takes to learn every facet of it. It also feels so much slower than in the first game, where you could auto-attack while moving. Rex feels like he moves more slowly than Shulk and co. did in battle, and I just never warmed up to having to stop for auto-attacks to activate. I get that's an important part of the flow in the second game's battle system, but oftentimes my eyes would just gloss over and I'd wish I could just get on with the story already. I don't know, just not for me I guess.
OP
OP
I had Baten Kaitos 1 on Gamecube, got halfway through it, (I remember especially loving the background art) but somewhere along the line I lost my copy. :(
I wish they'd release a 1 and Prequel collection :(
I'd say you owe it for yourself to at least try it. It can be divisive and not everyone's cup of tea, but if it clicks with you it's amazing. Despite its detractors, it has sold really well, reveiwed well, and I'd argue it's recieved really positively overall. "Lukewarm" is probably not accurate when it comes to its reception.
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To be honest, my favorite aspect of it was being able to turn auto battles on and off at will. If I wanted full control, I could have it, and by the same token, I could turn it off. Locking it behind a paywall sucked, and yes, so did the gacha blade mechanics. It really helped though in understanding effective strategies since you're still continuing to learn new mechanics heading into the last part of the game. LOL I'm in what I believe is the final third of XC3D, and I'm looking forward to hopping back into an XC2 NG+ run to have a fresh and direct way to compare the two games.
I mean I hate Gacha too but with the fact that they literally hand out cores I find it highly unlikely you don't have any "charity" blades from the list but knowing my luck you're that 1% with the worst RNG on the planet. That's still nonsense to me.
you should play Octopath Traveler
that game lets you set up some bonkers ass shit, it'll feel like you're breaking the game at times
that game lets you set up some bonkers ass shit, it'll feel like you're breaking the game at times
Doesn't sound right.
The game has a built-in 'pity' system, which means you can't not get a rare blade after a certain amount of time.
You get around 10 rare blades just making your way through the story too.
I thought it was ok, wouldn't register as one of my favorites or anything. It clicked for me pretty early in so I actually didn't struggle with the game or find battles to take too long, I just don't find the mechanics that enjoyable. Didn't dislike it enough to not finish the game or anything though.
Unraveling RPGs that go for multiple layers and interlocking components is something I like doing, but the Xenoblade games just don't approach it in a way I think is actually fun. I don't feel the level of satisfaction I get justifies the effort I put in, and I think half of the work involved in getting everything to come together is boring. There's something beyond increasing numbers and putting pieces together that makes this "subcategory" of RPG really interesting and fun to me, but the Xenoblade games stop just short of reaching it.
Unraveling RPGs that go for multiple layers and interlocking components is something I like doing, but the Xenoblade games just don't approach it in a way I think is actually fun. I don't feel the level of satisfaction I get justifies the effort I put in, and I think half of the work involved in getting everything to come together is boring. There's something beyond increasing numbers and putting pieces together that makes this "subcategory" of RPG really interesting and fun to me, but the Xenoblade games stop just short of reaching it.
I agree to an extent. I enjoyed X and 2 overall but they for sure don't live up to the original XC. I'm still waiting for something on the level of XC, Xenogears, or Saga III.
I thought it had a pity system like most gacha too but I still hate that I even have to say that. I will never defend the gacha stuff, especially with how unbalanced some of the skill trees are, but damn.
It did take a while to click, but once it did I loved the battle system.
I still feel there should be an battle area boundary for all the fights like the boss fights. It was kinda annoying fighting in high places and falling down because of the enemy and such.
I still feel there should be an battle area boundary for all the fights like the boss fights. It was kinda annoying fighting in high places and falling down because of the enemy and such.
I think its really fun. My personal problem with the game comes from a lot of the other design choices like field skills, some side quest requiring merc missions, things like that. Basically anything that makes the game feel like a Gacha game (including, of course, the Gacha system) I could really do without. I haven't been able to bring myself to beat this title.
I really, really do want to finish the game though. I'll probably make a thread in the future asking for help on how to smoothly go through this game because I'm sure there is a lot that I'm missing.
I really, really do want to finish the game though. I'll probably make a thread in the future asking for help on how to smoothly go through this game because I'm sure there is a lot that I'm missing.
Between 2, Torna and 1, we could have the ultimate combat system of all time. I like how 1 feels more frenetic thanks to being able to move and still attack, and Torna's switching system + simplified orb stacking is great too, just need to nerf chain attacks a bit as I feel they make it a bit too easy
Dont worry, we all do. Also if you didn't know, the combat system in Origins isn't the same from Baten Kaitos 1
I can understand why it bothers people, but I think I'm in the minority on here when I say I don't really care about the gacha.
If you're a completionist who wants all the blades, it's a ball ache no doubt about it.
But I just took what I got and rolled with it. Between the story and 'pity' system, you'll get enough blades to fill out a full party, so I never felt cheated.
I read an interview where a dev said one of the reasons they introduced the system was to make multiple playthroughs feel different. And while I don't think the execution of the idea is faultless, I like it as a concept.
I think a lot of people will just pop cores as they go, assemble a team and just enjoy their time with whoever they get.
It's also easy to farm cores and stack the odds in your favour if you want to get rare blades. But, much like a lot of Xenoblade 2, that isn't explained too well (if at all!).
Again, I get the frustration, but I'm pretty relaxed about it.
It was fine, all the setup was neat at first but after a while it just felt like even that was just being done on auto-pilot.
I think Valkyrie Profile 2 handled it best because there was no power difference (usually) to the various einherjar. They lock some of the most powerful things in the game behind the gacha and that's just not good to me. Having a bunch of different characters is one thing, but tangible power is held behind that barrier and I see it as a terrible concept as a result.
I pop a bunch of cores too, and while you may say it's obsessive to min/max or whatever there are several blades that are definitely more powerful and combined with the need for a separate hard to get item to transfer blades and possibly getting the wrong blades on the wrong drivers there's several reasons why it is as hated as it is, and as much as I absolutely love the game will not defend.
To know you could get a gimped Nia or useless builds on Morag and then they go and do what they do with Rex later in the story really screws over that concept entirely.
I definitely farmed for cores myself and NG+ and the season pass free items helped, but let's not pretend like the system is anywhere close to well done.
I mean, it fine to not like the game, buuuuut it's also 100% your own fault that battles took long?
Auto attacks do nothing but minor chip damage. If you actually play the battles and use the systems to do simultaneous art & driver combos, you absolutely fly through enemies.
Lukewarm reaction? Huh? It was rpg of the year for a ton of ppl. Its reception was overwhelmingly positive.
I don't see any other way to read the situation, frankly. One of the most brutal nosedives in quality for a franchise in history.
I wouldn't call it the worst, but the further you get into the game, the more it is obvious the system really doesn't have much depth.
A world where ninth on ResetEra's GOTY poll is considered lukewarm.
I used to be one of the people that trashed the high hp enemies and repetitive nature of the fights. But that was because I had no idea what I was doing (like I assume many of the posts that say the same) and once I finally dug into the system I realized it's amazing. Accessories and aux cores make a stunning difference. Not to mention actually finding good core chips. Learning how to driver combo on top of blade combo, and then putting them together into a fusion combo is amazing. Getting
adds another fun layer on top.
So you can then tie that all together and choose how you want to fight! Do you want to focus on stacking orbs quickly to chain attack and cause massive burst damage? Focus on driver combo'ing the enemy and keeping them locked and unable to attack the entire fight? Focus on Fusion combos so you get a nice DoT on top of keeping the enemy locked up? Or you could even focus on critical healing and using high crit driver arts to keep yourself topped off at full health the entire fight? There are other options too, these are just the ones I've tried.
Unfortunately the game takes a while to get going, and most of the equipment you need to do these builds comes in pretty late and requires farming (oftentimes superbosses). Going into NG+ with your character decked out on higher difficulties is amazing though! I think I've went through NG+ at least 3 times and plan on a 4th soon.
Also I didn't really like Torna as much, but I can see why some people like it better because it takes less effort to get to the "fun" combat.
Elma and using XCX's Overdrive
So you can then tie that all together and choose how you want to fight! Do you want to focus on stacking orbs quickly to chain attack and cause massive burst damage? Focus on driver combo'ing the enemy and keeping them locked and unable to attack the entire fight? Focus on Fusion combos so you get a nice DoT on top of keeping the enemy locked up? Or you could even focus on critical healing and using high crit driver arts to keep yourself topped off at full health the entire fight? There are other options too, these are just the ones I've tried.
Unfortunately the game takes a while to get going, and most of the equipment you need to do these builds comes in pretty late and requires farming (oftentimes superbosses). Going into NG+ with your character decked out on higher difficulties is amazing though! I think I've went through NG+ at least 3 times and plan on a 4th soon.
Also I didn't really like Torna as much, but I can see why some people like it better because it takes less effort to get to the "fun" combat.
I'm saying I have 3 rare blades I need left out of all of them *whoosh*
I just can't see how anything xenoblade 2 gets called the most amazing thing ever.
I did play it and I liked what I played but the hyperbole this game gets is weird.
The combat system is just autoattacking and picking colors as the action is available. It's unique but I still prefer the traditional turn based or traditional action combo based jrpg. I'd put xb2's combat under xb1 and I don't even like mmos.
I did play it and I liked what I played but the hyperbole this game gets is weird.
The combat system is just autoattacking and picking colors as the action is available. It's unique but I still prefer the traditional turn based or traditional action combo based jrpg. I'd put xb2's combat under xb1 and I don't even like mmos.
The pity system only works for certain blades (That are decided at the beginning of the game, when you save the game for the first time), one can go through 300 cores and never see KOS-MOS.