It's an awkward one, but I actually use it the other way around. At the end of the interview when I have a chance to ask my own questions I often ask my interviewers what it is about this company in particular that makes them personally want to work there. The answers can be quite illuminating and actually were a large part of the reason I chose my current role.
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'Expected salary' questions on job applications are ridiculous
- Thread starter fracas
- Start date
It's an awkward one, but I actually use it the other way around. At the end of the interview when I have a chance to ask my own questions I often ask my interviewers what it is about this company in particular that makes them personally want to work there. The answers can be quite illuminating and actually were a large part of the reason I chose my current role.
This becomes better when/if you get to a point in your career to where you need recruiters to get your next position. Less haggling over figures because the recruiter already knows the range the employer is willing to pay.
And again, that can be solved very simply by the company not playing coy with the salary expectations and listing a range as part of the posting. That way applicants know what they're getting into. And some applicants who were offered would likely negotiate anyway - but at least you're initially closer and transparent on the general expectation up front. So someone looking for double would naturally move on anyway.
Next week I'll have been in my industry for 18 years and in management for 14 of those years so the expected salary question takes on a different form than it did in the beginning of my career. I know exactly what my range is, I know exactly what I'd be looking for to move.
That said, the question that doesn't come up nearly enough in any negotiations are the rest of the compensation. Benefits, 401(k), etc. People have a tendency to get hung up on the most simple stats (shocking I know) and neglect to put all the pieces together into what it would actually look like. Same reason that I won't include my salary as some kind of humblebrag because salary means nothing in a vacuum.
I could make significantly more in gross salary than I do right now and have a significantly lower quality of life. I could make significantly more in bonus money than I do and have significantly less in total compensation. On the flip side, I could move to other parts of the country, take less gross salary to do it and exceed my current quality of life. It's all a balance. Judging solely by the top number is irresponsible at absolute best.
That said, the question that doesn't come up nearly enough in any negotiations are the rest of the compensation. Benefits, 401(k), etc. People have a tendency to get hung up on the most simple stats (shocking I know) and neglect to put all the pieces together into what it would actually look like. Same reason that I won't include my salary as some kind of humblebrag because salary means nothing in a vacuum.
I could make significantly more in gross salary than I do right now and have a significantly lower quality of life. I could make significantly more in bonus money than I do and have significantly less in total compensation. On the flip side, I could move to other parts of the country, take less gross salary to do it and exceed my current quality of life. It's all a balance. Judging solely by the top number is irresponsible at absolute best.
the worst is when you are applying for a job a in another State/City that has higher cost of living and you have no idea what to ask for
once I got a job offer in NYC and they asked me what i wanted, I calculated rent in the city centre and I jacked the expected salary really high.....
they never called me back, LOL
once I got a job offer in NYC and they asked me what i wanted, I calculated rent in the city centre and I jacked the expected salary really high.....
they never called me back, LOL
Check glass door or another service to see the mean salary for your position in the area. Then add about 10% to it for negotiation. Make sure to factor in things like seniority and experience.
That reminds me of when I applied to this printing company last April. I got called in for a second interview with the floor manager. I had written down $13/hour because I thought it was reasonable on the initial application. The floor manager mentioned that the position would have a ton of overtime but it started at $10 and he asked me if I could change the amount I wanted on the application. Well, he didn't ask me outright. He more hinted at it and put a pen on the application next to the field.
On top of that, they made me do a drug test before I got the job. It was really, really weird.
On top of that, they made me do a drug test before I got the job. It was really, really weird.
I'd have absolutely no problem with this at all. Unfortunately, our company doesn't do that.
Yes total compensation is a valid line of questioning too. But if a company is playing coy about the salary itself, I'd have low confidence that they'd be able to answer questions like 401k matching rates, health insurance premiums/coverages, and other benefits.
Seems like a question designed to just to stroke their own ego.
I can understand why the interest in the industry. But the company?
-It pays money
-Your reputation is likely not complete trash
It's a bullshit question that's asked for 2 primary reasons:
1) To pass you over if your salary expectations are too above their range (below the range is perfectly fine of course)
2) To have yet another leg up in negotiations as there is now a major asymmetry of information with regards to salary
Neither one helps out the applicant. For these reasons I put in "Negotiable", "000" or leave the space blank. If I'm forced to show my hand first I will make sure that I have done my research and will put in a premium as others have mentioned.
Still a bullshit question and if you absolutely need a new job at that moment you may end up selling yourself short. Just as the company wanted.
1) To pass you over if your salary expectations are too above their range (below the range is perfectly fine of course)
2) To have yet another leg up in negotiations as there is now a major asymmetry of information with regards to salary
Neither one helps out the applicant. For these reasons I put in "Negotiable", "000" or leave the space blank. If I'm forced to show my hand first I will make sure that I have done my research and will put in a premium as others have mentioned.
Still a bullshit question and if you absolutely need a new job at that moment you may end up selling yourself short. Just as the company wanted.
See I would expect (and have witnessed) the polar opposite. The 401(k) matching is based off a % of base pay. As such, they can talk about it without saying you'll make $X in 401(k) contributions. Benefits would be slightly more difficult, but would expect an answer to the kinds of benefits available along with a rough guideline of what their contributing percentage is. Being that there's so many theoretical insurance combinations (types as well as single/spouse/family/etc), I'd have some more flexibility there, but still. If there were commuter benefits, I'd expect those to be disclosed freely as again, there's no direction relation to salary. If there's a bonus structure, same thing and the list goes on and on.
So by the time we get to talking base salary, I now have a decent enough idea of what the (far more important) total compensation vs. my bottom line would look like.
To bring this full circle, I'd be far more concerned about a potential employer not willing to discuss total compensation than one who asked something as relatively innocuous as my expected salary range as again, my salary alone means nothing in a vacuum.
Edit to add: thinking about this, I think we're approaching from 2 different points in the process. I'm looking at this from the standpoint of there already being mutual interest and now getting into the negotiations. If the expected salary question is a dealbreaker earlier in the process, then it is what it is I'd guess. Different strokes for different folks. For me having done this for so long, I know the general range before even taking my first step in the process. It's the finer points that will determine whether it's the right move.
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This is such an interesting thread. I hope I don't have to look for another job soon but it's a possibility as I work for a small, niche company and our bills are increasing while our invoices are decreasing.
I think companies should put a range though. Someone mentioned earlier that if the range is posted, everyone is going to ask for the top of that range. That's expected and should be easy for the company to counter. Not everyone is qualified for the highest range. Will someone get butthurt hearing that, of course. But I've been in middle management and in my experience, there's a huge range in the quality of employees.
I think companies should put a range though. Someone mentioned earlier that if the range is posted, everyone is going to ask for the top of that range. That's expected and should be easy for the company to counter. Not everyone is qualified for the highest range. Will someone get butthurt hearing that, of course. But I've been in middle management and in my experience, there's a huge range in the quality of employees.
Yeah, this would strictly be up front, early in the process. I may know my general range, but that doesn't mean I have any clue what the company is thinking. Yes, you can try to cobble things together with Glassdoor and similar companies, but hearing it straight from the employer would be very beneficial. A lot of that can be solved by the company putting in a salary range for the position. As far as those other benefits, I sometimes find if the company is proud of what they offer, they put it on their HR site for all to see.
And yes total compensation is an important thing, but sometimes cash is simply king. A company could have a great insurance premium rate, 401k matching and other perks, but the actual salary just be not sustainable. That depends on your situation, of course. All the more important in knowing the salary so that a total calculation and comparison can be made versus the current employer and other potential future employers.
Tangentially related, this is why finding yourself overqualified in an interview is such a death sentence. If the position is only a step or two above entry level, it seems like most places rather bank on someone who's a recent grad that looks to be more coachable and can be paid less rather than pay something with tons of experience at a premium. Even if you're willing to take a pay cut.....which is its own bag of worms because it can signal that you'll walk first chance you get once someone offers you something better that's more aligned with your qualifications so they won't take the risk anyway.
1. It's not "passing someone over" if they want or expect more money than you have to offer for the role. Why would you keep talking to someone about a job if you can't pay them what they have stated they expect? If I have $100k for a role and they expect $140k, it's a waste of their time for me to keep talking to them. As a hiring manager the convo I've had goes like this:
"What is your salary expectation?"
"My expectaton is $X"
"That's a good bit outside of our range for this role. I can only go as high as $Y for this role - are you still interested in discussing it further?"
"No, that doesn't work for me but good luck in your job search"
2. When I'm hiring I state clearly that I have an approved range for a role and share what that range is. I am clear that just because that range included a top-end number it doesn't mean that every applicant can command that top end number - almost all roles I've filled have the flexibility to be filled with someone more veteran or someone more green, and it's their experience level that informs what the offer salary will ultimately be.
Yea I just take what I'm making now and then add like 15%, which is what I'd like to make and then add 5-10% for negotiations. If they scoff and say "That's too high!" then I probably don't want to work for them anyways, if they scoff and say "That's too low" then I'll take the extra bump. Which has happened a couple times...
Asking too much is fine, I did that for my current job, I asked for more than they were willing to pay, they told me their max, I said I needed a tad more, they found a few thousand more.
Always write 'negotiable'
These days with recruiters I'm up front with salary requirements. But I have 15 years of experience and I'm in a senior role so I'm not fucking with low paying jobs in my field. The ones who are cagey with estimates I just don't bother. Like if they won't share an estimate or range for the role without me going thru an interview I'm like... No, go hire the next schlub and don't waste my time.
On an application tho I'd write negotiable.
These days with recruiters I'm up front with salary requirements. But I have 15 years of experience and I'm in a senior role so I'm not fucking with low paying jobs in my field. The ones who are cagey with estimates I just don't bother. Like if they won't share an estimate or range for the role without me going thru an interview I'm like... No, go hire the next schlub and don't waste my time.
On an application tho I'd write negotiable.
