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signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,186
Vice
Washington Post - A cache of records shared with The Washington Post reveals that agents are scanning millions of Americans' faces without their knowledge or consent.

Agents with the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Immigration and Customs Enforcement have turned state driver's license databases into a facial-recognition gold mine, scanning through millions of Americans' photos without their knowledge or consent, newly released documents show.

Thousands of facial-recognition requests, internal documents and emails over the past five years, obtained through public-records requests by researchers with Georgetown Law's Center on Privacy and Technology and provided to The Washington Post, reveal that federal investigators have turned state departments of motor vehicles databases into the bedrock of an unprecedented surveillance infrastructure.
Police have long had access to fingerprints, DNA and other "biometric data" taken from criminal suspects. But the DMV records contain the photos of a vast majority of a state's residents, most of whom have never been charged with a crime.

Neither Congress nor state legislatures have authorized the development of such a system, and growing numbers of Democratic and Republican lawmakers are criticizing the technology as a dangerous, pervasive and error-prone surveillance tool.

"Law enforcement's access of state databases," particularly DMV databases, is "often done in the shadows with no consent," House Oversight Committee Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) said in a statement to The Post.
Rep. Jim Jordan (Ohio), the House Oversight Committee's ranking Republican, seemed particularly incensed during a hearing into the technology last month at the use of driver's license photos in federal facial-recognition searches without the approval of state legislators or individual license holders.

"They've just given access to that to the FBI," he said. "No individual signed off on that when they renewed their driver's license, got their driver's licenses. They didn't sign any waiver saying, 'Oh, it's okay to turn my information, my photo, over to the FBI.' No elected officials voted for that to happen."
The records show the technology already is tightly woven into the fabric of modern law enforcement. They detailed the regular use of facial recognition to track down suspects in low-level crimes, including cashing a stolen check and petty theft. And searches are often executed with nothing more formal than an email from a federal agent to a local contact, the records show.

"It's really a surveillance-first, ask-permission-later system," said Jake Laperruque, a senior counsel at the watchdog group Project on Government Oversight. "People think this is something coming way off in the future, but these [facial-recognition] searches are happening very frequently today. The FBI alone does 4,000 searches every month, and a lot of them go through state DMVs."
The records, which include thousands of emails and official documents from federal agencies, as well as Utah, Vermont and Washington state, show how easy it is for a federal investigator to tap into an individual state DMV's database. While some of the driver photo searches were made on the strength of federal subpoenas or court orders, many requests for searches involved nothing more than an email to a DMV official with the target's "probe photo" attached. The official would then search the driver's license database and provide details of any possible matches.
Asked to comment, the FBI referred The Post to the congressional testimony last month of Deputy Assistant Director Kimberly Del Greco, who said that facial-recognition technology was critical "to preserve our nation's freedoms, ensure our liberties are protected, and preserve our security." The agency has said in the past that while facial-recognition searches can provide helpful leads, agents are expected to verify the findings and secure definitive proof before pursuing arrests or criminal charges.
Vermont officials said they stopped using facial-recognition software in 2017. That year, a local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union revealed records showing that the state DMV had been conducting the searches in violation of a state law that banned technology involving "the use of biometric identifiers." The state's governor and attorney general came out against the face-scanning software, citing a need to balance public safety with residents' privacy rights.

In the years before the ban, the records show, Vermont officials ran a number of face scans on driver's license photos at the request of ICE agents. Investigators from a number of federal and local agencies emailed the state's DMV with facial-recognition search requests as they pursued people accused of overstaying their visas, providing false information, stealing from stores or, in at least one case, being part of a "suspicious circumstance."
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I'm glad some politicians and activists are coming out against this stuff. The potential for abuse is too great and tech is far from perfect regardless.

Hopefully we can get a nation wide ban on using facial recognition by law enforcement.
 

Landy828

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,396
Clemson, SC
Sorry about laughing at the OP title, but it made me chuckle.

Who would have guessed facial recognition would find a "gold mine" in a huge database of...uh....faces...which it is designed to recognize. Felt like an Onion moment to me.

Wasn't there a case where some guy looked EXACTLY like someone he had never met before, and people couldn't believe it when they both were in the room at the same time?
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
This practice is a massive violation of the rights of millions of Americans. Disgusting practice, lawmakers or the courts need to shut this down because law enforcement are basically conducting illegal searches and bypassing the courts entirely.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,583
Sorry about laughing at the OP title, but it made me chuckle.

Who would have guessed facial recognition would find a "gold mine" in a huge database of...uh....faces...which it is designed to recognize. Felt like an Onion moment to me.

Wasn't there a case where some guy looked EXACTLY like someone he had never met before, and people couldn't believe it when they both were in the room at the same time?
I was gonna say lol, seems like a bit of a "no shit" statement.
 

Atisha

Banned
Nov 28, 2017
1,331
I read their sales pitch about why - fighting for freedom - or whatever star spangled bologne they gave, but i have to wonder what would really be the motives for doing this? And then there's the point about this happening on the dowlow, in secret, because well, they quite frankly know, that they aought not to be doing it, and will 'maybe' cause a stir but they go ahead and do it anyway.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Asked to comment, the FBI referred The Post to the congressional testimony last month of Deputy Assistant Director Kimberly Del Greco, who said that facial-recognition technology was critical "to preserve our nation's freedoms, ensure our liberties are protected, and preserve our security."

It seems if you're trying to justify illegal surveillance, you can just toss around some combination of those buzzwords
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,660
I thought they already had all of our shit with that thing that collected everything? It's just another after-the-fact bullshit that police will use to force people into plea deals.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
It doesn't help that facial recognition software negatively impacts minorities in a much more significant manner, but I suppose that's probably not seen as a bad thing for either of this organizations.

Hot garbage.
 

Masseyme

Banned
May 23, 2019
379
I assumed they already had on demand access to this stuff which seems accurate. There's very few pieces of information I give to my local govt that I don't think the Feds would have access to if they simply sent an email or something.
 

HeySeuss

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,845
Ohio
Your BMV photo is public record though, just like your address and a lot of other sensitive information.

Anyone can take your car's license plate number and go to the BMV and find out almost anything they wanted to know. About the only thing protected is your social security number, but even that can be found if you know where to look.
 

AndreGX

GameXplain
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
1,815
San Francisco
Asked to comment, the FBI referred The Post to the congressional testimony last month of Deputy Assistant Director Kimberly Del Greco, who said that facial-recognition technology was critical "to preserve our nation's freedoms, ensure our liberties are protected, and preserve our security.

How can he not see the contradiction there?

Get Fucked Mr. "We have to violate your liberties to protect them."
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
How long until DNA is registered at birth? Although we're willfully paying to give our DNA to companies in exchange for the information that 0.7% of me is from Papua New Guinea.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,403
Several states, if not all, use facial recognition scans of their DMV database to capture individuals who have multiple fraudulent IDs under different aliases. These cases are then prosecuted at the state level.

I do wonder if the federal government can legally access DMV data? It is after all public record.
 

HeySeuss

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,845
Ohio
Many large chain department stores use facial recognition too. They even use it to track how long the average person stands at certain displays for targeted advertising.
 

Kibbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,418
I just renewed an hour ago, there was an option to opt out of them sharing information, tho I assume that's for something unrelated

Anyway, I had assumed they've been doing this forever. It's the shit you see on tv crime shows all the time lol
 

GodofWine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,775
Become a pastafarian, and wear a colander on your head, multiple problems solved.
 

HeySeuss

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,845
Ohio
Not doubting it but how?

It's actually because the algorithm uses point markers on your face to do a bunch of math on distances from eyes to nose, eyes to mouth, chin size and shape, etc. The darker the complexion the harder it is for the algorithm to map your facial features from the footage. Even the best camera the software has trouble reading.

This results in a lot of false positives for minorities. It has less to do with the programming and more to do with the technology not being advanced enough yet.