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deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,207
Tampa, Fl
Pretty sure that's not true. Maybe you're talking about the JP equivalent, 2ch.

I was think you are right. I just mixed up the Chans.

what the fuck are you talking about??? o.O

she was enslaved just so she cant lie.

and when was she raped?

I'll admit I'm going off second hand knowledge at this point cause I noped the fuck out of Shield Hero.

I did just check my sources and your right she was not raped. Just permanently enslaved, renamed Bitch, and forced to serve the protaganist forever.

Much better fate, your right.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
I'm watching K-On for the first time and I'm not really sure what to think of it. Now in 2019 it comes across as a less-developed form of shows I love like Place Further than the Universe and Laid-Back Camp. It doesn't have the emotional stakes of the former or the comfiness of the latter.
Being honest, I didn't find K-On interesting back then. Think it was one of the few shows that made me fall asleep. Contrast with those two you mentioned that I really liked.

There are so many anime with great, non-sexual pandering mostly female casts. It frustrates me to no end those shows don't get the signal boost they deserve.
For folks looking for non-squicky anime:
Card Captor Sakura too. It also has a gay couple and I still believe Tomoyo is in love with Sakura. Perhaps the only complaint is that Tomoyo forces Sakura to wear costumes for capture the cards, but I don't recall them being offensive.

I want to mention Flip Flappers, I seriously do. It is another yuri with a good cast and awesome visuals, but there is a part in the transformation sequence of the two main characters that make me scowl. There is also another fact that goes into spoiler territory.
 

Geist

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
Subscribed. Finally a place where I can talk my hatred for how every combat uniform for women in anime include a short skirt.
angry-dwight.gif
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
I was think you are right. I just mixed up the Chans.



I'll admit I'm going off second hand knowledge at this point cause I noped the fuck out of Shield Hero.

I did just check my sources and your right she was not raped. Just permanently enslaved, renamed Bitch, and forced to serve the protaganist forever.

Much better fate, your right.

that is also not true, what the fuck

again, she was enslaved so she couldnt lie.

was sentenced to dead and the protagonist saved her by making her punishment been renamed bitch.

and she is not forced to serve the protagonist at all

she even tries to poison him once again

stop telling lies
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,706
what the fuck are you talking about??? o.O

she was enslaved just so she cant lie.

and when was she raped?
that is also not true, what the fuck

again, she was enslaved so she couldnt lie.

was sentenced to dead and the protagonist saved her by making her punishment been renamed bitch.

stop telling lies

Pretty sure they're talking about the original web novel, where she was enslaved, renamed Bitch, then sold to and raped to death by some no name noble or something.

Of course, I'm pretty sure all of that was toned down and/or changed in the light novel, then further toned down in the anime, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to support the series if that's how the author's writing is before an editorial staff intervenes.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Pretty sure they're talking about the original web novel, where she was enslaved, renamed Bitch, then sold to and raped to death by some no name noble or something.

Of course, I'm pretty sure all of that was toned down and/or changed in the light novel, then further toned down in the anime, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to support the series if that's how the author's writing is before an editorial staff intervenes.

they is talking about the anime

also you should not be talking about something with "seconhand" information..

also they says the web novel came out from 4chan or 2ch

that is also not true.

like what the hell
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,272
The author completely ignores all physiological faults of human beings when it comes to realistic strength, stamina, and speed for male characters like the protagonist. HOWEVER, once a woman is introduced in battle and NOW all of a sudden physiological traits that are specific to women like having their periods are central plot points to damsel them IN A FANTASY STORY?

If you can't acknowledge the layers upon layers of misogyny here then that's on you.
Then the first thing author does after casca was useless for over a decade is put her in a sexed up, frilly dress
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Subscribed. Finally a place where I can talk my hatred for how every combat uniform for women in anime include a short skirt.
angry-dwight.gif
Don't remind me of Space Battleship Yamato. All the men wearing proper uniforms. Women, meanwhile, were wearing a skin-tight uniform that made me angry. So fucking sexist. That immediately dropped the score of the anime. I could understand it perhaps in the original anime because it was made in the 70s or 80s, but not the remake.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,706
he is talking about the anime

also you can be talking about something with "seconhand" information..
....what? You know fan translations of the web novel are readily available via a google search, right?

And yeah, information about what happened in the anime and in the original light novel seem to be getting mixed up.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
....what? You know fan translations of the web novel are readily available via a google search, right?

And yeah, information about what happened in the anime and in the original light novel seem to be getting mixed up.

see my edit, it was "should not be talking"

i mean they are saying things as a fact when that's not the case.

there is plenty to criticize shield hero for, but it shouldnt be lies.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
I still can't believe there have been multiple wish fulfillment isekai stories where the main character engages in slavery, like the only wish fulfillment fantasy these authors can think of is having power over people.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
I still can't believe there have been multiple wish fulfillment isekai stories where the main character engages in slavery, like the only wish fulfillment fantasy these authors can think of is having power over people.

i cant talk for other animes but yeah, on shield hero, at least the other heroes tell naofumi that he is wrong for having slave people, but the anime ultimately tries to convey that slavery is not that bad when the master cares for his slaves, which is kinda bad,

i mean naofumi doesnt even knew filo and raphtalia to be SLAVES, he could just accept them to his party, like he did with those soldiers.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,660
If you want a surprisingly progressive Anime than Rakudai no Calvery is a nice one.

The main character is a bit conservative sexually and the Main Female is alot more forward than most anime women about what she wants once she is locked on the person she likes.
Also It has a regular side character who is a gay transwomen and is pretty much one of the squad. Everyone pretty much treats her like a women.

There is some fanservice but it goes both ways, The Main girl is seen in lingerie a few times and the main guy gets a few loving views of his abs. The Main girl gets some more scenes with main dude if only because she is sexually forward and aint afraid of using her body a bit to try and break the MC's sexually conservative values to be with her.

Doesn't the MC also get with the Main female character too, like not at the end but fairly early on? That like never happens. Usually it's a harem through and through.

-------------------------------

Regarding the Shield Hero talk.

The whole: "Did the original web novel have her be raped or not" discussion is honestly stupid since regardless if she was or wasn't...

She was still renamed Bitch and also put into fucking slavery.

Like regardless of the character, you don't need anymore to find that freaking awful.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,686
Being honest, I didn't find K-On interesting back then. Think it was one of the few shows that made me fall asleep. Contrast with those two you mentioned that I really liked.


Card Captor Sakura too. It also has a gay couple and I still believe Tomoyo is in love with Sakura. Perhaps the only complaint is that Tomoyo forces Sakura to wear costumes for capture the cards, but I don't recall them being offensive.

I want to mention Flip Flappers, I seriously do. It is another yuri with a good cast and awesome visuals, but there is a part in the transformation sequence of the two main characters that make me scowl. There is also another fact that goes into spoiler territory.

I will forever ship Sakura and Tomoyo. It was a great anime/manga to grow up on with the positive female characters. I really should get around to finishing the newer series.

I uh, try not to think about the teacher Terada and Rika relationship. >.>
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
I will forever ship Sakura and Tomoyo. It was a great anime/manga to grow up on with the positive female characters. I really should get around to finishing the newer series.

I uh, try not to think about the teacher Terada and Rika relationship. >.>
YMMV but I found it to be quite disappointing. I mean, the name is indeed Card Captor Sakura, but it is the same shtick as the first season of the original anime. I was expecting something more interesting and different than just capture cards.
 

GKSilKamina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,529
Festering Swamp, USA
And speaking of Berserk:

I've seen Miura and loli mentioned together, and a couple panels can be pretty off-putting. Thinking of:

Schierke and Isma.

First thing that comes to my mind is the short series Miura also did, Giganto Maxia. One of the two main characters in that one is a goddess/spirit/something that currently takes the form of a young girl. She likes to stand on the main character's shoulders which gives us several frames of the camera looking up her dress, and it's implied she isn't wearing underwear. Of course, under her dress heavily shaded so you don't see any detail aside from the outline of her body.

And the main joke (used several times) is that she can heal the main character's injuries by having him drink her bodily fluids. Her piss. So here you have a girl who looks ten constantly egging a grown man to drink her piss while she's standing above his head. It's baffling, gross, and at odds with the rest of the (mostly serious) story.

I love Miura but I'm hoping if he ever does return to Giganto Maxia he dials it back with the weird loli piss fetish stuff.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
First thing that comes to my mind is the short series Miura also did, Giganto Maxia. One of the two main characters in that one is a goddess/spirit/something that currently takes the form of a young girl. She likes to stand on the main character's shoulders which gives us several frames of the camera looking up her dress, and it's implied she isn't wearing underwear. Of course, under her dress heavily shaded so you don't see any detail aside from the outline of her body.

And the main joke (used several times) is that she can heal the main character's injuries by having him drink her bodily fluids. Her piss. So here you have a girl who looks ten constantly egging a grown man to drink her piss while she's standing above his head. It's baffling, gross, and at odds with the rest of the (mostly serious) story.

I love Miura but I'm hoping if he ever does return to Giganto Maxia he dials it back with the weird loli piss fetish stuff.

She's a thousand year old computer
 

Pellaidh

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,175
I'm watching K-On for the first time and I'm not really sure what to think of it. Now in 2019 it comes across as a less-developed form of shows I love like Place Further than the Universe and Laid-Back Camp. It doesn't have the emotional stakes of the former or the comfiness of the latter.

As someone who also recently started watching it, I think K-On is pretty good. It does have some issues, most notably with the teacher character, but also with how it deals with issues like bullying and social anxiety. But on the whole, it's still way better than most other anime out there. Although the fact that it's so harmless most of the time does make the bad parts really stand out when they happen.

I wouldn't really call it "less developed" either. Mostly because it's pretty much the only slice of life CGDCT show I've been able to watch. So I think it definitely does a lot of things better than more modern shows, both in terms of the comedy (which is really funny in places), as well as in the way it does storytelling. I'm also a huge fan of any show where the passage of time actually plays some sort of a role, and K-On does that really well.

And in terms of male characters, a reddit user for some reason decided to list every single one of them. And there is a lot. But at least as far as I've watched it, only two of them even get any lines (the music store salesman and Ritsu's brother).


Unsure where else to ask this question, but as a someone that grew up in the 80s and 90s I loved anime a lot, but over time I've been generally grossed out by how it depicts women. I've tried to get back into it now and then, but stuff like just reads really gross and creepy. What are some titles (movies, ovas, tv) from the past ten-ish years that take advantage of the technological jumps anime has seen without the types of characters and tropes I would find in Kill La Kill? (I've got Netflix and CrunchyRoll, but not afraid of buying discs)

In terms of technology as such, the core of anime production has't really changed that much over the years. Yeah, you have computer tools and CG now, but the actual animation is still mostly done with a pen and paper, just as it was in the 80s.

Some examples that actually use technology in interesting ways though, are:

Land of the Lustrous, which is a really great example of how to make a fully 3d GC anime. It does have some questionable shots now and then, but mostly it's pretty clean, and also features a cast of genderless characters, which is pretty cool.

Ganktsuou is a bit older than 10 years, but as this really cool look that it achieves by using weird computer generated textures instead of traditional coloring. Plus it's also a pretty good adaptation of The Count of Monte Cristo, so the story does hold up. Also features a pretty good depiction of a homosexual character, which is very rare for anime.

Mononoke is kind of similar to Ganktsuou in how it looks, and also pretty good story wise, although there's nothing really feminist about it. But it doesn't have any fanservice either.

For some other standout shows that don't really use technology that much:

Ping Pong is absolutely incredible. And despite it's name, it's a really good character drama, not a standard sports shounen.

Maquia is pretty much the best anime movie I've seen since Sword of the Stranger, and I'd definitely recommend it. No fanservice at all, and it has a very good female lead. I worte a bit more about it earlier in this thread, but overall I found the movie to be pretty much incredible.

Kaguya-sama is a very good example of a rom-com done right, without any fanservice whatsoever. But sadly the anime only has one season right now, so it doesn't yet adapt the parts that make the manga as incredible as it is.

Also as mentioned above, Mob Psycho. It's completely incredible.
 

robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,470
As someone who also recently started watching it, I think K-On is pretty good. It does have some issues, most notably with the teacher character, but also with how it deals with issues like bullying and social anxiety. But on the whole, it's still way better than most other anime out there. Although the fact that it's so harmless most of the time does make the bad parts really stand out when they happen.

I wouldn't really call it "less developed" either. Mostly because it's pretty much the only slice of life CGDCT show I've been able to watch. So I think it definitely does a lot of things better than more modern shows, both in terms of the comedy (which is really funny in places), as well as in the way it does storytelling. I'm also a huge fan of any show where the passage of time actually plays some sort of a role, and K-On does that really well.

And in terms of male characters, a reddit user for some reason decided to list every single one of them. And there is a lot. But at least as far as I've watched it, only two of them even get any lines (the music store salesman and Ritsu's brother).

Yeah I didn't mean to undersell the show. It's clearly very well-made and I'm having a good time with it. I suppose I'm a little frustrated that they aren't taking a deeper dive into the characters (by S2E6 where I am) after making them so likeable. Their depiction of the passage of time and the overall comedic chops of the show are good points. I've noticed and appreciated both of those as well.

Since he's been mentioned a few times already I wanted to directly ask, how do people feel about Ikuhara and his works? I've only seen Penguindrum (Utena is on my short list). I liked the show and appreciated his more casual, direct approach to sexuality, particularly queer sexuality, than most anime. On the other hand,
the show's only depicted lesbian tries to rape an under-aged main character.
So I'm still somewhat apprehensive about the guy from a feminist perspective, even if he's seemingly leagues ahead of his peers. I know Utena is kinda legendary from that perspective but without seeing it I can't comment. Do people generally feel that way?
 

peyrin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,408
California
Since he's been mentioned a few times already I wanted to directly ask, how do people feel about Ikuhara and his works? I've only seen Penguindrum (Utena is on my short list). I liked the show and appreciated his more casual, direct approach to sexuality, particularly queer sexuality, than most anime. On the other hand,
the show's only depicted lesbian tries to rape an under-aged main character.
So I'm still somewhat apprehensive about the guy from a feminist perspective, even if he's seemingly leagues ahead of his peers. I know Utena is kinda legendary from that perspective but without seeing it I can't comment. Do people generally feel that way?

Penguindrum is definitely his least queer work because it largely focuses on capitalistic society and how that breaks down familial bonds. I can't speak for Utena because I haven't finished it yet (I know I know, I promise I'll get to it) but Sarazanmai and Yuri Kuma Arashi are both seminal works in queer anime. Not only are there basically no straight characters in either show, but both have a lot of meaningful meta-commentary on the state of queer representation in media and how to break down harmful stereotypes surrounding them. Well worth a watch if Penguindrum's queer undertones interested you
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Came to recommend two great animes:
61S4hCBASFL._SX342_.jpg

About a woman who is a warrior for hire that does one last job before she retires. It is really awesome and if you want an anime with no fanservice scenes and a bad ass older female protagonist who kicks ass then this is for you. She could also be considered a cool mother as well.

The other anime would be Twelve Kingdoms:
The_Twelve_Kingdoms.jpg


About a teenage girl who one day meets a man that tells her she isn't of this world and needs to return to her original world because it needs her since she is a queen. From there you get one of the most satisfying character growth I have ever seen in an anime. First 5 or so episodes are about her still coming to terms with how the world works until she grows up and becomes a badass. This anime is basically isekai before isekai (RPG Sword Art Online bullshit) came. The world is also really interesting and magical/fantasy/asian mythology influenced. The anime is incomplete though as it is based on a novel series that are still being written and it was set up for more seasons that never came, and an arc remains unsolved (though it isn't a part of the main protagonist's story, more so another kingdom). Fear not though, it ends on a satisfying note and the last 4 or so episodes could be considered ova's about another kingdom's story.

Both of these are awesome and have great characters, interesting world and great music.
 
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Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,459
Just noticed this. I'll read through later.

Also, this this seems like the place to ask, is there anything of value to Berserk? Every brief exposure I've had to it seems awful to me and yet it's apparently heralded as some masterpiece.
 

peyrin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,408
California
Unsure where else to ask this question, but as a someone that grew up in the 80s and 90s I loved anime a lot, but over time I've been generally grossed out by how it depicts women. I've tried to get back into it now and then, but stuff like just reads really gross and creepy. What are some titles (movies, ovas, tv) from the past ten-ish years that take advantage of the technological jumps anime has seen without the types of characters and tropes I would find in Kill La Kill? (I've got Netflix and CrunchyRoll, but not afraid of buying discs)

I'm not too sure what you mean by technological jumps here - the biggest technological shift has been increased use of digital animation tools, although the hand-drawn workflow is still largely intact due to tradition. Studio Colorido is easily the industry leader with its digital animation workflow, all they have so far are lots of shorts and one feature film (Penguin Highway), but they're all really cool aesthetics you'd never see in the 80s or 90s.





None of their works have anything nearly as egregious as Kill la Kill (few things ever do), although Penguin Highway does have one recurring gag where the main kid makes occasional boob jokes. It's honestly more cute than problematic, though
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,396
My shout out goes to one of my personal favorite ongoing manga World Trigger. It's a slow paced battle/sports series fusion sort of thing with pretty good design mentality, characterization, and action relegated for it's female cast and for 179 chapters it hasn't really disappointed me on that front. It's available on Viz's manga service and don't watch the anime.
 

AoM

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,293
Just noticed this. I'll read through later.

Also, this this seems like the place to ask, is there anything of value to Berserk? Every brief exposure I've had to it seems awful to me and yet it's apparently heralded as some masterpiece.
Even with some of the questionable aspects, yup. It's considered by many (myself included) to be the best for many reasons.

Though given said questionable aspects, I wouldn't blame anyone for not giving it the time of day.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Never forget, Berserk used a woman's period as a plot device to make her inept at combat.

And of course she gets sexually assaulted in that same episode/battle.... And that's just the tip of the iceberg for that series.

I quite like this thread and a lot of examples but this is not what the scene is about at all. It ties into the hand of fate and how we dont get to choose who or what we are in every aspect.

Cascas feminity and how it is portrayed (especially with how hit over the head the reader is that "Casca is a woman and can be vulnerable in times when men arent") can definitely be criticized but I find this scene to be better than most scenes dealing with her womanhood.

________
Onto the thread, Im ADORING Carole and Tuesday, great change of pace. Watching Steins Gate 0 as well and while the OG handled anime tropes nicely, this sequel focuses too much on "waifuism" and that detracts from the overall plot.

My Hero Academia is very hit and miss. Its uncertain whether that annoying pervert character is supposed to come off as endearing or a shitstain of a human being at times.
 

Dandy Crocodile

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
I'm so happy Revue Starlight got a shoutout! BanG Dream is great as well in terms of having a fun cast of characters, most of whom get developed nicely, and there's very little fanservice, if any.
Particularly Revue. Strong queer coding! Friendship! Cool fights! Immaculate and meaningful staging and camerawork! Songs!
 

Deleted member 5593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,635
I quite like this thread and a lot of examples but this is not what the scene is about at all. It ties into the hand of fate and how we dont get to choose who or what we are in every aspect.

Of the literal millions of plot mechanisms storytellers have to convey a "negative hand of fate" choosing a women having her period is one of the most offensive means possible. In a thread about Feminist theory this example is another permutation of the trope done on female fantasy characters reducing them to their biological function. (Another example of this trope)

I'll just quote my previous response as to why this example is especially egregious in this context:
The author completely ignores all physiological faults of human beings when it comes to realistic strength, stamina, and speed for male characters like the protagonist. HOWEVER, once a woman is introduced in battle and NOW all of a sudden physiological traits that are specific to women like having their periods are central plot points to damsel them IN A FANTASY STORY?
 
Dec 28, 2018
902
Glad to see that there's a thread for this kind of topic here. Since I'm here just wanna say that The Promised Neverland has the best female cast out of any other manga in Shonen Jump. No fan service, female characters with prominent roles in the story, aren't treated as a second fiddle/inferior to the male characters, etc. Emma and Isabella are two of my favourite female characters in all of Shonen and probably will be for a long while.
My Hero Academia is very hit and miss. Its uncertain whether that annoying pervert character is supposed to come off as endearing or a shitstain of a human being at times.
I'd say it sadly leans more towards endearing than shitstain like it should. There hasn't been a single instance of him ever receiving any serious consequences for what he's done, it's always played for laughs. And Hirokoshi has said this about Mineta
tumblr_inline_p1jgx6JAQs1qlnf7w_500.png

So ya know. While the female cast of My Hero Academia isn't the worst I've ever encountered I'd say it's below average.
 

Kaivan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
Spring anime is coming to closure soon, isn't it?

I guess I should start reading some reviews. Though I haven't watched some of my to-watch list anime from the previous seasons too.
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
Dungeon Meshi is one of THE BEST Mangas being written currently and everyone should be reading it.

dungeon-meshi-021.jpg


Basically it starts off with a fairly simplistic plot. A group of Medieval adventurers get their asses handed to them by a dragon and they are out of supplies and money to go back and save/ressurect one of their members. So they decide to forage the dungeon itself for supplies while making their way back. While going through the dungeon we learn about the flora and fauna of the dungeon, the creation of it, magic and many monsters ....and eat them.

a7c853af77be88c8bcec44ee326a42bc1cdeb1d1_hq.jpg



The Manga is lighthearted and filled with humorous moments, but the truth about the history if the dungeon itself is far more sinister than it appears. The characters are well written and likeable and just plain well drawn.

The core of the book is basically cooking monsters, but the rest of it is more about discovery and what drives each characters ambition to reach their goal at the end of the dungeon.

DOJcleRXUAACE0w.jpg


There's plenty of cooking segments interspersed between every chapter with a neat little breakdown after every monster fight/event

29a03c793af5ffa37233197480cff2358b9b41c2_hq.jpg



meshi-1.jpg


Now another point is that the artist herself makes it a point to highlight the clothing and character design in a somewhat realistic fashion

Here's a breakdown of her though process when creating clothes for a character



And her approach to drawing female characters of mythical races

DH_717XXgAA0KEj.jpg
DH_717lWAAAY8X1.jpg



Please read Dungeon Meshi/Delicious in Dungeon and support the volumes releases.

I have had luck in getting at least half of my coworkers (Who are a bunch of professional chefs) to become fans of this series and two have gotten their wives hooked on it as well.
 

Mendrox

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,439
User Banned (2 Weeks): Defending misogyny
Doesn't the MC also get with the Main female character too, like not at the end but fairly early on? That like never happens. Usually it's a harem through and through.

-------------------------------

Regarding the Shield Hero talk.

The whole: "Did the original web novel have her be raped or not" discussion is honestly stupid since regardless if she was or wasn't...

She was still renamed Bitch and also put into fucking slavery.

Like regardless of the character, you don't need anymore to find that freaking awful.

Have you read Shield Hero or watched it? It could have been anyone in her position (well like some in the Novel are and they get what they deserve), but have you read what she has done? Getting renamed to Bitch is better than getting killed. After all that humilation she gave everyone and even her own family (who she wanted to kill too) she came away quiet good, because she has the slave crest only that she cannot lie anymore which is great for that shit character. It's also great when you know what else happens to that character and why everything happens, but that would be a big spoiler (not the webnovel that had other plans).

The only thing that irks me is that they talked about Raph and Filo having their crests removed, but they don't do that or rather they redid the seal (they already lost them once) because they get "extra exp". Otherwise their slave crests or status is never a thing again in the series.
 
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Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,459
Even with some of the questionable aspects, yup. It's considered by many (myself included) to be the best for many reasons.

Though given said questionable aspects, I wouldn't blame anyone for not giving it the time of day.

Yeah, based on certain things I've heard and seen, I'm giving it a definitive pass. Just aint for me.
 

Deleted member 1445

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,140
Way overdue, thanks for the topic OP! A lot of anime/manga fans are really in a world of their own. I feel like some of these works get praised for having good attitudes towards these matters, but it's really only because they're not as outright horrible, abysmal like the vast majority of most manga/anime. I mean, you have people arguing that Goblin Slayer isn't outright sexist and 100% full of objectifying women. Here on this forum you have people not seeing a problem with Baki even. And Baki is so bad when it comes to equality, it's pretty much Toxic Masculinity: The show.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,059
NZ
Shōnen manga, even those that aren't complete trashfires from the get go (*ahem*7 deadly sins*ahem*), tend to have issues with female representation. All too often they're overly sexualised for no reason, they get to do very little in the story, get damseled, or a combination of all of those.

Positive standouts in the Weekly Shōnen Jump at the moment are The Promised Neverland and Jujutsu Kaisen, which both have capable female characters and avoid needlessly sexualizing them. Just a shame about Sister Krone's design in TPN.

Otherwise, Radiant (manga not anime) does pretty well on that front and it shows, its fanbase in France is pretty even in terms of genders. The author is also actively interested in issues related to inclusiveness and representation and the manga has been getting better and better on that front. Lots of great female characters, including non-stereotypical non-White/East Asian characters which are sorely missing in the genre.

just a few of my favourite designs said:
 

Deleted member 8861

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I watched the second season of Kakegurui yesterday. It's marginally less of a trash fire than the first season in terms of representation but there seemed to be a character that seems to be handled either erroneously or just terribly in terms of their gender. It's weird. I have no idea how I was even intended to interpret it.
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
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Glad to see that there's a thread for this kind of topic here. Since I'm here just wanna say that The Promised Neverland has the best female cast out of any other manga in Shonen Jump. No fan service, female characters with prominent roles in the story, aren't treated as a second fiddle/inferior to the male characters, etc. Emma and Isabella are two of my favourite female characters in all of Shonen and probably will be for a long while.

I'd say it sadly leans more towards endearing than shitstain like it should. There hasn't been a single instance of him ever receiving any serious consequences for what he's done, it's always played for laughs. And Hirokoshi has said this about Mineta

So ya know. While the female cast of My Hero Academia isn't the worst I've ever encountered I'd say it's below average.
Before I dropped MHA, I noticed the main cast was almost all male. Gradually, any relevant female character became a supporting one, including Ochako.

As for Mineta, that fucker shouldn't have appeared at all. His only role in the entire series is to being a damn perv.
 

teague

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Dec 17, 2018
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Have you read Shield Hero or watched it? It could have been anyone in her position (well like some in the Novel are and they get what they deserve), but have you read what she has done? Getting renamed to Bitch is better than getting killed. After all that humilation she gave everyone and even her own family (who she wanted to kill too) she came away quiet good, because she has the slave crest only that she cannot lie anymore which is great for that shit character. It's also great when you know what else happens to that character and why everything happens, but that would be a big spoiler (not the webnovel that had other plans).

The only thing that irks me is that they talked about Raph and Filo having their crests removed, but they don't do that or rather they redid the seal (they already lost them once) because they get "extra exp". Otherwise their slave crests or status is never a thing again in the series.

I think you're missing the point of the criticism here. (As I said I've watched most of the first season and read the same amount of the manga). When the writer of the web novel was creating the story, they decided that the protagonist should be a (male) holder of (female) slaves. Male power over women is portrayed as a normal, unremarkable part of the world. (In fact, the people who object to Naofumi's owning slaves, for example the nobles who find it 'distasteful' for what appear to be racist reasons, are quickly shot down by Naofumi's bullet-proof excuse "you accused me of being a rapist and you're mean to me so I can do whatever I want). Furthermore, it was a conscious decision on the part of the writer that the main villain would be a stereotype of female sexual manipulation and two-facedness, which is a common misogynistic trope.

So here is what is already baked into the thematic content of Shield Hero, at a level prior to the story: women are better off as property, because otherwise they will be manipulative (sexually), two-faced etc. etc. These are, I would like to point out again, incredibly common misogynistic tropes, and you can find them in all kinds of defenses of "traditional gender roles" (which is a form of subjugation of women).

Defending what happens to the villain because of what she does in the story misses the point that the criticism is targeted at the conception of the story itself. No one required the writer of the webnovel to have a major focus of the story be the enslavement of women, and in fact I and presumably a large number of people would probably prefer that stories depicting the subjugation of women either not exist or, at the very least, treat that subjugation as bad. (See the Handmaid's Tale, for example).
 

Snack12367

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Oct 28, 2017
3,191
What do you all think about rape and it's depiction in Anime? Personally I tend to be really put off an anime that shows this, because it'r really rare that I see an anime that handles it well. Actually I can't think of one. I think Anime is in this weird period regarding sexual assault, that film was in the 1980s. Just look at Death Wish or other films of that era, women were raped often, just to give the protagonist a reason to go kill and be heroic.

Follow up question are there any anime's where sexual assault is handled correctly?
 

Alice

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Nov 2, 2017
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Doesn't the MC also get with the Main female character too, like not at the end but fairly early on? That like never happens. Usually it's a harem through and through.

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Regarding the Shield Hero talk.

The whole: "Did the original web novel have her be raped or not" discussion is honestly stupid since regardless if she was or wasn't...

She was still renamed Bitch and also put into fucking slavery.

Like regardless of the character, you don't need anymore to find that freaking awful.

Not to mention the "She'll be named s**t whenever in the services of an adventurer!!!", it was just completely icky. The MC is hailed as this amazing, awesome saviour when he steps in and gracefully forces the bitch and s**t names on her like he's the most merciful man in the universe. That's disgusting.

Even if you don't mind the "fake rape accusation" and "slave owner with a heart" tropes, the MC just comes off as the biggest fucking asshole ever in that scene.

He also does something similar earlier where he berates the other heroes about how "shortsighted" and bad freeing people from despotic tyrants is, because oh no, those people don't know how to live without tyranny.

It's a pity that show is having so much money thrown at it.
 
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What do you all think about rape and it's depiction in Anime? Personally I tend to be really put off an anime that shows this, because it'r really rare that I see an anime that handles it well. Actually I can't think of one. I think Anime is in this weird period regarding sexual assault, that film was in the 1980s. Just look at Death Wish or other films of that era, women were raped often, just to give the protagonist a reason to go kill and be heroic.

Follow up question are there any anime's where sexual assault is handled correctly?
What I can say is the use of sexual assault in anime have always been used for a device of the MC to act on and they never bring it up or show the character who was harm from it showing them recover. Goblin slayer is the obvious example with how the first episode went.
 

teague

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Dec 17, 2018
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He also does something similar earlier where he berates the other heroes about how "shortsighted" and bad freeing people from despotic tyrants is, because oh no, those people don't know how to live without tyranny.

Wow, it's a testament to how much problematic shit there is in this show that I 100% forgot this even happened
 

Deleted member 8861

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What do you all think about rape and it's depiction in Anime? Personally I tend to be really put off an anime that shows this, because it'r really rare that I see an anime that handles it well. Actually I can't think of one. I think Anime is in this weird period regarding sexual assault, that film was in the 1980s. Just look at Death Wish or other films of that era, women were raped often, just to give the protagonist a reason to go kill and be heroic.

Follow up question are there any anime's where sexual assault is handled correctly?
I've personally never been put off by its depictions so far. But that's because I'm desensetized to a lot of things and can accept they "belong in the world" (sort of) at face value, though I don't claim I can understand them better than people who find issue with it.