Wouldn't it effectively create outsourcing within the United States border? Why pay someone Bay Area wages, when you can pay someone less in Kentucky to do the same services.
Is there a much high quality talent out there? And if there is why wouldn't they negotiate for higher salaries than that?How do people not get that they'll shift to hiring people in Alabama that they can pay $40K a year? Don't be stupid.
Cost of living no longer makes sense with remote work because you can work from anywhere, you don't have to live in the Bay-area because you can do your work from rural Idaho. Fully remote employees should be paid an average market rate for the country otherwise everyone might as well move to California and get an 80k bonus.
Isn't a lot of that in direct relation to the cost of doing business in those area?
Cost of living no longer makes sense with remote work because you can work from anywhere, you don't have to live in the Bay-area because you can do your work from rural Idaho. Fully remote employees should be paid an average market rate for the country otherwise everyone might as well move to California and get an 80k bonus.
Why the fuck would they "adjust" salaries based on location??? How does this impact the value of their work?
Is this just pure bullshit or am I missing something?
Basically this. Amazon gives 10% premium for SF/NYC over other cities. That's it.It's normal actually in big tech companies. They pay more in more expensive areas cause CoL is higher.
but it's nowhere near as extreme as what people are assuming.
it's basically 160k vs 190k type situations.
That's what Apple Microsoft Amazon Facebook Google would pay though. Even in those areas.Are you presuming that's what Facebook will pay? Or are you saying that the average mid-sr dev would Otherwise be making 160k in Raleigh? Charlotte? Atlanta?
I work for a very large company in Atlanta and PMs are making right above $100k.
I don't think anybody except at the Principal/Staff/Architect/Sr manager level is making a base salary of 180k in the south. And that's probably extreme enough as it is.
That's what Apple Microsoft Amazon Facebook Google would pay though. Even in those areas.
An average market rate would be problematic as well, though, as then people in expensive cities couldn't afford to work for the company.
Overall, paying people based on the market in their physical area makes the most sense, as it will lower the cost of living in expensive cities by reducing the amount of people moving there, and incentivising people to move to lower-cost of living places.
Basically this. Amazon gives 10% premium for SF/NYC over other cities. That's it.
It's purely to account for an increased cost of living.
I commuted into work for 15yrs and it destroyed me. These past few years I've been fortune that I can afford to get a degree so I'm in total control of my time. It's far better. When I graduate and start working as a software developer, I'm only taking jobs that let me work from home 2/3 days a week or give me full flexi-time.Companies will save millions by passing the burden of workspace to you and then cut your salaries. Remote work will hurt employees in almost every instance. It blows my mind how many people here don't see this.
I wonder how much they would cut someone's salary based on their location.
The tax excuse seems like bullshit.
Why the fuck would they "adjust" salaries based on location??? How does this impact the value of their work?
Is this just pure bullshit or am I missing something?
I'm not really getting the outrage (well, I mean that isn't true), Facebook pay their staff very well, they will continue to, and this is an option that will suit a lot of people.
Eh, it's not as much of a burden as you think. You already have a house/apartment to live in. It's not some extra space you're having to lease (though those options do exist if you want).Companies will save millions by passing the burden of workspace to you and then cut your salaries. Remote work will hurt employees in almost every instance. It blows my mind how many people here don't see this.
Yup. I'm dying to have meetings with people in person. It's so much easier to communicate ideas and coach your colleagues.most people actually do prefer face to face interactions even in tech companies. Most devs are not as introverted and/or anti-social as the stereotypes go especially when it comes to team projects.
I wonder how much they would cut someone's salary based on their location.
The tax excuse seems like bullshit.
And Bingo again. I have saved a ton of money the last 3 months. To get this to continue longterm would be a windfall.
It depends on job expectations. If you are to be a on a call all day, or work with sensitive matters, you may be expected to be able to be away/close the door. And someone with roomates/spouse/children in the home may not have such a space. High speed internet is not reliably available in many areas and video calls can be demanding on bandwidth. There are some subtleties that shift the burden for some, but overall I think you are right, it is mostly doable.Eh, it's not as much of a burden as you think. You already have a house/apartment to live in. It's not some extra space you're having to lease (though those options do exist if you want).
I've lost money having to upgrade my work stations to be even close to par with the amenities in the office. Electric usage has skyrocketed, all groceries bills have dramatically increased.
Typing it all in caps doesn't make this sentiment not stupid.WORKING FROM HOME IS BASICALLY GIVING COMPANY FREE PASS TO OUTSOURCE
I think people are being overly dramatic. Facebook isn't going to drastically halve pay for people moving to the South. It'll likely be a ~20k difference at most. They pay a fuck ton of money already!
Facebook sucks but they've never been that shitty at pay for these type of roles.
Your grocery bills went up? Ok. So did mine, but my lunch budget tanked. Not eating out every day has been much cheaper.
I'm aware of the regional differences but don't see how cutting wages based on location of living would benefit anyone but the company. The company receives the same quality work, it has to pay less for renting, insurance etc. They can pay the living cost adjusted salary now, what are they doing with the money they save that directly benefits the employees?Why do you think the salaries are so high in the Bay Area to begin with? They are high because they account for the cost of living of the location.
Man, this thread just shows that people continue to not understand how the cost of living impacts things and how you need to factor that in when looking at things like how much someone makes. No wonder so many people think making 6 figures makes you rich when they still can't grasp why the salaries are high to begin with as a result of the cost of living. I bet people would be shocked that the cost of a gallon of milk varies significantly depending on where you live and think milk costs the same everywhere.
be my guestRemind me to necro this thread in two years when FB is paying people in Ohio $40-50k for the same job that pays 100+ in SF.
At my company, the devs are fine with staying and wfh. The sales and marketing people are the ones who wanna come in the most tbh.most people actually do prefer face to face interactions even in tech companies. Most devs are not as introverted and/or anti-social as the stereotypes go especially when it comes to team projects.
Remind me to necro this thread in two years when FB is paying people in Ohio $40-50k for the same job that pays 100+ in SF.
most people actually do prefer face to face interactions even in tech companies. Most devs are not as introverted and/or anti-social as the stereotypes go especially when it comes to team projects.
I'm aware of the regional differences but don't see how cutting wages based on location of living would benefit anyone but the company. The company receives the same quality work, it has to pay less for renting, insurance etc. They can pay the living cost adjusted salary now, what are they doing with the money they save that benefits the employees?
Your grocery bills went up? Ok. So did mine, but my lunch budget tanked. Not eating out every day has been much cheaper.
As for equipment, I already had what I needed, but my company let us come in and grab whatever we wanted from our desks.
I'm looking at my budget and my bills and I'm way ahead of the game. 🤷‍♂️
They save money in renting office place and power, yet want to decrease the wage of those who wfh?
wouldnt they need to pay each of their workers extra on top depending on their location because a) office place, b) connection, c) additional power usage.
WORKING FROM HOME IS BASICALLY GIVING COMPANY FREE PASS TO OUTSOURCE
Remind me to necro this thread in two years when FB is paying people in Ohio $40-50k for the same job that pays 100+ in SF.
They save money in renting office place and power, yet want to decrease the wage of those who wfh?
wouldnt they need to pay each of their workers extra on top depending on their location because a) office place, b) connection, c) additional power usage.
FB wants the top talent available in the world.
This isn't gonna change, and they're not gonna cheap out.
Building billion-scale codebases, you do not skimp on talent pay.
Holy fuck the ignorance in this thread lmfaoRemind me to necro this thread in two years when FB is paying people in Ohio $40-50k for the same job that pays 100+ in SF.