Examples of when character design doesn't mesh with characterization?

BossAttack · May 22, 2020

This could be a fun thread, what are some examples of character designs that don't at all mesh with the actual characterization of the character including their personality and backstory? I feel like female characters will easily take the cake here, what with boob windows and all. But there are also plenty of male characters that suffer from this. This is not about sexualization, as a skimpy character design can be in-sync if a character is supposed to have a "sexy" personality (even if still problematic). This is about character designs being grossly out of proportion with a character's actual characterization.

My first pick is Adam Jensen. I love Adam Jensen. I also love his edgy cyberpunk design. But, this motherfucker is an ex-cop that eats cereal while watching baseball. He doesn't strike me as a dude that cares about fashion. In fact, he never once comments about fashion in all the time you play as him. Rather, he appears to be a kind of utilitarian type of guy. YET, this is how he dresses:

These are his apartments:

Nahhhhhh. We know for a fact that no one else in his apartment complexes have places that look like that, this was an intentional choice on the part of Adam. Now, he would likely have the money working for Sariff and all. But, it still means he likely intentionally chose to hire an interior decorator to decorate his entire apartment. Or he has the design instincts of an experienced interior decorator. This is kino apartment design and fashion. Goddamn ACRONYM jackets and turtlenecks. Through all this we can only be lead to believe that Jensen likes to spend money and look fucking baller at all times when everything about his character says the opposite.

UnluckyKate · May 22, 2020

first thing I thought seeing the title was the " bad guy " from Deus Ex, MD :

Looks like a typical bad brute.

Opens with a shakespear line. Ok, you go for subversion between design and persona okay.
next line is " YEAH I'M SMARTER THAN I LOOK "

So on the nose, so forced. All subtility shot on orbit
How to fail at writting a character 101...

Raigor · May 22, 2020

A2 and 2B the thread?

Platy · May 22, 2020

BossAttack said:
This is not about sexualization, as a skimpy character design can be in-sync if a character is supposed to have a "sexy" personality (even if still problematic).

The problem is that 90% they are pure virgins =P

And of the other 10% you have people like Bayonetta, which is a which that has power that comes from her hair ... AND SHE HAS A SHORT HAIR IN THE SEQUEL

WellbornWarrior · May 22, 2020

But aren't the Acronym clothes pretty durable and have a focus on function over form? Doesn't seem far fetched that Adam would wear something like that.

XaviConcept · May 22, 2020

Vaan, from FF XII

(On mobile so its harder to post an image)

he looks too much like a pretty pop star, being beautiful is fine but his look and wardrobe, pants specially, is too manicured.

Penelos outfit is also kind of out of place, not very "this is what youd wear if you grew up in a giant desert city" but its not as egregious as Vaans

BossAttack · May 22, 2020

WellbornWarrior said:
But aren't the Acronym clothes pretty durable and have a focus on function over form? Doesn't seem far fetched that Adam would wear something like that.

ACRONYM is hella expensive and while durable its also highly fashionable. There are plenty of durable/tactile clothing Adam could wear that is far less expensive. Yet, he chooses super expensive ACRONYM, a clothing company only fashionistas know about.

WellbornWarrior · May 22, 2020

BossAttack said:
ACRONYM is hella expensive and while durable its also highly fashionable. There are plenty of durable/tactile clothing Adam could wear that is far less expensive. Yet, he chooses super expensive ACRONYM, a clothing company only fashionistas know about.

Maybe Adam has a knack for fashion? It's never outright denied in the games. Or Acronym has become mainstream and therefore cheaper in the future.

Siggy-P · May 22, 2020

I always felt Jensen was supposed to come across as pretentious but they never quite went far enough with it. They tried to lean into it in the sequel but not far enough.

You see hints of it with e-mails about his clothes shipping in all the way from China, how he likes to wax poetry about the way augments are treated despite outclassing everyone with his own. How he gets instantly extremely defensive when called out by the pherapist but is way too nice and open with the doey eyed pretty girl who runs the armory(was it the admorey?).

But that's about as far as it gets. The game doesn't wanna commit to it. Which is a shame cus it's actually kind of a unique take of that is what they were going for.

Anyway I nominate Booker Dewitt.

MV5BZTM3YTgxYTUtYzk1Mi00MzYxLTlhZGYtZjM2M2ZlYThmMDhjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMjM5NzU3OTM@._V1_UY1200_CR108,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg

Booker is a thug. He's a paid thug who's down on his luck. An alcoholic. An addict. Suffering from severe depression over the loss of his wife and daughter an regret over the actions of his life.

He was a murder as well. Committed war Crimea and burnt native Americans Alive. Was paid to violently assault and murder union protesters. He was the scummiest of the scum.

And yet, we are presented with a good looking guy with a likable personality and sense of humour. People talk about the violence in the game but they're wrong. Because booker is an incredibly violent man. The problem is that the story wants us to see a violent man but from the start to the end we're presented with an a-typical hero who is in the right dying the short time that we play as him.

The collectible audio logs describe a complete monster. The game shows a typical action hero who seems too harsh on himself.

We should have gotten a mean spirited asshole. Someone who doesn't take no for an answer and is difficult to see any redemption in. Not the guy in the picture.

DragonKeeper · May 22, 2020

Blindfold yourself and throw a dart at female JRPG characters. You have a excellent chance of hitting one.

Vault · May 22, 2020

Princess Ashe

ClickyCal' · May 22, 2020

Quiet

Deleted member 16908 · May 22, 2020

< insert fan-servicey Japanese game here >

The Unsent · May 22, 2020

Probably too obvious, but in JRPGs when characters complain it's too cold, hold their elbows and look like they're more dressed for the beach.

DiipuSurotu · May 22, 2020

Igniz12 · May 22, 2020

Vault said:
Princess Ashe

This is the one I would nominate as well. The promo material made her seem completely different to the ingame character who was one of the three main leaders of the group. And her personality is nothing like the above image portrayed. Even to this day everytime I see this image I can't help but think how odd it looks. I imagine this is a result of some pretty heavy rewrites or just dumb marketing.

Zacmortar · May 22, 2020

Nier Automata the thread

Its one of the biggest reasons i dont really like 2B or yorha in general, especially with Anemone having one of the best character designs ever and being relegated to a background character

AND after Kaine, whose string clothes actually DID have a pretty great and in character reasoning.

DiipuSurotu · May 22, 2020

Igniz12 said:
This is the one I would nominate as well. The promo material made her seem completely different to the ingame character who was one of the three main leaders of the group. And her personality is nothing like the above image portrayed. Even to this day everytime I see this image I can't help but think how odd it looks. I imagine this is a result of some pretty heavy rewrites or just dumb marketing.

Nose Tapping - TV Tropes

When a character taps their nose, they "know" something. This seems to be a western cultural thing; in Asian cultures, pointing to the nose (or the face in general) is equivalent to the Western gesture of gesturing at your chest to indicate you' …

tvtropes.org

Manu · May 22, 2020

Velvet from Tales of Berseria

I could excuse this design if she was some sort of sexual, seductress demon that preys on men, but she's as sexless as they come.

She's well written too for a JRPG, so it's a shame. I actually really like her as a character.

Freeglader · May 22, 2020

Igniz12 said:
This is the one I would nominate as well. The promo material made her seem completely different to the ingame character who was one of the three main leaders of the group. And her personality is nothing like the above image portrayed. Even to this day everytime I see this image I can't help but think how odd it looks. I imagine this is a result of some pretty heavy rewrites or just dumb marketing.

Wait a minute, a hot pink mini skirt doesn't scream grieving widow consumed by a desire for vengeance to you?

Platy · May 22, 2020

Also, it is funny how Kirby both fits and don't fits this thread at the same time

Dr. Ludwig · May 22, 2020

Siggy-P said:
I always felt Jensen was supposed to come across as pretentious but they never quite went far enough with it. They tried to lean into it in the sequel but not far enough.

You see hints of it with e-mails about his clothes shipping in all the way from China, how he likes to wax poetry about the way augments are treated despite outclassing everyone with his own. How he gets instantly extremely defensive when called out by the pherapist but is way too nice and open with the doey eyed pretty girl who runs the armory(was it the admorey?).

But that's about as far as it gets. The game doesn't wanna commit to it. Which is a shame cus it's actually kind of a unique take of that is what they were going for.

Anyway I nominate Booker Dewitt.

Booker is a thug. He's a paid thug who's down on his luck. An alcoholic. An addict. Suffering from severe depression over the loss of his wife and daughter an regret over the actions of his life.

He was a murder as well. Committed war Crimea and burnt native Americans Alive. Was paid to violently assault and murder union protesters. He was the scummiest of the scum.

And yet, we are presented with a good looking guy with a likable personality and sense of humour. People talk about the violence in the game but they're wrong. Because booker is an incredibly violent man. The problem is that the story wants us to see a violent man but from the start to the end we're presented with an a-typical hero who is in the right dying the short time that we play as him.

The collectible audio logs describe a complete monster. The game shows a typical action hero who seems too harsh on himself.

We should have gotten a mean spirited asshole. Someone who doesn't take no for an answer and is difficult to see any redemption in. Not the guy in the picture.

Thank you for bringing him up. I consider Booker to be a complete disaster in terms of character writing.

The game is throwing these horrific events at the player as if it was someone describing yesterday's lunch during work.

None of them are discussed or tackled in any meaningful way.

Akainu · May 22, 2020

DiipuSurotu said:
Nose Tapping - TV Tropes

When a character taps their nose, they "know" something. This seems to be a western cultural thing; in Asian cultures, pointing to the nose (or the face in general) is equivalent to the Western gesture of gesturing at your chest to indicate you' …

tvtropes.org

Its the cutesy bowlegged thing.

Dark_Castle · May 22, 2020

DiipuSurotu said:
Tifa

Huh? Tifa has reservations and doubts about helping Avalanche, but she is otherwise an outgoing, pro-active character, and she works in bar. Not sure how her sporty, casual design doesn't mesh with her character.

Servbot24 · May 22, 2020

UnluckyKate said:
Opens with a shakespear line. Ok, you go for subversion between design and persona okay.
next line is " YEAH I'M SMARTER THAN I LOOK "

I never played the game, but reading this actually made me recoil. Holy shit that is bad, lol.

straylize · May 22, 2020

Manu said:
Velvet from Tales of Berseria

I could excuse this design if she was some sort of sexual, seductress demon that preys on men, but she's as sexless as they come.

She's well written too for a JRPG, so it's a shame. I actually really like her as a character.

The fact that she throws on the first thing she finds and spends the rest of the game seriously not giving a single fuck is actually pretty fitting for her characterization. She's so hyper-focused for most of the game on her goals that even when people ask if she's cold or if she wants her clothes mended, she shrugs it off.

Sure, the design is pretty dumb and impractical, but it actually works just fine with how she's written, I think.

Manu · May 22, 2020

straylize said:
The fact that she throws on the first thing she finds and spends the rest of the game seriously not giving a single fuck is actually pretty fitting for her characterization. She's so hyper-focused for most of the game on her goals that even when people ask if she's cold or if she wants her clothes mended, she shrugs it off.

Sure, the design is pretty dumb and impractical, but it actually works just fine with how she's written, I think.

Yeah but "the first thing she finds" looks like it takes 45 minutes to put on, while they're literally trying to escape from jail.

aett · May 22, 2020

Manu said:
Yeah but "the first thing she finds" looks like it takes 45 minutes to put on, while they're literally trying to escape from jail.

Seriously. People joke about video game characters not being able to fight in their outrageous outfits, but this one takes the cake. She wouldn't be able to do anything without something ripping, tearing, falling off, or getting caught in that loose belt or chain.

Back to Ashe: that's a great example, too. You really get the sense of S-E's marketing division (or some higher-up at the company) seeing Matsuno's writing and characterizations and panicking, or at least immediately thinking "this isn't going to sell to the wider market". The same kind of thinking that lead to Vaan getting added and/or promoted to the main character role.

Hentailover · May 22, 2020

straylize said:
The fact that she throws on the first thing she finds and spends the rest of the game seriously not giving a single fuck is actually pretty fitting for her characterization. She's so hyper-focused for most of the game on her goals that even when people ask if she's cold or if she wants her clothes mended, she shrugs it off.

Sure, the design is pretty dumb and impractical, but it actually works just fine with how she's written, I think.

See her charecterization justifies her design in THEORY
in practice, the sheer amount of time it would take to secure all those belts and tie all those things and maintain it, and such... Just doesn't add up, this is not "I dn't care" kinda get up. This is "I am tring very hard and it takes a lot of effort to keep this up" attire. If they wanted her to wear random rags, they should've drawn her some rags, not this edgy fashion statement from fantasy hot topic.

I like berseria and tales as a whole btw. But velvet kinda looks dumb.

straylize · May 22, 2020

Hentailover said:
See her charecterization justifies her design in THEORY
in practice, the sheer amount of time it would take to secure all those belts and tie all those things and maintain it, and such... Just doesn't add up, this is not "I dn't care" kinda get up. This is "I am tring very hard and it takes a lot of effort to keep this up" attire. If they wanted her to wear random rags, they should've drawn her some rags, not this edgy fashion statement from fantasy hot topic.

I like berseria and tales as a whole btw. But velvet kinda looks dumb.

I mean, to all above this is why I say it's DUMB AND IMPRACTICAL. the design itself is bonkers and pretty impossible, but in theory, the idea fits her perfectly fine. It's not out of character of her. This is just stupid JRPG character design principle, practicality comes second to aesthetic. That's just needing suspension of disbelief, but in terms of "is this in character for her?" I'd still say it is.

ClickyCal' · May 22, 2020

straylize said:
The fact that she throws on the first thing she finds and spends the rest of the game seriously not giving a single fuck is actually pretty fitting for her characterization. She's so hyper-focused for most of the game on her goals that even when people ask if she's cold or if she wants her clothes mended, she shrugs it off.

Sure, the design is pretty dumb and impractical, but it actually works just fine with how she's written, I think.

I have no clue about anything about the game at all, but it seems like it would take way more effort to put all of that on vs just pants or a skirt and a shirt.

Servbot24 · May 22, 2020

straylize said:
The fact that she throws on the first thing she finds and spends the rest of the game seriously not giving a single fuck is actually pretty fitting for her characterization. She's so hyper-focused for most of the game on her goals that even when people ask if she's cold or if she wants her clothes mended, she shrugs it off.

Sure, the design is pretty dumb and impractical, but it actually works just fine with how she's written, I think.

The designers of the game decided what the "first thing she finds" would be.

straylize · May 22, 2020

The designers of the game also decided her personality is not give a single shit about what she's wearing.

I think there's a massive difference in suspending disbelief for practicality, especially in JRPGS where the designs are notoriously impractical with "does this go against characterization," like say...

Ann, in Persona 5 being shoved in a sexy catsuit and verbalizing more than once she's not okay with what she's wearing. That, to me, feels more like design existing to betray characterization than what goes on with Velvet. That's my take on the matter, and I'm saying this with the full knowledge that I think her design is pretty stupid, for all that I enjoy her character.

Hentailover · May 22, 2020

yuoke said:
I have no clue about anything about the game at all, but it seems like it would take way more effort to put all of that on vs just pants or a skirt and a shirt.

Servbot24 said:
The designers of the game decided what the "first thing she finds" would be.

The thing is, Berseria isn't even some nomura fever dream where people like Nooj exist (look it up). Berseria has very toned down grounded designs for just about everybody in the world, including your party members. Only other character who ever remotely matches Velvet in outlandishness is Magilou:

And she's a travelling performer, intentionally dressing in eye catching manner.

Everybody else is just kinda wearing medievil style clothes.

Siggy-P · May 22, 2020

I feel like these threads need a "no anime" mention in the title cus that's all they turn into every time.

roflwaffles · May 22, 2020

First thing that came to mind

Also I never realized her dressrobe thing is made of belts.

Hentailover · May 22, 2020

straylize said:
I think there's a massive difference in suspending disbelief for practicality, especially in JRPGS where the designs are notoriously impractical with "does this go against characterization," like say...

While I understand where you are coming from with this, berseria doesn't have practicality issue with like any other design in all fo that universe... except velvet. She looks like she was dropped into that world from a portal to Nomura's erotic scrapbook.

HotHamBoy · May 22, 2020

roflwaffles said:
Also I never realized her dressrobe thing is made of belts.

Wait wut

Villein · May 22, 2020

most JRPG designs look like they were made in a vacuum away from the writing team

NESpowerhouse · May 22, 2020

roflwaffles said:
First thing that came to mind

Also I never realized her dressrobe thing is made of belts.

This is peak Nomura

Sixfortyfive · May 22, 2020

There's a boss in Pokemon Battle Revolution whose battle theme and losing quote doesn't match at all with his appearance or arena, to the point where this is the one thing that has stuck with me over the years from a mostly unremarkable game.

Canucked · May 22, 2020

roflwaffles said:
First thing that came to mind

Also I never realized her dressrobe thing is made of belts.

Don't forget she wears with on a tropical island where everyone else is in shorts. Her BO must be off the charts.

GreenMamba · May 22, 2020

NESpowerhouse said:
This is peak Nomura

It actually is, because he designed her dress that way as a "challenge" to the animators.

They got around this by... basically never showing her dress moving in higher res scenes. So he kneecapped the animation for no real reason other than he was kinda high on his own farts at the time.

---

That said, I don't think she necessarily fits this topic, as her character design doesn't really conflict with her characterization at all. What it does conflict with is the world design of Spira and her home island--she hails from a small tropical village on a tiny island and no one else in the entire world dresses in any way close to her wardrobe.

Yossarian · May 22, 2020

Raigor said:
A2 and 2B the thread?

I think their design reflects important aspects of their characters.

In a nutshell:

2B wears a blindfold to reflect her inability to see the bigger picture and blindly follow orders. Whenever she removes it is a 'moment'.

While not practical (and certainly for titillation... or, more accurately, ass-elation), the S&M Victorian maid's outfit or whatever the fuck it is also ties into the idea that she is bound and constrained by Yorha.

A2, on the other hand, is free from such constraints and her torn clothing and freely growing hair reflect this.

Also: ASS.

waugh · May 22, 2020

Why do JRPG character designers love belts so much? Why? Even in my favourite JRPG series Trails its full of nonsensical belts and shit.

Socivol · May 22, 2020

Noctis was a very different character than they protested him as in Final Fantasy XV. I thought he would be more like Cloud but he was just a big dork and not a bad ass at all.

NazoNazoXLR · May 22, 2020

waugh said:
Why do JRPG character designers love belts so much? Why? Even in my favourite JRPG series Trails its full of nonsensical belts and shit.

Part of me wonders if there's an unspoken tradition for concept artists and character designers to present their work to the people who do the sprite work/modeling of JRPGs with overly complex detail heavy nonsense and then go "Ha! Try and make sense of this!" that dates back to Amano and the original Final Fantasies

Servbot24 · May 22, 2020

Hentailover said:
The thing is, Berseria isn't even some nomura fever dream where people like Nooj exist (look it up). Berseria has very toned down grounded designs for just about everybody in the world, including your party members. Only other character who ever remotely matches Velvet in outlandishness is Magilou:

And she's a travelling performer, intentionally dressing in eye catching manner.

Everybody else is just kinda wearing medievil style clothes.

Velvet wouldn't be so bad if she were a side character. But having to look at that pile of nonsense for 50+ hours? No thanks.

And I'm a guy who doesn't mind Quiet that much. :P

Hentailover · May 22, 2020

Servbot24 said:
Velvet wouldn't be so bad if she were a side character. But having to look at that pile of nonsense for 50+ hours? No thanks.

And I'm a guy who doesn't mind Quiet that much. :P

I have anime avatars. If I am saying "it's too much", somebody gotta be dropping the ball.

Manu · May 22, 2020

Servbot24 said:
Velvet wouldn't be so bad if she were a side character. But having to look at that pile of nonsense for 50+ hours? No thanks.

And I'm a guy who doesn't mind Quiet that much. :P

You can change her clothes thankfully.

I didn't because I don't like when my character's look is non-canon/isn't reflected in cutscenes, but the option is there.

Examples of when character design doesn't mesh with characterization?

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