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Few years in, I think Xenoblade 2 has ruined JRPG battle systems for me.

WarpSpeedMolasses

WarpSpeedMolasses

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,396
I freaking love how everything just stacks and builds on top of eachother. It just feels so hype. Multiple Art levels, then an Art combo tree that lets you stack damage orbs, and chain special attacks. That's just the spoiler-free part. Not to mention stuff like topple, break, and launch.

It just feels like you keep upping the ante with what you do. I think people that wrote these battles off as "slow" didn't stick around to see what it flourishes into.

I got the game at launch and still come back to it and play it. It's been so great, and I haven't even touched Torna yet.

My only major complaints are the RNG with the rare blades, some of the field skills in relation to story progression, and the map system. The resolution needs work but 90% of the time I found it easy to overlook.

But man these battles. I'm weirdly super hyped for XB3 now.
 
Lunchbox

Lunchbox

ƃuoɹʍ ʇᴉ ƃuᴉop ǝɹ,noʎ 'ʇɥƃᴉɹ sᴉɥʇ pɐǝɹ noʎ ɟI
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Oct 27, 2017
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I still don't have like 3 blades at 300 HOURS such a shitty design choice.
 

Deleted member 426

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Worst battle system I've ever played to be honest. It's just lots going on to keep track of, masking the fact that it's hella shallow.
 
brinstar

brinstar

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Oct 25, 2017
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In endgame once you have a few affinity charts maxed and a bunch of shops owned the combat flows so good
 
RockmanBN

RockmanBN

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Oct 25, 2017
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I found it really shallow. You only needed to do one repetitive cycle to win almost 90% of the content excluding super bosses. Just get the orbs, smash them, and rinse and repeat if the thing doesn't die the first time.

Almost no thinking or planning needed what so ever.
 
Strings

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,378
It's alright, but I prefer the system of the original >.> Rooting you down to build autos really kind of tied their hands when it came to enemy design, and I wish they'd just gone full MMO with the entire thing (in terms of combat design).
 
MaverickHunterAsh

MaverickHunterAsh

Good Vibes Gaming
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Oct 24, 2017
1,390
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I didn't like it at all. I actually got the DLC in part just because it allows you to customize the difficulty in various ways and, as part of that, set enemy HP values to their minimum (which is still too much oftentimes). Battles take SO LONG even when you know what you're doing because nearly every enemy is such an HP sponge.

I'm glad it really appealed to some, but I highly preferred XC1's battle system.
 
Zolbrod

Zolbrod

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Oct 27, 2017
3,070
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The problem with the fact that everything, as you say, stacks on top of each other, is that even mob enemies have a shitton of health. They have to, because otherwise all of those combat features are completely useless. I think Torna actually did it way better, and makes combat a bit smoother and more fast-paced.

OG Xenoblade is still the king though.
 
ryushe

ryushe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,813
Agreed, OP. 250+ hours into the game and the combat never got boring to me.

SMD said:
The original battle system is better, because it encourages you to change up your party and even play as different characters. Also the gem system was surprisingly deep.
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I disagree. I've played through the first game twice and never felt encouraged to play different characters. Not only that, something about XB1's combat feels... too loose. It's not bad per se, but it doesn't feel as tight as XB2.
 
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Deleted member 8593

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I highly preferred Torna over XB2, simply because it doesn't take ages to get going.

My favourite this gen is Octopath Traveler though. So clean and so satisfying.
 

Deleted member 2791

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Yeah XB2 really has one of the best battle system ever made in a JRPG. Usually people finding it empty or shallow just didn't grasp all the complexities and mechanics at play.

It only really shines in long boss battles though.
 
Dnomla

Dnomla

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Oct 27, 2017
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It is very fun, flashy, and addicting. I love it.

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I really didn't like how they simplified it in Torna though. It was way too fast and easy to build up combos and blow everything away.
 
Mechaplum

Mechaplum

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Oct 26, 2017
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Torna's system is much better, I don't know but it's kinda boring even with all the layers upon layers. Auto-combat is just not my thing at all. I guess I very much prefer direct action over this and the QTEs.

Also goddamn it's the first JRPG where I muted battle voices entirely. Overall a chore.
 
Tibarn

Tibarn

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Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
I loved the system too, I know that it can feel repetitive, but when you start playing on higher difficulty levels or against super-bosses, I love the planning you need to do in order to create really broken blades (the DLC blades are specially fun to use, the scarf boy is one of my favorites).

Dardan Sandiego said:
My favourite this gen is Octopath Traveler though. So clean and so satisfying.
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This one too, it's really satisfying and creating good class combinations is a joy. I also loved the system in Cold Steel games, all the mechanics in the game feel relevant and fun to use.

I think that I enjoy battle systems that have a good balance between some complexity and a satisfying combat feel, even if a game has a rather shallow system I'd prefer it over a game that feels stiff or that uses systems that lack any impact. A good example is P5 vs DQ XI. The combat system in P5 is not that deep, but all the animations flow really well, the crits feel powerful and the team mechanics like baton pass feel a lot of fun. On the other hand, the classic approach of DQ XI bores me to tears, I know that there's lots of character builds and that it's polished and balanced, but the vanilla feel and the lack of any exciting mechanic makes me try to avoid as many combats as I can in the game.

Xc2 does a good job featuring some really good animations and interesting mechanics while beign quite deep if you're invested on the systems IMO.
 
texhnolyze

texhnolyze

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Oct 25, 2017
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Well, it's like MMO where you do the same rotations over and over again while watching your character do auto attacks. But what makes Xenoblade 2's combat system interesting (and different) is that you can change and experiment with your rotations with various blades combinations, it's like having all the possible classes at your disposal. However, I always hate the QTE parts in the battle system, ever since the first game.
 
.exe

.exe

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Oct 25, 2017
22,214
Zolbrod said:
The problem with the fact that everything, as you say, stacks on top of each other, is that even mob enemies have a shitton of health. They have to, because otherwise all of those combat features are completely useless.
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This is also my main criticism about it other than the tutorialization. It's an interesting system mechanically, but it wasn't worth all the issues it spawned. Once you wrap your head around it, it's not even that complex a combat system, just convoluted. There's something there that's worth streamlining and iterating on, but I wouldn't want to play another game with the same combat.
 
Mendrox

Mendrox

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Oct 26, 2017
9,439
Yeah it's a great system and I love it too. Torna is even better and the jazz battle music made it even more epic. Xenoblade Chronicles feels so dated when I play it now and it's boring af and does not flow as nice as this or Xenoblade X (which is way different, but also great as soon as you learn it).

Xenoblade 2 does not even have a difficult system. It's just much blabla, but the gist is easy if someone explains it to you. Playing it yourself is a must.

SMD said:
The original battle system is better, because it encourages you to change up your party and even play as different characters. Also the gem system was surprisingly deep.
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No...it doesn't do that at all and you don't need to do that once in the game to beat it.
 

Deleted member 19767

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WarpSpeedMolasses said:
I freaking love how everything just stacks and builds on top of eachother. It just feels so hype. Multiple Art levels, then an Art combo tree that lets you stack damage orbs, and chain special attacks. That's just the spoiler-free part. Not to mention stuff like topple, break, and launch.

It just feels like you keep upping the ante with what you do. I think people that wrote these battles off as "slow" didn't stick around to see what it flourishes into.

I got the game at launch and still come back to it and play it. It's been so great, and I haven't even touched Torna yet.

My only major complaints are the RNG with the rare blades, some of the field skills in relation to story progression, and the map system. The resolution needs work but 90% of the time I found it easy to overlook.

But man these battles. I'm weirdly super hyped for XB3 now.
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I thought the combat was interesting until I unlocked all of the mechanics. Then it became super repetitive and tiresome. I quickly got sick of it.
 
MattAces

MattAces

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Oct 25, 2017
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and yet they said Sekiro combat was like a rhythm game.

Xenoblade 2 was the real DDR of JRPG.


Edit: also god no... XC1 combat speed is not even close to XC2...
 
Abdiel

Abdiel

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Oct 28, 2017
850
Couldn't disagree more. It was a slog to get through. Even optimizing as much as possible, it felt needlessly overdone and even mundane battles would take longer than necessary because of how much health they had.
 
Gotdatmoney

Gotdatmoney

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Oct 28, 2017
14,487
Will never grasp people saying the battle system is shallow. Unlike many JRPGs its not just stats and equipment that make you good. This game is extremely execution heavy. I doubt many of the people trashing the battle system could beat Torna's Finest even on normal ignoring some of the other even more difficult challenges.

My fav JRPG battle system this gen is Octopath Traveler though. That shit is incredible.
 

Deleted member 33533

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Nov 17, 2017
12,864
I didn't really like it. You are never really engaged with the enemy (lol) just with your combos. Battles eventually all breakdown to doing the same special move combos to build orbs and then a big chain attack to break all the orbs for elemental burst. All battles end before you can achieve it or endwhen you achieve it, unless the enemy has a ton of health (which is common) and you have to do it again. Even the final boss fell to the same tactic, I just went through the same elemental burst combo I had been running half the game again. I never felt like I needed to look at what the final boss was doing, there's so much on screen anyway that you're better off just looking at the UI and doing the basic sequence. I felt like I was just going through the motions.

I much preferred Xenoblade X's combat system. It was snappier, more dynamic and enemies would keep you on your toes. I hate that they drastically reduced the speed of the battles in 2. Characters move like they're in water and can't attack unless they're standing still plus every battle starts with you waiting for your arts to slowly charge instead of just having them ready at the start. Enemies have a ton of HP too making random battles against basic enemies a long ordeal even when you aren't in any danger of dying.
 
tenderbrew

tenderbrew

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Oct 30, 2017
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Yah I think this game has one of the GOAT battle systems.

As others have said, Octopath is v good too.
 
mogster7777

mogster7777

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Oct 27, 2017
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The battle system was exactly the reason I was put off and shelved the game after 30 hours lol. Everything else about it was fine (apart from the terrible menus too) but the battle system just kept introducing mechanic after mechanic and it was so convoluted, up it's own ass and hard to make sense of with it's many systems within systems, that I just gave up in the end. The clunky slow hard to navigate menus didn't do it any favours either. The game felt slow because of the many systems tacked on top of everything when you're engaged in combat.

The game has like 10 different meters building up or to keep track of when you're in a battle. That's ridiculous in itself. You're looking at all the UI mess and clutter on screen all the time rather than the action just to keep on top of everything. How is that good?

This is coming from someone who has played JRPGs since the SNES days and seen them all all and understood stuff like Resonance of Fate pretty clearly etc.

XC2 is unapproachable to the extreme. I just couldn't keep on top of all the mechanics in place. I also didn't like the fact you have your moves cancelled if you ever moved in battle. Which restricts you unlike XC1 or XCX.
It's weird because XC1 and XCX has fantastic battle systems and I loved both games so was really looking forward to this but nope...it was just insurmountable for me as the battle system ruined the entire game for me. Extremely disappointing. I may try to go back to it as I loved the other two games and maybe I missed something but 30 hours i gave it a good chunk of time already....I doubt I'll have the motivation to continue from where I left off and remember everything.

All I gotta say is when you're still getting tutorials on different aspects to the battle system 30hrs in then you know there's a major design problem somewhere.
 
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Cudpug

Cudpug

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Nov 9, 2017
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Once you master it, there is a poetric rhythm to battles. The moment I knew the battle system was something special was when I found myself actively choosing to fight enemies. Often in JRPGs I find battles start to get repetitive, but in Xenoblade I was going out of my way to aggro foes.
 

Deleted member 33533

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Nov 17, 2017
12,864
RockmanBN said:
I found it really shallow. You only needed to do one repetitive cycle to win almost 90% of the content excluding super bosses. Just get the orbs, smash them, and rinse and repeat if the thing doesn't die the first time.

Almost no thinking or planning needed what so ever.
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Yep, even the final boss just took me doing the orb cycle twice to win. I didn't even really look to see what the final boss was doing, just to check what orbs I had already put on it haha. Too much of the battle system is long, long set up, waiting for things to charge, it's like setting up dominos to knock them down over and over and the only thing you really change is the color of the dominos.

I think the game designers though that difficultly meant how much HP the enemy had. So many fights last so long simply because the enemy is a HP sponge but that whole time you're chipping away, the enemy is barely damaging you or being a threat. I'd rather have an enemy that goes down fast but can also kill me quickly. Like someone here said, the battles are also probably so padded out because if they didn't last long, you'd never be able to use half of the systems because of how much waiting and set up they require. It really is just a slow repetitive battle system.
 
Ehoavash

Ehoavash

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Oct 28, 2017
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Yeha probably my favorite jrpg battle system ever

Also lol I'm the opposite with octopath, shit is Soo slow and annoying just to start a war random battle T_T
 
Nbz

Nbz

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Oct 26, 2017
469
UK
Alongside Final Fantasy XIII, this is my favourite battle system in a JRPG. Top tier.
 
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