Ah, true - corrected.Just wanted to say, South America is not ALL of Latin America. You're excluding México, Central America and the Caribbean here.
Ah, true - corrected.Just wanted to say, South America is not ALL of Latin America. You're excluding México, Central America and the Caribbean here.
Because Latin is already used to represent a whole (extinct) language.
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.
We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
We still say "Latin music" and "Latin food" and "Latin American," none of which refer to ancient language.
The idea that the word is off limits to anything other than the language is absolutely asinine.
Your parents can use whatever inclusive word will replace latinos. It doesn't have to be latinx. But in english spaces latinx is the word being used if you want to be specifically inclusive and aware of other identities similar to how some might say womxn or folkx to be more inclusive.My parents can't pronounce latinx, though. It's not a feature in our language to clump together consonants like that. I don't think it's ever going to be a thing in Mexico, and it's not because my parents refuse to use it in "bad faith".
I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.Official Staff Communication1) Latinx does remain a commonly used term amongst US Spanish-speaking people.
Even when talking to non-Spanish-speaking people? I am familiar with Hispanic people mixing Spanish with English when speaking with other Hispanic people, but with those who only speak Enlgish? I don't see it happen. Maybe in a joking manner.I live in santa ana, and I would say 75% is Hispanic. I've heard lots of people talk the way Manny does.
I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.
I thought we were talking about the word latinx, though. You know what's not that hard to understand either? That people not in Latin America can't realistically modify the language of people living in Latin America. Feel free to think it's just bad faith, though.Your parents can use whatever inclusive word will replace latinos. It doesn't have to be latinx. But in english spaces latinx is the word being used if you want to be specifically inclusive and aware of other identities similar to how some might say womxn or folkx to be more inclusive.
It's really not that hard to understand.
Yeah even with non spanish speaking people. I hear it a lot at work from the nurses and some of the patients. Of course not all my friends talk like that, but some do. Some of my co-workers are Korean, and they talk like that too sometimes. Mixing English and Korean.Even when talking to non-Spanish-speaking people? I am familiar with Hispanic people mixing Spanish with English when speaking with other Hispanic people, but with those who only speak Enlgish? I don't see it happen. Maybe in a joking manner.
Great post, as a Catracho my self I don't like the term "Latinx" but I understand that for the LGBTQ+ community could be very important so I think it's worth discussing and exploring.The issue is not the inclusivity (inclusiviness?). Do you understand how much of latin america history is about conforming and adapting to anglocentrism and culture while also being devastated by it? It's 2020. Let us figure this out. The LGBT community from latin america can do it. We are pointing out, for instance, how the "x" is easy to pronounce in english. It's a term that was not thought out for the languages and day to day conversation happen in latin america at all. Maybe different countries/macrorregions in south and central america will eventually settle on different terms. Who knows.
Point is that USA, once again, painting every country south of it with a brushstroke then not understanding why they complain is an issue.
You ask why me as cis person gets to decide. I don't. But the USA, its latin community or not, does not get to decide how over 20 countries call themselves either.
The purpose is to make it less gendered and inclusive. How you achieve that doesn't really matter. In the US latinx is the biggest which is why it's seeing so much use in english speaking spaces and it's here to stay.I thought we were talking about the word latinx, though. You know what's not that hard to understand either? That people not in Latin America can't realistically modify the language of people living in Latin America. Feel free to think it's just bad faith, though.
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Talk to me, what's your problem?There's a restaurant near where I live that has a whole branding of "mixed latin food" since they seasonally change up their menu by doing their chef's takes on food from other South American countries + Mexico some times.
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The general perception in Latin America is that we don't need to change the language. For a native English speaker it might sound off to use a gendered term, but literally every noun in our language is gendered. Have other Romance languages already changed? Is it also not okay to say français / française?The purpose is to make it less gendered and inclusive. How you achieve that doesn't really matter. In the US latinx is the biggest which is why it's seeing so much use in english speaking spaces and it's here to stay.
If the x is just too much for you to be inclusive but you would be open for another non-masculine word to refer to latin people then that's fine too I guess.
Great post, as a Catracho my self I don't like the term "Latinx" but I understand that for the LGBTQ+ community could be very important so I think it's worth discussing and exploring.
This is a bad example since it seems super forced, but it happens all the time with words that don't have a direct translation or the appropriate word is less common. Put some more "tostones" on my plate. I don't want any more "sancocho" or it could be the other way too. No quieres otro hotdog? or - Viste lo que subí en mis "stories."
The awkward truth here is that Spanish is a deeply deeply deeply gendered language. It's true that Latinos is a 'gender neutral' plural, but it also just so happens to be the male plural as well. Every noun has a binary gender, even things. And there hasn't been a linguistic approach to gender neutrality that has caught on yet. Latin@s, latines, latinx could all conceivably be the best way to do it, but there's little agreement between the people looking to de-gender the language... and that's not even getting into the large conservative group that sees the efforts as PC OverreachThe purpose is to make it less gendered and inclusive. How you achieve that doesn't really matter. In the US latinx is the biggest which is why it's seeing so much use in english speaking spaces and it's here to stay.
If the x is just too much for you to be inclusive but you would be open for another non-masculine word to refer to latin people then that's fine too I guess.
This should be a threadmark.Yep. But I guess we shouldn't talk about that either since talking about the cultural Americanization of Latin America apparently is nitpicking.
As a Latina who always felt bothered by the male version being used as the plural standard in romance languages, I'd prefer Latin for sure [Hispanic doesn't include the Latin American countries that don't speak Spanish]. You can find an option that is inclusive and at the same time isn't a US-centric forced down the throats of Latinos and Latinas who don't want to be referred by another US-centric label. BTW as many people mentioned before, the ''e'' version is also used in Brazil for non-binary people, and also the option ''pessoas não binárias''. ''Latinx'' isn't the only option and shouldn't be forced upon us. Not to mention that ''x/@'' words are a problem when it comes to text to speech software, and therefore, are ableist.
Yeah same. I feel like it's something that has popped up recently in the last few years. Obviously it might be older but I've only ever rarely started to see it online like a couple of years ago if at that and usually not from Hispanics.I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.
The general perception in Latin America is that we don't need to change the language. For a native English speaker it might sound off to use a gendered term, but literally every noun in our language is gendered. Have other Romance languages already changed? Is it also not okay to say français / française?
Your clear ignorance of history of any central or south american country is dazzling.
Yeah I've literally never heard this IRL or even from people talking casually online, I only ever see it on this articles and other things like this.I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.
I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.
I helped draft the staff post, and our point is that it is a commonly term used by some Latino communities in the United States. That's not to say that is universally used by everyone of Latin American ancestry or origin will have have heard of used it.I was gonna say the same but didn't want to push Poodlestrike too hard after I called out the South Americans bit. I know their intentions are good but I'd really like to see a source that points to it being a commonly used term.
The term was started by people living in the US who speak the same language as people living in Latin America. They can't modify their own language? Just look at the first page where people are arguing against the existence of latinx at all and framing it as something invented by white peopleI thought we were talking about the word latinx, though. You know what's not that hard to understand either? That people not in Latin America can't realistically modify the language of people living in Latin America. Feel free to think it's just bad faith, though.
I was born in Colombia and raised in the United States. For reference, pretty much every single Latino friend I have uses the word Latinx. In my experience, it has very popular use in United States based Latino academic, tech, and art spaces. It's not surprising to me that the author the article uses it considering that video games are very much in the intersection of tech and art.
Any effort to make words, with which different people have to identify themself, less gendered is a pretty good start I would say. Some said latine is already rather common so just use that. And in english discussions we will keep using latinx.The general perception in Latin America is that we don't need to change the language. For a native English speaker it might sound off to use a gendered term, but literally every noun in our language is gendered. Have other Romance languages already changed? Is it also not okay to say français / française?
It's an article about representation of latines that ironically doesn't represent us properly.
Latinos in the US use quite a lot of "anglicismos" that are not used in Latin America, their language changes due to English influence. "Me voy para atrás a parquear la troca" is not going to become a thing in Latin America, and latinx isn't going to, either.The term was started by people living in the US who speak the same language as people living in Latin America. They can't modify their own language? Just look at the first page where people are arguing against the existence of latinx at all and framing it as something invented by white people
Higher-ed already gives you some selection bias, and I would presume this is an American university? Most of the people objecting to the term are not from the US.The discussion regarding Latinx has been fascinating for me as someone who works in Higher Ed. It's honestly the first time I've seen open conversation with folks who don't feel represented by it. While we are very much a PWI, about 25% of our students identify as part of the population, and its through our work with professionals of color that we've utilized Latinx terminology in the development of support communities for the students.
Appreciate the conversation and folks talking about their experience and feelings towards it of different identities and locations around the world.
Those friends are from Miami and NYC.
Updated.I'm a Hispanic from the US and I have never heard a Spanish-speaking person say Latinx, I don't know if saying it is a commonly used term is correct.
I helped draft the staff post, and our point is that it is a commonly term used by some Latino communities in the United States. That's not to say that is universally used by everyone of Latin American ancestry or origin will have have heard of used it.
I was born in Colombia and raised in the United States. For reference, pretty much every single Latino friend I have uses the word Latinx. In my experience, it has very popular use in United States based Latino academic, tech, and art spaces. It's not surprising to me that the author the article uses it considering that video games are very much in the intersection of tech and art.
I myself use different words depending on the group I'm in.
We speak like this in Puerto Rico! Though we would say something like "Me voy a palquear el tro'" ("tro" being how we would pronounce "truck")Latinos in the US use quite a lot of "anglicismos" that are not used in Latin America, their language changes due to English influence. "Me voy para atrás a parquear la troca" is not going to become a thing in Latin America, and latinx isn't going to, either.
It's honestly the same thing, just on a different... field? I guess? Dunno if there is much literature about the relationship of privilege and cultural imperialism in that sense. It's something I've only started understanding a couple years ago.Thanks for the in-depth explanation! Makes a lot of sense and as an American, it is hard to see what influence you have when you're the one doing it (similar to privilege, go figure).
TBH that one's on me. I wrote the initial draft, and nobody else caught my error.I'm sorry but this just makes the "South American" error even worse. Two people looked over the staff post, one a Latina herself, and y'all just completely forgot Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America existed, in a thread about Latin representation? I knew Latin issues here are a bit of an afterthought but sheesh...
Which is why progressive latin americans created latine to use as a gender neutral form. But this doesn't mean that latinx should not be used at all, which is what people have been arguing for.Latinos in the US use quite a lot of "anglicismos" that are not used in Latin America, their language changes due to English influence. "Me voy para atrás a parquear la troca" is not going to become a thing in Latin America, and latinx isn't going to, either.
Latine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LatinxWhich is why progressive latin americans created latine to use as a gender neutral form. But this doesn't mean that latinx should not be used at all, which is what people have been arguing for.
Sure, I didn't catch the error and I should have. I'm sorry about that.I'm sorry but this just makes the "South American" error even worse. Two people looked over the staff post, one a Latina herself, and y'all just completely forgot Mexico, the Caribbean and Central America existed, in a thread about Latin representation? I knew Latin issues here are a bit of an afterthought but sheesh...
Yup.Which is why progressive latin americans created latine to use as a gender neutral form. But this doesn't mean that latinx should not be used at all, which is what people have been arguing for.
As has been said, a lot of people use Latinx. Their terms for themselves are just as valid as your terms for yourself.Latine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Latinx
At least that one is pronouncable.
That's certainly true. You only ever get a small slice of the pie.If there's something I hope people take away from this, it's that the US-born/US-resident Latino cultural experience is different from the cultural experience of Latinos living outside the US. Not lesser or in any way less important, but nonetheless different. There are issues affecting the latter that do not affect the former, and vice-versa. And just because the former might more readily accept the term "Latinx," it doesn't mean that the latter will as well. Also: as English speakers, you only ever get to hear what the former has to say. And that won't change unless you start venturing into non-English spaces.