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Shyotl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,272
Yes, call out a foreign community as "Barbaric" but don't think about the millions of dolphins and whales that capitalism has killed.
Ah yes, you are very smart. Yes, capitalism. The true cause of all animal suffering. Can't think of a single non-capitalist society that kills wildlife at all. Nope. Especially not whales or dolphins. None. Be anticap or you like killing dolphins and have no right to complain!

Humans have been fucking entire ecologies since we first learned agriculture and FWIW I don't think you'd find a many in this thread that are okay with killing dolphin and whale regardless so I can't tell where you're going with this aside from being a whataboutism, never mind most posters here being from a nation that doesn't contribute much to this anyhow. Do you suggest we overthrow Peru and Nigeria to enforce restriction on their local economies?

What a weird tangent. Especially strange using a massive killing not spurred by 'capitalism'... as a springboard for it.
 
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PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,610
"It's tradition"

Awful. Some traditions aren't meant to be kept up.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,270
Whale and dolphin hunting always seems expressively brutal. From the images this seems identical to the dolphin hunting in japan
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,814
I read this comment on another site:
Unless people there still live in abject poverty and face literal starvation if they don't kill tons of dolphins, I don't see how this has much bearing on the discussion here. It's 2021, not 1021. Assuming living standards there match Denmark, and given its HDI of 0.95 it surely does, they got supermarkets where they can eat whatever they want all day. Killing thousands of animals like this is just a form of entertainment for them. You don't even need to argue about vegetarianism, this is evil under any perspective.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
I would like to see these kinds of slaughters end. I generally am against whaling, unless it's necessary for survival. Dolphins in particular are smart enough to where, having seen them interact with each other and humans, I'm not comfortable eating them. The same way I wouldn't eat a chimp, or a gorilla, or an orangutan. There are plenty of dumb domesticated animals to consume instead.

This is abhorrent, but remember that "not-as-cute" animals are slaughtered in their millions daily as well.

If you are able to, please consider adopting a plant based diet and avoid using animal produce to help eliminate animal suffering.

Being against the killing of dolphins has nothing to do with how cute they are and everything to do with how intelligent they are. They have a capacity for suffering that, to me, merits consideration.

"No", to the rest of this post, no, and this kind of vegan evangelizing is unwelcome and unnecessary in this discussion.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,896
While I do think that the Grindadrap should be at the very least heavily regulated and eventually limited/stopped, the way some of you are calling it barbaric is a little aggressive imo. Like, the original reasons for the whaling was because of the lack of natural resources and food on the islands, which then gave birth to this tradition. Doesn't make what it is today any better, but this wasn't a tradition born from a bunch of vikings going "Fuck yeah I want to kill dolphins!".

It's still pretty upsetting. And them being so isolated makes breaking these kind of traditions difficult. With the very graphic images paired with every story about this, it doesn't exactly make the international community more willing to understand the culture either. From what I've gathered, most Faroese people don't really seem to care much about what foreigners think, anyway.

It is absolutely barbaric. Just because it's confirming to a tradition that doesn't change anything. And fuck the moral relativism and culture nonsense. There are objective perspectives here if you have any ounce of humanity.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
So, a few things:
  • It sucks because we know dolphins are super intelligent.
  • However, they were going to use them for food.
  • But it sounds like they slaughtered more than they needed for food and a lot will go to waste.
But like...as a meat eater I do all that to. Or outsource it so to speak.

Cows aren't dumb, despite their kind of dopey appearance. Neither are pigs.

And the way things work a lot of meat is thrown away.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
I'm curious (and you don't have to answer as isn't a bit off topic, but I'd welcome if you did), where do you draw the line, considering the intelligence of (for example) pigs?

Pigs are supposedly quite intelligent but I've never been impressed by one I've seen irl, not like a bottlenosed dolphin or killer whale, so I do eat pork without discomfort. I'd be willing to reconsider this in the future.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,494

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,006
If it was one dolphin caught and killed every minute that would be 23.8 hours of sustained slaughter and you expect me to believe that it's all done humanely?

Fucking vile.
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,853
So, a few things:
  • It sucks because we know dolphins are super intelligent.
  • However, they were going to use them for food.
  • But it sounds like they slaughtered more than they needed for food and a lot will go to waste.
But like...as a meat eater I do all that to. Or outsource it so to speak.

Cows aren't dumb, despite their kind of dopey appearance. Neither are pigs.

And the way things work a lot of meat is thrown away.
Would this come down to domesticated animals vs wild animals being slaughtered. Sustainability and application of slaughter with the dolphins...
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
I would like to see these kinds of slaughters end. I generally am against whaling, unless it's necessary for survival. Dolphins in particular are smart enough to where, having seen them interact with each other and humans, I'm not comfortable eating them. The same way I wouldn't eat a chimp, or a gorilla, or an orangutan. There are plenty of dumb domesticated animals to consume instead.



Being against the killing of dolphins has nothing to do with how cute they are and everything to do with how intelligent they are. They have a capacity for suffering that, to me, merits consideration.

"No", to the rest of this post, no, and this kind of vegan evangelizing is unwelcome and unnecessary in this discussion.
Pigs are very intelligent as well, but we still eat those and treat them like garbage.
 

Schreckstoff

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,606
Excessive and wasteful for sure but I don't see why they'd have to abandon it entirely if it can be done somewhat more ethically.
 

Deleted member 4614

Oct 25, 2017
6,345
Would this come down to domesticated animals vs wild animals being slaughtered. Sustainability and application of slaughter with the dolphins...

Maybe sustainable isn't the right word for animal agriculture. The CO2 emissions and sheer land use are enormous.

But yeah, I think if we want to treat dolphin slaughter as a heinous crime it gives pause about other kinds of meat consumption.

And I don't think it's a strong rebuttal to say it's whataboutism, it's a natural direction for the conversation to head.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,214
Canada
Yes, call out a foreign community as "Barbaric" but don't think about the millions of dolphins and whales that capitalism has killed.

C'mon. Heh, I'm glad you care, but this is the wrong way to do it.
whnuvoh4od031.jpg
 

Cugel

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,412
Again another monstruosity in name of tradition or religion.
 
OP
OP
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,941
I read this comment on another site:
That's interesting, but the account of that person who has never been to one differs from the veterinarians who watched this and said the average kill took over 12 minutes. Not instant, as that poster claims.

And was it really only licensed whalers doing the killing? How many of those are there? Because that's a hell of a lot of dolphins.

I wonder how much of it they eat, because of the mercury I'm assuming not much.
 

BrokenIcarus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
444
I think there is a big difference between slaughtering domesticated animals raised for that reason and killing a wild animal for no reason.

You're not only killing them but you're destroying part of that whole species and hurting the biodiversity and possibly the ecosystem

Would this come down to domesticated animals vs wild animals being slaughtered. Sustainability and application of slaughter with the dolphins...

So y'all would be okay if instead we domesticated millions of dolphins just to slaughter them?
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,669
Yes, call out a foreign community as "Barbaric" but don't think about the millions of dolphins and whales that capitalism has killed.
Don't worry, there's bunch of Western, modern, political, white Christian conservative traditions that I wouldn't mind seeing dead. IMO, it ain't just "foreign" traditions considered "barbaric" that's on the chopping block. There's plenty of room on the slab all the other shit. And hell, unchecked Capitalism is something I've always felt NEEDED to die.
 

Jinroh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,189
Lausanne, Switzerland
When you masquerade murder as tradition and people show their true nature.

Don't tell me someone murdering animals with a knife for half an hour is mentally sane. It just reminds me of shit like ISIS, it's abhorrent. And they involve kids in this while bathing happily in blood...
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
I feel like there is no rational reason why we have the "pig exception". We just do.

And it's not whataboutism to bring it up in a thread where we're understandably aghast at the mass slaughter of another intelligent even-toed ungulate.
 
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The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland
I don't recommend the faint of heart searching about the "event" but they literally turned the shores red with the blood from the dolphins. It looks surreal.
 

Wein Cruz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,772
I feel like there is no rational reason why we have the "pig exception". We just do.

And it's not whataboutism to bring it up in a thread where we're understandably aghast at the mass slaughter of another intelligent even-toed ungulate.

Of course it's whataboutism 🙄
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,639
Pigs are supposedly quite intelligent but I've never been impressed by one I've seen irl, not like a bottlenosed dolphin or killer whale, so I do eat pork without discomfort. I'd be willing to reconsider this in the future.

Not slaughtering something by how impressed you are on a surface level is a pretty weird metric. They're well known as one of the smarter animals.
 

GungHo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
6,126
Pigs are supposedly quite intelligent but I've never been impressed by one I've seen irl, not like a bottlenosed dolphin or killer whale, so I do eat pork without discomfort. I'd be willing to reconsider this in the future.
What trick would it need to do to pass your test?
 
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Sheepinator

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
27,941
If they're so interested in tradition, they should be using sailboats instead of high power boats and jetskis.
 

KimiNewt

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,749
So y'all would be okay if instead we domesticated millions of dolphins just to slaughter them?
You can't domesticated millions of dolphins, domestication is something done to a species throughout many generation. If you're talking about taming - that is, capturing wild animals and making them docile, then that is obviously wrong as well.
 

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,766
Unless people there still live in abject poverty and face literal starvation if they don't kill tons of dolphins, I don't see how this has much bearing on the discussion here. It's 2021, not 1021. Assuming living standards there match Denmark, and given its HDI of 0.95 it surely does, they got supermarkets where they can eat whatever they want all day. Killing thousands of animals like this is just a form of entertainment for them. You don't even need to argue about vegetarianism, this is evil under any perspective.

You've got to keep in mind there is a real problem with richer countries filming other cultures out of context and then defaming and belittling their practices.

There's a massive power imbalance there, the Faroe Islands don't get to pass comment on the massive wastefulness of Thanksgiving in the US or danger and increased pollution of bonfire night in the UK.

That isn't to say any country or group should just be able to do whatever they want but every country has it's traditions and all of them will be defensive over them.

I think there is useful context in the Guardian write up:

"...the scale of the killing was such that even many Faroese, who frequently view the hunt as part of their cultural heritage, expressed disgust.

Heri Petersen, who chairs the local Grind hunting association in the bay where the killing took place, said that far too many dolphins had been herded into the bay over too long a distance, with too few people waiting on the beach to kill them, prolonging their agony.

'I'm appalled at what happened," he told the local In.fo news site. "The dolphins lay on the beach writhing for far too long before they were killed."'


This was a particularly poorly organised culling and it is being rightfully lambasted for it but normally it seem smuch smaller in scale and more humane. Certainly as much as factory farming.

As others have mentioned, if we are going to raise and kill pigs and cows, I really can't criticize other cultures killing animals that they actually eat. The ohpins are probably much more efficiently consumed more than the mountains of meat that are thrown away in my own country.

As long as they are not an endangered species I don't want to march into a country I don't know and demand they cut themselves off from their heritage because I like the animal they happen to eat.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,814
You've got to keep in mind there is a real problem with richer countries filming other cultures out of context and then defaming and belittling their practices.
I see your point, but I don't think culture and heritage is much of an excuse in this instance. (and as a minor point, the Faroe Islands have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world. This isn't by any definition a poor country)
The context of this article is the sheer scale of what happened, and the fact that even locals there aren't happy about it proves that point. If it's just done for the sake of tradition, I don't see how you can't just scale it way, way down, and limit it a handful of animals.
And while I have no moral qualms about eating meat, I think the very least we can expect is that animals are killed quickly and efficiently, which seems hard to ensure about this practice, as it needs people to be able to precisely attack the central nerve systems of animals.

And of course it goes without saying that just because I'm calling out this practice, I'm not ignoring how problematic our consumption of meat is. It's not good for the climate, we waste a ton of it, it's often done under horrible conditions -- outright illegal even -- , and that's not to mention how unhealthy eating red meat in particular even is. But I don't think that's directly connected to what happened here and I hope this event leads to some discussion in the Faroe Islands on how to balance tradition with the the need to avoid needless harm and torture for wild animals.
 

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,766
I see your point, but I don't think culture and heritage is much of an excuse in this instance. (and as a minor point, the Faroe Islands have one of the highest GDP per capita in the world. This isn't by any definition a poor country)
The context of this article is the sheer scale of what happened, and the fact that even locals there aren't happy about it proves that point. If it's just done for the sake of tradition, I don't see how you can't just scale it way, way down, and limit it a handful of animals.
And while I have no moral qualms about eating meat, I think the very least we can expect is that animals are killed quickly and efficiently, which seems hard to ensure about this practice, as it needs people to be able to precisely attack the central nerve systems of animals.

And of course it goes without saying that just because I'm calling out this practice, I'm not ignoring how problematic our consumption of meat is. It's not good for the climate, we waste a ton of it, it's often done under horrible conditions -- outright illegal even -- , and that's not to mention how unhealthy eating red meat in particular even is. But I don't think that's directly connected to what happened here and I hope this event leads to some discussion in the Faroe Islands on how to balance tradition with the the need to avoid needless harm and torture for wild animals.

The GDP may be high but opportunities are still dominated by the fishing industry and a lot of young people still have to leave to diversify their opportunity.

It's not a dirt poor country but it's not a major international player. It's a small state with it's own culture, which by it's geography, has to be different to mainland Europe. I suppose, the point I was making, is that it is enjoys a novel outlook the cultural orthodoxy forced on the world from the white, English speaking Western world. Different enough that we should be careful about demanding what they can and can't do.

I agree, hopefully it is scaled down and it sounds like, under normal circumstances, it is a much smaller event but one that still provides for many families in a country still dominated by it's fishing industry. As in, they still have a very real connection to the sea and what it provides. I certainly wouldn't attempt to stop Inuit people from hunting whales, once I deemed they had enough food otherwise.

My connection between the negative effects on meat eating and this isolated incident is less about the direct comparison of methods and morals and more on the reaction these images produce.

A sea bathed in blood is a horrifying image but in reality it's an isolated event, rather than a regular way of hunting. A social media campaign demonizing people engaging in their heritage is not an effective way of getting a message across, yet this is what it feels like the reporting on this story generates.

Also, I could not possibly argue the counter point of our treatment of pigs and cows by someone defending this hunt, especially as I don't know the details of it's place in Faroe Island life. That's my worry, that it's easy to see an image and debase a foreign culture when I know equal or worse goes on at home. If I have a problem with colonialism then I might have a problem with how these kinds of cases are handled, despite my general abhorrence to the killing of whales and dolphins.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,814
My connection between the negative effects on meat eating and this isolated incident is less about the direct comparison of methods and morals and more on the reaction these images produce.

A sea bathed in blood is a horrifying image but in reality it's an isolated event, rather than a regular way of hunting. A social media campaign demonizing people engaging in their heritage is not an effective way of getting a message across, yet this is what it feels like the reporting on this story generates.

Also, I could not possibly argue the counter point of our treatment of pigs and cows by someone defending this hunt, especially as I don't know the details of it's place in Faroe Island life. That's my worry, that it's easy to see an image and debase a foreign culture when I know equal or worse goes on at home. If I have a problem with colonialism then I might have a problem with how these kinds of cases are handled, despite my general abhorrence to the killing of whales and dolphins.
That's a very good point, thanks for bringing it up. I think you changed my mind on this a bit, in that ultimately this is a single event, not something they are doing very regularly.
I still hope that they can avoid such extreme cases in the future.
 
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Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
It's very difficult to speak on the Faroese because whenever Danes call them out on their absolute horse shit they always hide behind "tradition" or say that you're racist. They have an awful lot to say for an island that is entirely dependent on daddy Danmark.
 

crazy monkey

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
1,198
Are dolphins they are Slaughtering endangered species? We do much worse everyday to millions of more aninals. We waste even more than that and that is daily.
 

J2d

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,140
User Banned (1 Week): Hostility, Mod Whining
Lol at the warning and ban, I guess some meat eating mod got offended.

I'll gladly take mine you trash.
 

Bardeh

Member
Jun 15, 2018
2,700
I just don't understand AT ALL why they needed to kill such a vast number of animals. There is no way all that meat gets eaten - it's just a senseless waste of life and it makes no sense whatsoever. They slaughtered the animals simply for the sake of killing. Fucking sick.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,325
Lol at the warning and ban, I guess some meat eating mod got offended.

I'll gladly take mine you trash.
I'll take a warning and/or ban too I guess. If someone's okay with or financially supports traditional western meat practices but not this slaughter, they don't care about the animals they care about exerting smug superiority over other cultures.