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timesolo

Member
Apr 5, 2019
43
Texas
It doesn't take a team composed of only people who know The Latinx Experience — especially because no single group, particularly one as infinitely diverse as Latinx people, is a monolith; it takes a genuine interest, an honest commitment to listening, and a dedication to improving a story's writing, no matter the subject.

I wonder what from this quote at the end of the article can we take and learn from as we continue to discuss matters of self-identification in a world pegged on assimilating us into a status-quo. I understand the struggle and inner conflict as a bilingual person, son of two immigrants, moving from familiar cultures in one neighborhood to another with almost nobody like me. I resculpted my identity to "fit" in and behave towards the center of what was normal. Then I spoke with my cousins in California and learned that they grew up in similar but different environments, developing different identities somewhat to mine, because of the region. Some of this exploration of the self happened to us and some of it happened by choice. In the end, we learned that talking to each other, studying the struggles of our forefathers, and making choices to better the future generations of our people through activism was our responsibility. Being inclusive is about listening and empathy. Please understand that the author of the article and the perspectives and experiences of many in this thread are very different, but similar in some ways. This forum is another medium through which we self-identify as and reveal ourselves to others that have gone through their own, or might just be starting to develop a deeper understanding. In my opinion, there is not much good that can be had from a comparison of who's right or wrong, who's better or not, what is the best term to use...By developing the argument into one where we share experiences, we can move towards a better future, and hopefully, improve representation in video games.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
As you can see in this thread, its not really inclusive when used as a catch all term but instead puts a label on people that they dont want.

If people who use the term Latinx find that the term is what is inclusive for them, and not any others, how would you suggest the title of this article is changed?
 

supernormal

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,147
No. It doesn't happen. No bilingual speaker says anything like: "and then I drank a cerveza and had some manzanas with breakfast."

This is a bad example since it seems super forced, but it happens all the time with words that don't have a direct translation or the appropriate word is less common. Put some more "tostones" on my plate. I don't want any more "sancocho" or it could be the other way too. No quieres otro hotdog? or - Viste lo que subí en mis "stories."
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,511
Seems like the industry largely still uses the representation they pick up from other media as their basis instead of using primary sources themselves. Yeah there is actual great Hispanic representation in film and literature, but if you are copying works instead of having someone from the background pen the characters then you are never going to be at the same level of the works that are inspiring you. Doesn't matter how many Latin American films you watch for research, is not the same as having a Latin American writer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,678
If people who use the term Latinx find that the term is what is inclusive for them, and not any others, how would you suggest the title of this article is changed?
Latinx is great if you refer to the people that identify as latinx, dont use latinx for the people that dont identify as latinx, is really simple.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
Maybe let the author use inclusive language if they want to? Oh the horror.

The problem is that using that term does not resonate well with the public target. If she wants to do it, by all means do it, but we as latinamericans have the right to express why we don't agree with such term.

I don't think the problem is using Latinx per we, but when talking about LATAM countries and its people and then use a term coined only by Americans sounds like they are doing they same they are criticizing.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
Maybe let the author use inclusive language if they want to? Oh the horror.
People in this thread have already said they don't feel included by the supposed "inclusive language" on latinx. We don't appreciate seeing phrases like "The latinx experience" used to describe us and our families.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
User Banned (2 Weeks): Dismissive Commentary; Ignoring Staff Post
As you can see in this thread, its not really inclusive when used as a catch all term but instead puts a label on people that they dont want.
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
It is, but it also looks and sounds stupid, so no one actually uses it. Since Hispanic is gender neutral in English, there is literally no reason not to use that instead.
Hispanic is itself a pretty awful term. Literally created by the US government to separate us from other people.
 

Hadok

Member
Feb 14, 2018
5,797
I haven't played TLOU2 but that depiction sounds...unfortunate.

I do want to say a game I did play this year with main characters Hispanic front and center was Life is Strange 2. And while that game does also have the older brother inserting Spanish words into English sentences fairly regularly,

actually:

"Gonzalo was given some liberties with changing certain lines to sound more natural. He improvised Sean calling Daniel "enano", which was inspired by how he referred to his own younger brothers "
life-is-strange.fandom.com

Gonzalo Martin

Gonzalo Martin is the voice actor of Sean Diaz in Life is Strange 2. Born May 22, 1996 in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Gonzalo began acting at a very young age. Although he initially studied to become a pilot, by the time of his graduation, he decided to pursue a career in acting. At the age of 18...
 

MechaJackie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Brazil
Unfortunately the "e" does not always work in PT-BR, as sometimes "e" is gendered male...
In "Latino/Latina" it would make a non-gendered version of it "Latine", but I don't know... Nearly half of the time the "e" won't work as non-gendered. Non-gendered language (at least in Brazilian-Portuguese, don't know how it is in Spanish) is still not something well defined, it's quite a shit-show to be honest...
It is, but it also looks and sounds stupid, so no one actually uses it. Since Hispanic is gender neutral in English, there is literally no reason not to use that instead.
It has been explained in this thread a few times already, but not every country in """"""Latin America""""""" speaks Spanish.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,192
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.
You not being able to imagine something does not mean it doesn't exist or is not valid. Maybe there's something else going on, some bias, some experience you don't have? Who knows, really.
 

R2RD

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 6, 2018
2,785
This is a bad example since it seems super forced, but it happens all the time with words that don't have a direct translation or the appropriate word is less common. Put some more "tostones" on my plate. I don't want any more "sancocho" or it could be the other way too. No quieres otro hotdog? or - Viste lo que subí en mis "stories."

That's the problem, most of the time they use super forced words in spanish. Most recent example is Esposito saying " El Presidente" out of nowhere in the Far cry 6 trailer. What you are saying is true but is not what we usually see in games.
 
Mar 18, 2020
2,434
There aren't many latinos in Triple A dev and it's pretty obvious, not to mention those who are in there most likely get ignored when these conversations are had.
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,957
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
I'm all aboard having gender neutral terms in Spanish, but again, the X doesn't work in our language, it just makes a mess in the pronounciation of thousands and thousands of words. Using E where you normally use the A and O is what people have been going mostly for inclusive language, and that one actually works, we can pronounce it, unlike an X.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,590
I am Argentinean, both latinx and Latino are BS. Id rather say Colombian, Mexican, Cuban, Peruvian... It's not like there are 50 Spanish speaking countries in the Americas... they are huge and easy to identify in a map.

Latin American is BS as well, you never hear "Anglo Americans" used to refer to US folks, Canadians, Jamaicans and the like.
 

lukeskymac

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
992
Unfortunately the "e" does not always work in PT-BR, as sometimes "e" is gendered male...
In "Latino/Latina" it would make a non-gendered version of it "Latine", but I don't know... Nearly half of the time the "e" won't work as non-gendered. Non-gendered language (at least in Brazilian-Portuguese, don't know how it is in Spanish) is still not something well defined, it's quite a shit-show to be honest...

It has been explained in this thread a few times already, but not every country in """"""Latin America""""""" speaks Spanish.
I'm Brazilian, so I should know that. But let's be honest - they are talking about Spanish speaking countries here. US portrayals of Brazilians are different.
 

kyo2004

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
Bogotá D.C.
I am Argentinean, both latinx and Latino are BS. Id rather say Colombian, Mexican, Cuban, Peruvian... It's not like there are 50 Spanish speaking countries in the Americas... they are huge and easy to identify in a map.

Latin American is BS as well, you never hear "Anglo Americans" used to refer to US folks, Canadians, Jamaicans and the like.

About that, there is a word to encapsulate that in spanish... Paises Angloparlantes... xD...
 
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Hilbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,979
Pacific Northwest!
Latinx is an English word used in English sentences, it is not meant to be used in Spanish, and I am a PoC that refers to myself that way. When I speak Spanish I am not using it.
This thread needs to stop policing what marginalized people are referring to themselves in their Language.

Resetera cannot discuss topics around this because of how intersectional it is:

Race: Non-white Latinx people are having their racial identity taken from them, with increased difficulties in talking about it. We are being forced to use words that are non-racial to talk about ourselves. The American census provides no way for us to racially identify ourselves collectively, we are forced to write in something unique so our collective voices aren't heard. If we attempt to use some kind of shorthand like Latinx, Latino or Hispanic we will have people from Mexico or worse, Spain and America being sure to tell use race isn't part of that and to stop bringing race up.

Meanwhile People, Politicians and Police still treat us as non-white people of color in America, Canada and Europe. Perhaps if you aren't part of this group in these countries, like you are in Latin America, you should realize you don't really understand. And by focusing on how people are talking about their group collectively you are silencing their voice when it comes to the issue.

If I want to talk about this online I will need to use about 10 qualifying statements become people will just latch onto one thing and make the topic about that so they don't have to deal with the actual subject matter. Which, big fucking surprise, is what is happening here.

And just stop telling people they are wrong in how they refer to themselves or their group, even if they are talking about you. When you talk about your group and you, use your own preferred term.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
That's funny to me as a Latino who's always had an interest in Norse history and mythology as everything I've been exposed to had made me think the opposite with blonder Nordic peoples coming from the northern countries like Sweden and Iceland and more brunette peoples coming from Denmark and central Europe. All my Swedish and Finnish friends being blonde probably helped insert that cognitive bias in my mind too. I'm glad your comment allowed me to take a second to reflect on an unknown bias I had that was probably created by the media a large that I didn't even realize had occurred in my head.
Yeah the media is terrible when it comes to representation in general. Movies, TV shows, games, they just go for the easiest stereotype they can find to not confuse people.

But no doubt, there are blondes here, especially young kids, I was super blonde as a kid, then turned almost black as I grew older. And where I live it's quite rare to be naturally blonde as an adult, most just dye their hair. So it's a bit tiresome to always see swedish characters get that group represented while the rest of us apparently don't exist in the eyes of the media.

Oh well, I've started turning grey anyway so soon I'll look just like any other old western protagonist, scruffy and all.

Edit: sorry to go off topic
 
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timesolo

Member
Apr 5, 2019
43
Texas
For those new to the backgrounds of Hispanic/Latinos/Mexican-Americans/Latin-Americans/South-Americans/And All Else, I cannot list them all...There exists a real division between cultures, and with that sometimes judgment, even though we might share a native tongue. Acknowledging this can maybe give some insight and clarity as to why the discussion has gone the way that it is currently.

It's apparent that this is a conversation of languages, Spanish vs. English, an argument to be had by high schoolers debate club...No joke, my cousin had this exact argument, she was top of her class, valedictorian, and she made good points as to why the forced use of certain words was...petty. I did not agree with her, but I did listen to her thoughts. I love her very much and will continue to appreciate her leadership in pushing for brown civil justice and being an activist for our people.

On the matter about videogames, I agree that there should be more writers with first-hand experiences creating some of these stories, or at least writers and directors doing their due-diligence before putting out a product.

And before anyone asks, I have gone by Hispanic, Mexican-American, Mexican, but never Latin-American nor Latinx
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,243
We are getting the best Latino representation possible...the US Latino.

The US gaming industry are not ready for real Latino representation because most of americans are ignorants about Latin American Countries.

About the LatinX word...i don't care. I don't even know what it means and this is the first time that i see it being use it...
The issue is that Americans, even otherwise progressive Americans, are still very ignorant and myopic to the rest of the world, even when they attempt to discuss topics of representation and inclusivity. In the case of Latino representation, Americans are only exposed to articles like this one, which expose the issue through the lens of Latin Americans living and possibly born in the US, whose cultural experience is inherently very different from that of Latin Americans living in Latin America. I'm not saying that their experience is in some way diminished or less important--in some ways, it might be even more nuanced--but it is nonetheless different, albeit special in its own. So when Americans think that by reading articles like this that they're being educated on issues facing Latin Americans, they should know that they're really only being educated on the cultural experience of US-born or resident Latin Americans. Which while important, often comes at the expense of our own cultural experience getting drowned out or outright dismissed (as we are seeing in this thread).

And I don't see the issue getting any better so long as Americans continue to be complacent in only knowing their native language. I mean, do some of you really think that your view and perspective on the rest of the world is not inherently biased by the fact that everything you consume is in English? Because it does, it does massively bias and limit how broad your perspective of the world can be.
 
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Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.

What is the term you are using in German? Was coined by Germans living in the USA?

Nobody is saying don't use inclusive language, but we are just saying we already have several options, we don't need Americans to push one on us. If they are using it for their anglosphere, then fine, everywhere else pls use ours.

Also calling people gaters just because you don't understand where people are coming from is very low, and I would argue who is acting in bad faith tbh.
 

lukeskymac

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
992
Hispanic is itself a pretty awful term. Literally created by the US government to separate us from other people.
It certainly wasn't created by the US government, and it seems from earlier in the thread that many people don't share this negative view, but considering how the US government fucks up in everything they do... yeah. I guess "Spanish-speaking Latin Americans" is the safest term.
 

7thFloor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,646
U.S.
Race: Non-white Latinx people are having their racial identity taken from them, with increased difficulties in talking about it. We are being forced to use words that are non-racial to talk about ourselves. The American census provides no way for us to racially identify ourselves collectively, we are forced to write in something unique so our collective voices aren't heard. If we attempt to use some kind of shorthand like Latinx, Latino or Hispanic we will have people from Mexico or worse, Spain and America being sure to tell use race isn't part of that and to stop bringing race up.
How is the census inaccurate? Hispanic/Latino isn't a race, I just check Hispanic, Native American and White.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,243
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
I didn't know Germans were a historically oppressed peoples. Who are you to decide what issues should be important to us?
 

FunnyBunny19

alt account
Banned
Jan 3, 2019
462
Latino here from Latin America born and raised, just wanted to chime in and say Latinx does not represent me at all and no one I know appreciates or even gives the time of day to this term.

Also, most of the spanglish in video games is bullshit but I did appreciate Manny's version, didn't find it too bad.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
What is the term you are using in German? Was coined by Germans living in the USA?

Nobody is saying don't use inclusive language, but we are just saying we already have several options, we don't need Americans to push one on us. If they are using it for their anglosphere, then fine, everywhere else pls use ours.

Also calling people gaters just because you don't understand where people are coming from is very low, and I would argue who is acting in bad faith tbh.
Latinx is the way I see most left leaning or non-binary latin people refer to themself and others. We are speaking english so there should be no problem to adopt this word in english spaces. If you want to stay gendered in your own language you can do that.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,989
I am Argentinean, both latinx and Latino are BS. Id rather say Colombian, Mexican, Cuban, Peruvian... It's not like there are 50 Spanish speaking countries in the Americas... they are huge and easy to identify in a map.
Agreed.
I think this whole "latinx" (by the way the X is used way too different on Spanish context) is a term based on racism.
We don't have "white people" or "black people" on our country, we are Costarricenses (Ticos to our friends). And so are all our neighbors, Colombians, Nicaraguans, etc. The only common ground among us is the language, but even our pronunciation is very different among us. Heck, put a bunch of Latin American people together and the first thing they will do is joke about the language differences.

They try to label us on a single easy catch-name because they don't know anything about us.
 
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MechaJackie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,032
Brazil
I'm Brazilian, so I should know that. But let's be honest - they are talking about Spanish speaking countries here. US portrayals of Brazilians are different.
Yeap, you know what, you're right. hahahaha

"""""""Latin America""""""" is a fucking nothing term that means nothing. It's just "those places down south where they speak Spanish". IMO, "latinx" or "latine" whatever, fuck it, doesn't matter, stop referring to us with that fucking term.
 

ScoobsJoestar

Member
May 30, 2019
4,071
When bilingual characters throw in spanish words isn't that just code switching? That's a well researched phenomenon in linguistics.

7yv0xXt.jpg


When Jackie in Cyberpunk says something in spanish it seems implied to me that he assumes the player character knows what he's saying in either language

I can see though that it gets annoying when this is the standard representation

If I'm speaking with another Latino in Canada that speaks Portuguese, I'm likely to use words of both languages because sometimes you forget what the right word is in either language and it's faster to be like "Fuck it, you get what I mean." Specially common when we both immigrated to Canada at a young age but still have parents that are more comfortable with Portuguese. Even then, it's rare. It's more common that if we're both speaking Portuguese we'll thrown in English words because that's the language we use most often and are only speaking in Portuguese because the community is around lol

Can't say we ever start speaking in English and throw in Portuguese words.

Like example: "Qual o nome daquela...uh...uh....yoga instructor?" Because we temporarily don't remember how to say certain things in our native tongue. (...How the fuck do you say yoga instructor in portuguese actually lol. Uh...instrutora de yoga? Professora de yoga? I DON'T KNOW)

Neither I nor literally anyone I have ever met tosses in Portuguese/Spanish words in the middle of a sentence when speaking to a person that doesn't also speak that language.
 

Javier

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,625
Chile
actually:

"Gonzalo was given some liberties with changing certain lines to sound more natural. He improvised Sean calling Daniel "enano", which was inspired by how he referred to his own younger brothers "
life-is-strange.fandom.com

Gonzalo Martin

Gonzalo Martin is the voice actor of Sean Diaz in Life is Strange 2. Born May 22, 1996 in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Gonzalo began acting at a very young age. Although he initially studied to become a pilot, by the time of his graduation, he decided to pursue a career in acting. At the age of 18...

And because of that it felt organic the way he said it, the tone and the timing when he was talking with his brother, which, by the way, is one of the worst things about representation, the misuse of the spanish language it's frankly terrible. I mean, how many of you here use the word "criaturas" to talk about people:
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
Latinx is the way I see most left leaning or non-binary latin people refer to themself and others. We are speaking english so there should be no problem to adopt this word in english spaces. If you want to stay gendered in your own language you can do that.
I have not had the same experience. And there are many left-leaning people in this thread telling you the same.

Though given how you previously downplayed our objections by implying we're bigots arguing in bad faith, I'm not sure whether this will mean anything to you.
 

FunnyBunny19

alt account
Banned
Jan 3, 2019
462
Also, I can't believe we're being peddled Giancarlo Esposito as latino representation AGAIN. Fuck outta here with that.
 
Sep 14, 2018
4,624
I have not had the same experience. And there are many left-leaning people in this thread telling you the same.

Though given how you previously downplayed our objections by implying we're bigots arguing in bad faith, I'm not sure whether this will mean anything to you.
It won't. White ppl always know better.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,243
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
"it's just language"

Language is an immense part of culture, and for Latinos, our culture is one of the few things that we still try to claim as our own. So when the American majority tries to dictate what should be the "proper" way to speak a language that they themselves do not speak nor understand, it is directly infringing on our claim to our own culture.
 

FunnyBunny19

alt account
Banned
Jan 3, 2019
462
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.

Excuse me? Oh my God.
 

ozzyh26

Member
Oct 28, 2017
132
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
Lol GTFO of here with that take. Your experience in your country is nothing like ours so don't claim to know or understand whats going on in our community.
 

NoUse4AName

Banned
Feb 5, 2019
385
User Banned (Permanent): Xenophobia, prior severe infraction
Having proper Latino representation in games means that Americans need to deal with people from other countries making gender jokes, racial jokes and many other things that here in America represent an insult.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,903
JP
I really don't think any of you are arguing in good faith. I can't imagine how making a gendered language less gendered and more inclusive to women and nonbinary folx could create such an outcry. I don't buy it.

We are doing similar stuff in german and sure it's awkward and stuff but it's just language that we will get used to with time. Really no big deal. Seems more like people want to talk shit about those americans and their unecessary social justice crap.
My parents can't pronounce latinx, though. It's not a feature in our language to clump together consonants like that. I don't think it's ever going to be a thing in Mexico, and it's not because my parents refuse to use it in "bad faith".
 

timesolo

Member
Apr 5, 2019
43
Texas
And because of that it felt organic the way he said it, the tone and the timing when he was talking with his brother, which, by the way, is one of the worst things about representation, the misuse of the spanish language it's frankly terrible. I mean, how many of you here use the word "criaturas" to talk about people:

Another point in why code-switching in Spanish/English dialogue sometimes can sound forced, and others like this example, sounds natural, is because of the proper noun it is replacing. Enano is a term of endearment between an older sibling and younger brother, nicknames that in that culture are common and often do replace someone's name. I can appreciate these moments more than some random Spanglish.

Life is Strange 2 must have done something good because a good friend of mine, non-Hispanic and non-white, actually recommended it to me and said I would really like it. At the time, when the game first came out, I didn't know if he was patronizing me because of the racial backgrounds the game's characters and I shared... I still have yet to play Life is Strange 2, but after participating in this thread, I might just pick it up to see how representation was handled in that game.
 

FunnyBunny19

alt account
Banned
Jan 3, 2019
462
Official Staff Communication
After reviewing feedback, we're changing our stance on this thread. If our users from Latin America feel that the discussion of Latinx is germane to the topic of representation in games, then please feel free to continue having that conversation.

However, we request that people keep a few things in mind as they do:

1) Latinx does remain a commonly used term amongst US Spanish-speaking people. The exact origin of the term is unclear, but saying the term is just the creation of white people takes away the agency of those people of Latin American ancestry in the United States who most likely created and most definitely decided to use the terms for their own communities. Do not act with hostility or derision towards those using it as their preferred term to express their own identity.

2) The reasoning for it is grounded in an effort for inclusivity. Any posters diminishing or dismissing those ideas in general is engaging in bannable behavior per our ToS.

3) On the flipside, it's very clear that a number of users do *not* feel that Latinx adequately describes their identity. In the same way that you should respect people who choose to use it, you should also respect those who don't. Reading over the posts in the thread, "latine" seems to be another acceptable gender-neutral term, but part of the point of this discussion is sounding out what the best words to use are, so this remains a moving target.

As ever, intersectional issues can prove a challenge for all of us. Please do your best to be gentle and kind. Not everybody is going to have all the answers all the time.

Just wanted to say, South America is not ALL of Latin America. You're excluding México, Central America and the Caribbean here.