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Fanbyte: Portrayals of Latinx Characters in 2020 Video Games Already Have Me Tired [See Staff Post]
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That would mean something completely different.
Edit: I say this because I think of the example of names. Sometimes someone's name cannot be translated, because that is their name. It does not cross languages or have a direct translation. I do not believe that Latino translates into Latin and have the same meaning when referring to someone from Latin-America. Out of respect for the intended individual or culture, the native language or words have to be used to elicit the same definition.
A single word can have multiple definitions, and Latinx cant even be easily pronounced in many of the romance languages, making it seem even more like something created by a white english speaker.
Let me know when people start yelling at you to "Go back to your country" because you had the audacity to speak your language. Then we can talk about how "it's just language."
Ustedes dicen que no queremos ser inclusivos pero varia gente ya han dando ejemplos de como lo podemos lograr usando nuestro propio lenguaje. Nadie que yo conozco usa "latinx" porque no suena bien en Español. No sé porque ustedes no escuchan envés de tratar de forzar a nuestra gente a usar una palabra creada por americanos para describirnos.
That's in english... (See why is hard to comprenhend?)
In Spanish, Latin is the ancient language.
For food or music, we normally refer with the country of origin, like: Rock Argentino, Samba Brasilera, la Cumbia (Colombiana, Venezolana, etc.), comida peruana, chilena, boliviana, etc.
When I tried to response to your post (or Saduj post), was assuming my understanding of the word from the Spanish language, not in English (where 1 word has so many uses/significatives).
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Your parents can use whatever inclusive word will replace latinos. It doesn't have to be latinx. But in english spaces latinx is the word being used if you want to be specifically inclusive and aware of other identities similar to how some might say womxn or folkx to be more inclusive.
It's really not that hard to understand.
I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.
Even when talking to non-Spanish-speaking people? I am familiar with Hispanic people mixing Spanish with English when speaking with other Hispanic people, but with those who only speak Enlgish? I don't see it happen. Maybe in a joking manner.
I was gonna say the same but didn't want to push Poodlestrike too hard after I called out the South Americans bit. I know their intentions are good but I'd really like to see a source that points to it being a commonly used term.
I thought we were talking about the word latinx, though. You know what's not that hard to understand either? That people not in Latin America can't realistically modify the language of people living in Latin America. Feel free to think it's just bad faith, though.
I agree, "latin food" is putting things in a broad scope that it completely ignores the specifics of what someone is referring to, like Asian (or used to be Oriental many years ago but is no longer used because it's not the proper term) cuisine... Type that into Google maps when searching for a restaurant and see the specific food you want, like Tex-Mex, Argentinian, Cuban, Vietnamese, etc...
Yeah even with non spanish speaking people. I hear it a lot at work from the nurses and some of the patients. Of course not all my friends talk like that, but some do. Some of my co-workers are Korean, and they talk like that too sometimes. Mixing English and Korean.
Great post, as a Catracho my self I don't like the term "Latinx" but I understand that for the LGBTQ+ community could be very important so I think it's worth discussing and exploring.
The purpose is to make it less gendered and inclusive. How you achieve that doesn't really matter. In the US latinx is the biggest which is why it's seeing so much use in english speaking spaces and it's here to stay.
If the x is just too much for you to be inclusive but you would be open for another non-masculine word to refer to latin people then that's fine too I guess.
There's a restaurant near where I live that has a whole branding of "mixed latin food" since they seasonally change up their menu by doing their chef's takes on food from other South American countries + Mexico some times.
....
The discussion regarding Latinx has been fascinating for me as someone who works in Higher Ed. It's honestly the first time I've seen open conversation with folks who don't feel represented by it. While we are very much a PWI, about 25% of our students identify as part of the population, and its through our work with professionals of color that we've utilized Latinx terminology in the development of support communities for the students.
Appreciate the conversation and folks talking about their experience and feelings towards it of different identities and locations around the world.
Appreciate the conversation and folks talking about their experience and feelings towards it of different identities and locations around the world.
Is this new latinx term supposed to refer to people who live in South / Central / Caribbean? or is it for those who moved to live in USA / Europe/etc.? it does sounds like something a non native Spanish speaker would come up as if trying to "fix" our language, and I don't mean like on a inclusive way but a general type. At least here in Colombia I see written with an @, like latin@s, chic@s, etc.
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The general perception in Latin America is that we don't need to change the language. For a native English speaker it might sound off to use a gendered term, but literally every noun in our language is gendered. Have other Romance languages already changed? Is it also not okay to say français / française?
Here in México I have read both latinx and latine, (and equivalents for other words) with the latter being a more common word lately. I think eventuallly will have mainstream presence because words ended with "e" would be more natural than with "x", at least in spanish.
Personally I prefer inclusive words ended with "e", but I don't mind to see the other words.
Yes, that totally happens. I think the artificialness comes thru when it's random normal words, like they just wrote the script and randomly translated every third word, and it happens a lot in media.
The awkward truth here is that Spanish is a deeply deeply deeply gendered language. It's true that Latinos is a 'gender neutral' plural, but it also just so happens to be the male plural as well. Every noun has a binary gender, even things. And there hasn't been a linguistic approach to gender neutrality that has caught on yet. Latin@s, latines, latinx could all conceivably be the best way to do it, but there's little agreement between the people looking to de-gender the language... and that's not even getting into the large conservative group that sees the efforts as PC Overreach
Yeah same. I feel like it's something that has popped up recently in the last few years. Obviously it might be older but I've only ever rarely started to see it online like a couple of years ago if at that and usually not from Hispanics.
Also I've never heard anyone use that word in person here in the states and definitely not in Mexico. Definitely not a popular term.
The last thing I would want is to tell other Latin American to "Speak English", fuck that. But there is certainly room to accept the latinx term. Let's not pretend that just because they are Americans they themselves represent the subjugation of the United States on Latin America.
Sure it is not a term that should be used in Spanish, let alone forced on Latin Americans, but do not believe for a second you are "punching up" when you are criticizing the term just because it has its origin in the United States.
Sure it is not a term that should be used in Spanish, let alone forced on Latin Americans, but do not believe for a second you are "punching up" when you are criticizing the term just because it has its origin in the United States.
I work with a lot of college-aged young adults in California - for many Latinx is the preferred term as it is gender neutral.
I call myself Latino - but, I liken this to gender pronouns; people should be free to choose their term.
On-topic, yikes at Far Cry 6.
I call myself Latino - but, I liken this to gender pronouns; people should be free to choose their term.
On-topic, yikes at Far Cry 6.
Reading into this, one article I've found portrays a lot of French men, specifically, as VERY hostile towards attempts to even feminize parts of the language.
It looks like the inclusive forms do like "ami•e•s".
Your clear ignorance of history of any central or south american country is dazzling.
Doesn't matter how brazilian natives achieved independence and democracy.
Doesn't matter how chileans achieved better economy during the 70s.
Doesn't matter if people are not allowed to speak for themselves as long someone bigger tells them what to do.
Let's just look at results.
Yeah I've literally never heard this IRL or even from people talking casually online, I only ever see it on this articles and other things like this.
I helped draft the staff post, and our point is that it is a commonly term used by some Latino communities in the United States. That's not to say that is universally used by everyone of Latin American ancestry or origin will have have heard of used it.
I was born in Colombia and raised in the United States. For reference, pretty much every single Latino friend I have uses the word Latinx. In my experience, it has very popular use in United States based Latino academic, tech, and art spaces. It's not surprising to me that the author the article uses it considering that video games are very much in the intersection of tech and art.
I myself use different words depending on the group I'm in.
The term was started by people living in the US who speak the same language as people living in Latin America. They can't modify their own language? Just look at the first page where people are arguing against the existence of latinx at all and framing it as something invented by white people
Any effort to make words, with which different people have to identify themself, less gendered is a pretty good start I would say. Some said latine is already rather common so just use that. And in english discussions we will keep using latinx.
Also, what's with people wondering if the word is being used? Just type latinx into twitter and you will get another tweet of it every second.
Thanks for the in-depth explanation! Makes a lot of sense and as an American, it is hard to see what influence you have when you're the one doing it (similar to privilege, go figure).
Also, I hope someone here* didn't post the article on that hate subreddit.
Latinos in the US use quite a lot of "anglicismos" that are not used in Latin America, their language changes due to English influence. "Me voy para atrás a parquear la troca" is not going to become a thing in Latin America, and latinx isn't going to, either.
Higher-ed already gives you some selection bias, and I would presume this is an American university? Most of the people objecting to the term are not from the US.
If you were to come to Puerto Rico and started using the term "Latinx," 99% of people would look at you funny. Unless you went to one of the big universities or something, where it has more acceptance, but even then it won't be overwhelming or anything. I graduated from one of the biggest universities in the island (and a hotspot for political activism), and even there very few people used the term, though most were aware of it.
I'm sorry but this just makes the "South American" error even worse. Two people looked over the staff post, one a Latina herself, and y'all just completely forgot Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America existed, in a thread about Latin representation? I knew Latin issues here are a bit of an afterthought but sheesh...
We speak like this in Puerto Rico! Though we would say something like "Me voy a palquear el tro'" ("tro" being how we would pronounce "truck")
It's honestly the same thing, just on a different... field? I guess? Dunno if there is much literature about the relationship of privilege and cultural imperialism in that sense. It's something I've only started understanding a couple years ago.
TBH that one's on me. I wrote the initial draft, and nobody else caught my error.
Which is why progressive latin americans created latine to use as a gender neutral form. But this doesn't mean that latinx should not be used at all, which is what people have been arguing for.
Latine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Latinx
At least that one is pronouncable.
Sure, I didn't catch the error and I should have. I'm sorry about that.
If there's something I hope people take away from this, it's that the US-born/US-resident Latino cultural experience is different from the cultural experience of Latinos living outside the US. Not lesser or in any way less important, but nonetheless different. There are issues affecting the latter that do not affect the former, and vice-versa. And just because the former might more readily accept the term "Latinx," it doesn't mean that the latter will as well. Also: as English speakers, you only ever get to hear what the former has to say. And that won't change unless you start venturing into non-English spaces.
Yup.
As has been said, a lot of people use Latinx. Their terms for themselves are just as valid as your terms for yourself.
That's certainly true. You only ever get a small slice of the pie.
But... most of the discussion hasn't really been about that, no? It's not like the person using the term here was an ignorant white person addressing issues affecting groups outside their own.
Latinx is definitely not common in my circles. I'm of Dominican descent.
I think those that use it mean no harm. So it doesn't trigger me if people use it. I don't use it myself, however.
I'm not a fan of this guy, but he brought some sources:
Though Latinx is becoming common in social media and in academic writing," a recent Merriam-Webster "words we're watching" entry noted, "it is unclear whether it will catch on in mainstream use." And last week a progressive pollster ran the numbers and found that it hasn't caught on at all: "Despite its usage by academics and cultural influencers, 98 percent of Latinos prefer other terms to describe their ethnicity. Only 2 percent of our respondents said the label accurately describes them, making it the least popular ethnic label among Latinos."
www.nytimes.com
That's an overwhelming majority that doesn't use Latinx as a self-descriptor.
And this was not too long ago.
I think those that use it mean no harm. So it doesn't trigger me if people use it. I don't use it myself, however.
I'm not a fan of this guy, but he brought some sources:
Though Latinx is becoming common in social media and in academic writing," a recent Merriam-Webster "words we're watching" entry noted, "it is unclear whether it will catch on in mainstream use." And last week a progressive pollster ran the numbers and found that it hasn't caught on at all: "Despite its usage by academics and cultural influencers, 98 percent of Latinos prefer other terms to describe their ethnicity. Only 2 percent of our respondents said the label accurately describes them, making it the least popular ethnic label among Latinos."
Opinion | Liberalism’s Latinx Problem (Published 2019)
Why is Elizabeth Warren describing Latinos with a term that few would use themselves?
That's an overwhelming majority that doesn't use Latinx as a self-descriptor.
And this was not too long ago.