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Facebook plans to possibly shift to 50% remote workforce in 5 years, will re evaluate pay based on location of workers who move in 2021
- Thread starter RastaMentality
- Start date
Also one asking if the value of $1 today is the same as the value of $1 one year from now.
It balances out. That's the whole fucking point. You make more money in SF but your expenses are similarly higher. Move elsewhere and your pay decreases but so do your expenses.
It's funny how in the reverse of the situation (Low COL -> High) people scream GET PAID MORE but in this case it's now HOLD UP
If you're living in SF making 180K base, with 250K in stock and move to Boise you're not getting your pay slashed in half. You'll probably go to 100-130 but keep your stock and be in a much lower COL. People forget there's still market competition going on and if you're good enough to be hired by FB they're not going to cheap out over 10K-20K.
People have trouble understanding the realities of the cost of living even if they claim to understand it because they're stuck within their own bubble of their local area and experiences and haven't really seen it actually impacts people. It used to boggle me that people didn't get this but it's starting to not anymore. When I mention in threads on this forum how a down payment on a house here can buy one or even two houses outright in another state and still have money left over and they're shocked, it just tells me they really don't understand how greatly cost of living can vary.
It blew me away honestly, and I work at a very progressive company, albeit a much smaller one.
Say what you will about Facebook as an entity, but as you attest they treat their employees very well and they seem to be quite happy.
People this is absolutely normal for remote workers at least in larger companies. Mine does the same for remote workers (only certain positions qualify) your pay is based on the closest office you live next to as they do make you come in for semi-annual meetings so each job has a base salary plus COL based on their home office. Many remote workers do quite well as they don't live in the cities of their home office.
Some of the replies in this thread are kind of not surprising how people think pay works in tech. Working for FB in Austin or Seattle or Mtl isn't going to pay the same salary as working in Menlo Park. Your pay is not based purely on your skill (or game developers would make a fuck ton more but they don't), it very much depends on the size of the talent pool where you're located and how many companies are trying to go after the same tallent. If everybody goes to a WFH model the talent pool gets vastly wider. Even before all this, you saw many SF based companies opening up satellite offices in places like Toronto where the cost have been cheaper and there was a growing talent pool.
Nothing like blowing off some steam over a complicated issue by spending 15min at the arcade then going to grab a cookie at the cookie/cake/icecream place on the way back. It was interesting being there as a contracted out dev but not sure I would want to be there full time as the expectations are crazy high but they do over all take good care of you.
Makes sense. Do permanent WFH, pay decrease those in other areas, hire new folks from other countries who will do it for very little.
They were already hiring people in different countries. Nothing stopped them from doing this before and nothing is going to change the fact that they can't just do that. There's more to this than numbers on a spreadsheet and they know this. Your take is ill informed.
I don't know why some of you keep repeating this. FB is a multibillion dollar company that is literally always hiring. If they wanted hire folks from other countries for cheap there is absolutely nothing whatsoever stopping them from doing that at any point in time. This isn't going to lead to some increase in outsourcing because it has nothing to do with that. They'll hire more people within the US, or within the countries they have offices, outside the vicinity of those offices is all
They are already doing that. There's plenty FAANG offices all over the world.
Not gonna stop US engineers from mega baller status though.
Did those people get paid less because they worked from home? Sources? If you live in a city where you work and then get paid less to work from home then you have a case. But that is not at all what is happening here.
I also NEVER said it was only in favor of the workers, it's a win-win from both sides in many many cases. Clearly businesses benefit from having less employees on location.
Also the whole increased cost because you are working from home is a real reach to spin this into a negative. Especially in this case where you have Facebook employees in this thread saying they were given money to set-up.
There are edge cases of abuse in basically any arrangement you can think of between employer-employee. That doesn't make what is happening here a bad thing nor does it make it a bad thing in the vast majority of cases.
That's not the point. VW has an own economy, they would never do that.
Maybe its because we do not have same distances to our working places, but the saved money can never compete with the extra expenses. (Power, heating/cooling, Internet, ...) 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, 231 days.
It shouldnt be part of the tax payback. Its not the job of the government to pay for your office set up.
The company should cover it, and if they apply get the money back.
That was not the point.
The argument from poster was there is always an office to go to. And that's simply not true.
VW has its own economy. You cant compare them to others. For many others they just started with wfh on a big scale during corona. A decrease in pay in the same company for the same job with the same qualification because one is working from home and the other is not would lead to cases in court. Equality law wouldnt let that pass I believe.
Of course companies need to pay for the set up, in theory they gotta check on workplace security too. Just because you work from home does not mean their responsibility stops at your frontdoor.
The set up is not what I am talking about cost-wise. It's the running costs.
I hope Google and Apple say something about this soon.
I also hope Google drops their plans to take over DTSJ.
I also hope Google drops their plans to take over DTSJ.
They will still have to pay market rates for salary for any given individual's location. Otherwise, people will not be interested in taking the position.
can't help but feel like all these tech companies super eager to transition to WFH is just an excuse for them to treat their employees worse. I'm all for a hybrid environment and more regular WFH to reduce environmental impact, but there's gonna be some bad tradeoffs based on how employers view employees. Makes humans feel more like an expendable resource
I had a friend who was making competitive pay at a tech company in SF. He jumped at the chance to take on a 3 month assignment in India so he could see family and lived in an empty apartment owned by a relative. The assignment turned into 2 years and he lived like a king on his pay. That's a case of luck and circumstance.
I don't think anyone expects companies to keep up cost of living pay for people who are living in cheap places. Hopefully it encourages people to move to the place they want to be and takes a lot of pressure off of those of us who want to live in the bay area because we like it, not just because of the jobs. Watching people who are only here to make a lot of money complain about the weather, culture, and other stuff while contributing to some of the hardest problems really annoys me.
I don't think anyone expects companies to keep up cost of living pay for people who are living in cheap places. Hopefully it encourages people to move to the place they want to be and takes a lot of pressure off of those of us who want to live in the bay area because we like it, not just because of the jobs. Watching people who are only here to make a lot of money complain about the weather, culture, and other stuff while contributing to some of the hardest problems really annoys me.
What is VW? Are we even talking about the same thing? This thread is about Facebook and I was replying to your comment about Facebook.
Your power/heating/cooling isn't going to be more expensive than your travel expenses for most people. Between monthly rail tickets, tolls, gas, and/or car maintenance costs, those things add up way faster than your power bill. Something tells me you're not factoring in things like car maintenance costs because they're not up front in your face too but they should absolute be factored in. You don't have to pay for Internet suddenly since you're already paying for Internet. Writing off work and business expenses is a pretty common thing for one to do on your taxes, but I do think a company should cover things like your computer equipment and so forth. Plus there's a difference between allowing someone to work from home and mandating that they work from home.
This is gonna have its pros and its cons.
Remote work, especially across state lines, is going to re-distribute a little bit of the SV wealth to poorer and more rural places. Well, as rural as the network infrastructure will allow for. Maybe remote work will be the impetus that drives better infrastructure to be built nationwide (lol who am I kidding). You are going have wealthy people spending their money and infusing it right into the pockets of small businesses of neighbours.
On the other hand, Big Tech Unga Bunga salaries are gonna put pressure on these same small town folks. How can they compete on house prices when the dude in flip flops, cargo pants and polo is casually dropping a milli on a house? You can't.
Remote work, especially across state lines, is going to re-distribute a little bit of the SV wealth to poorer and more rural places. Well, as rural as the network infrastructure will allow for. Maybe remote work will be the impetus that drives better infrastructure to be built nationwide (lol who am I kidding). You are going have wealthy people spending their money and infusing it right into the pockets of small businesses of neighbours.
On the other hand, Big Tech Unga Bunga salaries are gonna put pressure on these same small town folks. How can they compete on house prices when the dude in flip flops, cargo pants and polo is casually dropping a milli on a house? You can't.
Ya, other states and cities outside of California, like in Oregon has complained about the influx of people screwing up local housing prices.
Just to be pedantic, they pay above market rates. Wherever you are based, you will be earning very good money.
Yep if you work for FAANG, you are really well-off, and, if your spouse does too, you're just freaking rich.
Yep, lots of smaller cities in Western WA as well (of course Seattle is a whole nother story)
I work for a SF based startup and I am the only "regular" remote member on my team and I'm positive I'm paid less than my coworkers. The thing is I'm paid at the very high end for my role in my city so I don't care. My total comp package was much higher than anything I would've found in my city as well. I understand my coworkers are making 5-10k more but my quality of life is way higher because it's so much cheaper here.
Nothing would change if you wouldn't move. And you'd get more money if you moved to a place where living is more costly.
Generally salary changes according to the local rate not the local cost of living. Devs in Amsterdam "enjoy" a way lower salary than those in London despite similar costs of living, and I doubt this is going to change any time soon.
I live in Dublin, a friend actually works for Facebook here but the rest of his team work in their HQ in California. His colleagues at HQ absolutely earn more than him, I don't think that is in question. But his one salary is enough for him to support his wife and kid, has been enough to buy a house, and allow his wife to not work as she has a health issue and after having their baby just isn't ready to go back to the workplace, and there is zero financial need for her to do so. So yeah, he makes less than his colleagues but has a very comfortable life and isn't just handing his extra pay over to a landlord.
I think there have been some issues with content moderators but that is such a tough job. I don't know the details. But as I said before in this thread, I cannot believe we have an outrage thread over Facebook compensation. It is absolutely amazing.
This is me. My whole team works in SF and I am in Chicago and I know they aren't making more when you factor in cost of living. One day I was complaining about my small apartment and my coworker told me he shares a 450 sq ft place with a roommate.I would love to move to the Bay area but the prices are just insane and even with a relatively high salary it wouldn't be worth the decline in lifestyle.
Yeah, the bay is fucked. I can only say that it truly works for those making over 200k+. Everyone else is roommates with someone. Even those making that much might have roommates, because of the lack of 1BR/1BA apartments or houses in the area.
And the issue is that while not everyone is okay with the status quo, there's a heavy corporate, apolitical air that has permuted throughout that really wants EVERYTHING TO STAY THE SAME.
Even one of my CEOs in a call was like, "I want everything to go back the way it was before COVID-19." Boy, is he living in a bubble within a bubble.
You want an apartment? Better start shelling over 2-3K (on the lower end) for it depending on the area.
The worst part? If you're from a bigger city (which, mind you, there aren't many in the US), everything outside of SF leaves a lot to be desired. Looking at you Silicon Valley. There aren't many sky scrapers outside of SF/Oakland. Why? San Jose has a restriction of 30 floors because its airport was idiotically located right next to downtown. However, living in San Jose is like living in the most boring place on earth. All the other cities have restrictions, too.
Public transit (BART) has been blocked by the richer neighborhoods on the peninsula. Ideally, you could live in Mountain View and BART to SF. In reality, that's never going to happen.
There are bars, but clubs are few and far between. Restaurants are alright, but mostly overpriced, because wages for workers have to be a little higher.
Housing is extremely outdated, just like most of CA. All new construction is 2 hours away in the east bay. Nope.
I fucking hate this place. I want to do something about it, but time and time again, corporate and NIMBY interests keep winning.
If you're not standing up for something, then you're co-signing on the status quo.
Mind you, not even Apple could add housing to its new HQ "Ring," because the residents in the city of Cupertino blocked that requirement. Every time tech tries to add housing, the cities block it.
They just want the jobs, but not housing. It MAKES NO SENSE.
There are positives to the area, but most of it is provincial and tries to be a mix of "city" and "small town."
It's the most infuriating thing when there is SO MUCH MONEY floating around. There should be skyscrapers housing tons of employees if they really want this modern tech utopia. As it stands, it's a dystopia in which black/Latinx/native people are being shuffled out at the expense of tech workers. And the cog keeps on spinning.
/my bay area rant of the day is over, good night!
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For many who move to a city with another office they can occasionally work from and eat for free at, the difference in CoL expenses and housing can still net you positive. At my company, the multiplier change state by state isn't too drastic. It's still typically better to be in cheaper parts of the country net net.
This whole talk by Zuckerberg was posted publicly so I am listening to it. For existing employees, they are actually putting more barriers in the way of you moving to remote work than anything. Your team needs to support it, you need some amount of tenure, and you need to be performing highly for two rating cycles. So the notion you come into work one day and FB say "Grab your stuff and get the fuck out, you're moving to Alabama and we're slashing your wages" is miles off. For existing employees it will be driven by the employee.