'Expected salary' questions on job applications are ridiculous

fracas · Jan 7, 2020

I'm looking for jobs closer to my very old parents to maximize the time we have left. I've only filled out a few apps but man, that is such a frustrating question to answer. I don't want to sell myself short and potentially lose out on money but I also don't want to aim too high and look ridiculous.

Any advice? I'm guessing it ultimately doesn't matter too much; if a place really wants me, then they'll negotiate, right? I know I'm worth more than I make at the moment.

Liquidsnake · Jan 7, 2020

Its becoming more and more illegal to ask here in the US, city by city state by state are starting to outlaw them.

MPrice · Jan 7, 2020

"Negotiable" has always worked for me.

shadowsdarknes · Jan 7, 2020

I don't care for it. But put what you think your worth is.

Xando · Jan 7, 2020

fracas said:
Any advice? I'm guessing it ultimately doesn't matter too much; if a place really wants me, then they'll negotiate, right? I know I'm worth more than I make at the moment.

Always go too high (not outlandish tho) and think about what you're willing to go to in a negotiation before it. I always do that and everytime got a higher salary than what i was willing to accept.

TrubbleFrog · Jan 7, 2020

What field are you in? In my experience finding salaries for similar positions on LinkedIn / Glassdoor and increasing it by 5% / 10% for questions like these has worked.

fracas · Jan 7, 2020

Liquidsnake said:
Its becoming more and more illegal to ask here in the US, city by city state by state are starting to outlaw them.

Thank the lord. I might be misremembering but I thought employers weren't OK to ask what you currently make and this is sort of a slimy way to get around that.

MPrice said:
"Negotiable" has always worked for me.

I'll have to try that. Hopefully the dialog box doesn't require a number, haha.

TrubbleFrog said:
What field are you in? In my experience finding salaries for similar positions on LinkedIn / Glassdoor and increasing it by 5% / 10% for questions like these has worked.

Higher ed PR/marketing. I've only been in this industry for a year (graduated three years ago and worked in news before this), but we've had a TON of success this past year and I'd like to think I'm pretty damn good at it.

captive · Jan 7, 2020

we've discussed this here before and Ill say now what i said then. Always ask for their range. Them asking your expected salary is them hoping they can get someone for cheaper than their range.

shadowsdarknes said:
I don't care for it. But put what you think your worth is.

the problem with this, is women and minorities are often paid much less than white men, and thus don't know what they're actually worth.

Deleted member 13645 · Jan 7, 2020

MPrice said:
"Negotiable" has always worked for me.

I've had quite a few where they only accept numeric input. I've started putting something like 0 on them. If that's enough for them to reject my application then good riddance.

opus · Jan 7, 2020

I don't know what types of jobs you're looking for, but I never talk salary until I have an offer. There are definitely ways to push people off of it gently, and good recruiters know when not to push the issue. But I'm also usually working with internal recruiters directly. I also don't answer questions about my current salary.

If I were applying somewhere cold through a website, I'd either leave it blank, or write 'negotiable'. Either way, don't talk salary this early in the process.

nsilvias · Jan 7, 2020

they are there so they have an excuse to underpay you

Deleted member 1086 · Jan 7, 2020

yeah no kidding. Like what do you want me to put $1 million an hour or what? Because I'd love that.

CopyOfACopy · Jan 7, 2020

"All of it"

ToddBonzalez · Jan 7, 2020

fracas said:
I'm looking for jobs closer to my very old parents to maximize the time we have left. I've only filled out a few apps but man, that is such a frustrating question to answer. I don't want to sell myself short and potentially lose out on money but I also don't want to aim too high and look ridiculous.

Any advice? I'm guessing it ultimately doesn't matter too much; if a place really wants me, then they'll negotiate, right? I know I'm worth more than I make at the moment.

Yeah it's bullshit. I typically look on Glassdoor to get a rough sense of what the pay for the role is, then list the high end of that. Aim high (within reason), and see what offer they give you.

kickz · Jan 7, 2020

Put in 20% higher than what you would be fine with.

PanickyFool · Jan 7, 2020

Xando said:
Always go too high (not outlandish tho) and think about what you're willing to go to in a negotiation before it. I always do that and everytime got a higher salary than what i was willing to accept.

This is incorrect. Expected salary is a auto-filter. Always enter 0.

Xando · Jan 7, 2020

PanickyFool said:
This is incorrect. Expected salary is a auto-filter. Always enter 0.

If a company auto filters you because you entered the wrong number it's a shitty company anyway.

I always go 5-10k too high and never had any issues.

shadowsdarknes · Jan 7, 2020

captive said:
we've discussed this here before and Ill say now what i said then. Always ask for their range. Them asking your expected salary is them hoping they can get someone for cheaper than their range.

the problem with this, is women and minorities are often paid much less than white men, and thus don't know what they're actually worth.

It can definitely be hard to determine what you are actually worth. But if you're in a current job and getting paid X, any additional responsibility or extra experience you might bring to the role can help you get an idea of what you deserve to be compensated.

If you're in a field that has upward mobility, and you bring a few years of experience in that field, it may not be too difficult to figure out what you can earn in terms of compensation.

Onebadlion · Jan 7, 2020

Put down a conservative, but realistic amount, then negotiate if they offer.
I agree. It's a bullshit question

Dougald · Jan 7, 2020

I interviewed somewhere last year where they insisted on knowing my then-current salary, and told me they'd require proof. I walked.

Legal or not, companies don't like employees talking about their pay so I say that goes both ways.

Deleted member 5359 · Jan 7, 2020

I leave that shit blank or fill in 'negotiable'

sgtnosboss · Jan 7, 2020

fracas said:
I'm looking for jobs closer to my very old parents to maximize the time we have left. I've only filled out a few apps but man, that is such a frustrating question to answer. I don't want to sell myself short and potentially lose out on money but I also don't want to aim too high and look ridiculous.

Any advice? I'm guessing it ultimately doesn't matter too much; if a place really wants me, then they'll negotiate, right? I know I'm worth more than I make at the moment.

its been a long time, but I used leave it blank.

you should definitely just put "all of it" /s

Deleted member 13798 · Jan 7, 2020

MPrice said:
"Negotiable" has always worked for me.

Some online apps require numbers.

Dice · Jan 7, 2020

shadowsdarknes said:
I don't care for it. But put what you think your worth is.

"Maximum wage!"

finalflame · Jan 7, 2020

captive said:
we've discussed this here before and Ill say now what i said then. Always ask for their range. Them asking your expected salary is them hoping they can get someone for cheaper than their range.

Yup, I always ask for a range during discussions with a recruiter where they ask for pay requirements. Then I tell them I'm on the higher end of their range, and will discuss further if we get to the offer stage.

But my industry is pretty transparent and non-traditional with regards to compensation discussions.

CrankyJay · Jan 7, 2020

Liquidsnake said:
Its becoming more and more illegal to ask here in the US, city by city state by state are starting to outlaw them.

that's about salaries at your previous jobs. Not what you expect.

Deleted member 32561 · Jan 7, 2020

It feels like a trap. Ask for too much, they can say "we won't pay you that much, you're a bad match, we're not hiring you". Ask for too little, they screw you when they could feasibly pay you more, or even worse, they think because you undervalue yourself that you really are a slacker or not good at what you do.

If it was literally just asking how you personally value your work to help YOU out, and you don't ask for something outlandish, that'd be one thing, but it just feels like they're asking you to roll the dice and land on the exact right amount they'll agree to and isn't undervaluing you.

Doran · Jan 7, 2020

It is the worst when the application has a range too, like they advertise 45000 - 65000, so when they ask how much salary you expect, I think they are trying to get you to write 45000 in order to increase your odds at the job.

Septimus Prime · Jan 7, 2020

The luckiest I got with this was when I once left it blank, and then the recruiter was like, "So I have you down here with the expectation of (something way higher than what I was thinking)." So I was like, "Okay, yeah."

thesoapster · Jan 7, 2020

Numbers can be decently distributed for the same position at different companies. I try and go with what I think I'd want and add a bit extra (10-20%). If they outright scoff and reject rather than negotiate, they're not worth your time most likely.

I tried "negotiable" with many companies when I was looking. Most wouldn't take it and wanted a number. The majority of the time I was close to what they'd offer...under, actually. (It's what happens when you've been undervalued for the better part of a decade.)

Liquidsnake · Jan 7, 2020

CrankyJay said:
that's about salaries at your previous jobs. Not what you expect.

A lot of the law's specifically mention that companies must make known what the salary range is. CA for example is one of those states.

captive · Jan 7, 2020

shadowsdarknes said:
It can definitely be hard to determine what you are actually worth. But if you're in a current job and getting paid X, any additional responsibility or extra experience you might bring to the role can help you get an idea of what you deserve to be compensated.

If you're in a field that has upward mobility, and you bring a few years of experience in that field, it may not be too difficult to figure out what you can earn in terms of compensation.

again i dont think your understanding.

if your getting underpaid for your role you don't understand what your worth. I've seen it time and time again on tech twitter where women are enlightened to what their male counter parts are making and its often tens of thousands of dollar difference.

Earthstrike · Jan 7, 2020

PanickyFool said:
This is incorrect. Expected salary is a auto-filter. Always enter 0.

Is this a practice standardized across the industry? Also, does this mean I can also use it as a filter if I am applying for several positions and only want interviews above an expected salary?

baron doggystyle von woof · Jan 7, 2020

kickz said:
Put in 20% higher than what you would be fine with.

This has always worked for me.

metalfearsolid · Jan 7, 2020

MPrice said:
"Negotiable" has always worked for me.

I feel like they want a number so they can automatically filter you out if you are higher than what they want.

Masoyama · Jan 7, 2020

I have never had a job accept my first offer LOL. I always shoot above what I know is reasonable by like 20% and then negotiate. Last Job I had I asked for $25k above what I knew was their usual offer and ended up getting a reasonable ammount more than other people that started at the same position as me.

shadowsdarknes · Jan 7, 2020

captive said:
again i dont think your understanding.

if your getting underpaid for your role you don't understand what your worth. I've seen it time and time again on tech twitter where women are enlightened to what their male counter parts are making and its often tens of thousands of dollar difference.

I'm simply saying that if you're applying for a new job, get paid what you want to make.
If you are making X and you want to be making Y and you feel that your experience combined with increased responsibility, then ask for Y.

Whether you're underpaid or overpaid for your role, it's a good idea to discuss with future employers (or on a job application) what you think you're worth.

Netherscourge · Jan 7, 2020

I put -5K lower than my salary at my last job, and they gave me +1.5K more than my asking price.

So it came out -3.5K a year than my previous salary. But they gave me a raise after 3 months and now I'm +1K over my last job's salary.

I don't think it was anything other than luck. But I'm happy.

I do believe asking for less than my previous salary helped me over other candidates. If I had asked for my previous salary, or even more, I don't think they'd have hired me.

But I was already making a lot for my field to begin with, so I can't complain. I have a better job and more money with better benefits now. Just had to play the salary game for 3 months.

Deleted member 41178 · Jan 7, 2020

opus said:
I don't know what types of jobs you're looking for, but I never talk salary until I have an offer. There are definitely ways to push people off of it gently, and good recruiters know when not to push the issue. But I'm also usually working with internal recruiters directly. I also don't answer questions about my current salary.

If I were applying somewhere cold through a website, I'd either leave it blank, or write 'negotiable'. Either way, don't talk salary this early in the process.

At when stage would you start discussing salary then, I wouldn't even contemplate attending an interview or talking to a company unless I knew the salary range.

I definitely need to know it before the offer otherwise we could be wasting each others time.

Maximo · Jan 7, 2020

Yeah for fuck sake tell me how much the job pays not how much I think it will.

Chasex · Jan 7, 2020

I've never put in a job application but would probably just put 0 if it is a required field constrained to digits. Fuck them.

Work with a recruiter instead of blindly putting in applications if you can. Find one on LinkedIn it's pretty easy. Or just anyone that works there and see if they'll put in a rec, often times they get bonuses.

TheMango55 · Jan 7, 2020

Netherscourge · Jan 7, 2020

These days, you can check the glassdoor.com website for crowdsourced salary info for a lot of companies, direct from anonymous employees. That'll give you a safe ballpark range to work with, if the job posting doesn't show the salary for the position.

julia crawford · Jan 7, 2020

My answer was actually smaller than what i ended up receiving, so i'm not sure if my answer changed anything 🤔

FILE_ID.DIZ · Jan 7, 2020

Just do like Loc Dog. "Three million dollars... cash."

Van Bur3n · Jan 7, 2020

Always shoot high.

cecilpaladin32 · Jan 7, 2020

Masoyama said:
I have never had a job accept my first offer LOL. I always shoot above what I know is reasonable by like 20% and then negotiate. Last Job I had I asked for $25k above what I knew was their usual offer and ended up getting a reasonable ammount more than other people that started at the same position as me.

I've learned the hard way that employers often lowball you and you should typically never go in with a "good faith" number to counter this, so this sounds like sound advice to me. Even better if the company truly negotiates without taking a hardline stance.

Funnily enough, I lucked out recently by not doing this and getting exactly what I asked for; I asked for 5k more than what I would have settled with (but still felt had some chance and was in good faith), and I wound up getting it - based on what I've seen, it's near the top of the band for the title. First time in my life I haven't been lowballed right out of the gate and it was very refreshing. Can't wait to start soon.

ErrorJustin · Jan 7, 2020

As a hiring manager, expected salary is not always a way to squeeze money out of desperate applicants or save the company some money.

There's a calculus of someone's experience and value that comes into play.

For almost every single role I've hired for there is one applicant that is a home run, AAA candidate, but they're more experienced and command a higher salary, often outside of what our stated range is. Then there is also a much cheaper, more junior candidate that may be ready to step into a bigger role if they get the right support or mentoring.

So if there's someone we think would be super effective, but is asking for $10k above what we have approved for the role (or whatever) I have to decide how critical that it is I go back to the Big Bosses to ask for more for the role, going to bat for them, or if I should keep looking.

But I've also had people share salary expectations that were 30%+ more than what we have for the role so it's important to know that up front so we don't waste each others' time.

Mansa Mufasa · Jan 7, 2020

As someone on the HR side of things. We ask because we work within a certain budget as to not waste time. It is what it is. You don't have to give them your salary or expected range but it can be pretty irritable to have a good conversation with someone and then to get rebuffed for asking what their Targeting for a Salary.

Even more irritable for both sides when they get through the hiring process and things fall apart in the 11th hour because theres a huge gap in Salary Expectations, Budget and Stretch Budgets.

Though if you're in a HIGHLY competitive market like San Fran, I would hold that info close to the chest because EVERYONE GOT MONEY.

GoldenEye 007 · Jan 7, 2020

Mansa Mufasa said:
As someone on the HR side of things. We ask because we work within a certain budget as to not waste time. It is what it is. You don't have to give them your salary or expected range but it can be pretty irritable to have a good conversation with someone and then to get rebuffed for asking what their Targeting for a Salary.

Even more irritable for both sides when they get through the hiring process and things fall apart in the 11th hour because theres a huge gap in Salary Expectations, Budget and Stretch Budgets.

Though if you're in a HIGHLY competitive market like San Fran, I would hold that info close to the chest because EVERYONE GOT MONEY.

Seems like the easy thing would be for the company to just post their range so that people know what to expect before even applying.

'Expected salary' questions on job applications are ridiculous

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