Because this is not the first time we've heard similar stories about ND and pretty much several big AAA studios in the industry, that's why it's not hard to believe.
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Ex-Naughty Dog animator: "ND's games success is due in large part to Sony's deep pocket funding delays rather than skill alone"
- Thread starter Lant_War
- Start date
Which is perfectly fine. I'd never want to work in a toxic environment like that anyway. Putting employment ahead of employee health is some absolute garbage.
I've done crunch it sucks but do l criticise my ex-employee in public hell no. I'm not going to burn bridges.
Yep totally, so sad to hear story like that from a such great studio
User Warned: Please refrain from using tweets to discredit and downplay the subject of the thread
Hmmm, Strange
Because here's what he said about why he left ND and that's because of a new clause in Sony's contracts and he actually admitted that ND tried their best to help him.
Another positive tweetabout ND
So which is it?
Sure until they read his Twitter feed criticising his ex-employee.
Did either of you read his entire comment chain? He repeatedly questions the skill level of these employees. Just because he said "they're awesome" doesn't negate the fact he threw in a caveat and said "but.....", which you seem to be wilfully ignoring.
He's saying it wouldn't have needed as much time if they hired experienced staff, because a lot of hires were junior and/or outside of game industry which meant some needed a longer start up time to be trained. A team with more experienced senior staff would operate more efficiently.
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Naughty Dog and heavy crunching isn't exactly a new and fresh topic. It's like ex-CDPR developer talking about crunch, would you act surprised then too?
Well my alias isn't my name you can look up on linkedin so not really.
It really is especially with Jason's article.
Stop trying to defend ND.
So we're still digging through tweet history to demonize the guy rather than the studio responsible for the shitty management that leads to their employees ending up in hospitals? This is utterly pathetic.
That's a bingo. But I am happy to see industry veterans like him speaking out against these practices. They need to end, and actions like these are the first steps.
Yes.
(but seriously, I'm not saying Naughty Dog games aren't great but the practices they use to make them great seem to be pretty horrible on the employees so supporting those practices could be morally wrong. This doesn't seem to be a Sony issue but rather a Naughty Dog issue.)
Again, they threatened to not pay him. They can go to hell.
This isn't just one employee. Just one which is actual speaking outside of the cloak of anonymity.
There's plenty of senior staff that have left and plenty who have spoken anonymously about this culture. This is mostly a proven fact since literally dozens of people who work there are saying the same thing. I would believe him over some random ND fan on some random website.
I read the entire thread repeatedly. Honestly not sure where you are getting this from, but I can assure you it does not exist. He is giving a specific context for his remarks and as a matter of fact, yes, there is a skill gap between senior and junior staff. And he points out how it is an issue in this particular instance. It is not framed as "wow they suck, if they simply hired better junior staff the game would have come out quicker". You can only get this viewpoint if you ignore context or framing. Cooper is the last person to shit on junior animators willing to learn the craft, he spends a lot of his free time on the subject and hoping to get others into animation
Man I hope you're on their payroll, otherwise this is some pathetic shit
Yeah let's make fun of this guy for calling out a company you like for its malpractices
The ND (Actually the Sony) defense force is in full force in the forum. ND should be under scrutiny just like R* and CRPR last year for their practices.
You seem to be conflating talent with skill here. You can be super talented at animating, but the lack of experience in a specific area of animation impacts your skill as an animator. Look at it this way, skill is a combination of talent, efficiency, and output. A super talented CGI film animator has a different skill set then a 2D traditional animator that has a different skill set to a game animator. The best 2D animator in the world isn't the most going to be the most skilled game animator right out the gate if they were to switch jobs. They have a skill set and knowledge that will compliment their eventual competency in that field, but takes months to get to that point. And while they get to that point, they aren't the best. And if they get burned out once they get skilled in that area and leave, then the studio has to seek out and find a new animator and the cycle starts again
The only thing more pathetic than this post is the fact that you do it for free.
Jonathan Cooper?
He is one of the most talented Animators in the games industry.
Hell if you have any interest in getting into game animation Jonathans book is like a bible.
You guys really need to read his whole thread before posting....I know defending a studio that makes games you like is the norm....but they arent perfect so just read the thread and dont defend bad industry practices.
Did you read the thread? I already clarified this for you.
It's not an insult to call people juniors and he's not saying it's their fault, they were put into that position by poor management.
I like cinematic games and all, but I wouldn't mind if the industry as a whole took the Nintendo approach. The pressure to keep ahead of the tech curve is making stories like this way too common.
I'm not defending ND (actually I believe the crunch stories and wish they do something about it) but the old tweets contradicts the new ones which made me wonder about it that's all.
I mean...delays don't necessarily makes visuals better for example.
I think much of what makes Naughty Dog's games successful comes down to talent. So things like the visuals, story, voice acting and such.
But it terms of having the actual time to make all that happen? Yeah, that's Sony funding delays.
I think much of what makes Naughty Dog's games successful comes down to talent. So things like the visuals, story, voice acting and such.
But it terms of having the actual time to make all that happen? Yeah, that's Sony funding delays.
People trying to dismiss his thread by investigating his entire twitter history just to see how they can dismiss what he just said. Unbelievable.
We could all be fighting for a better working environment for Naughty Dog while they still exist...but no, let's bring down the ones that are risking themselves by exposing ND.
Because as long as you guys get your games that's what matters right? Incredible really...
We could all be fighting for a better working environment for Naughty Dog while they still exist...but no, let's bring down the ones that are risking themselves by exposing ND.
Because as long as you guys get your games that's what matters right? Incredible really...
Valve? Valve has many good ones due to the no crunch and pretty good benefits (such as parental leave).
the world's most talented junior employee is still a junior employee... that's not a dig on the quality of their work! And a bad ratio of senior to junior team members will radically affect the productivity of the senior level people.
Mentioning the fact that new junior level staff coming to games from film need assistance before they are working at full speed is not a comment on their talent.
Scrap current ND and rebuild from the ground up. See if we get something like a Crash or CTR equivalent from them again rather than hum drum adventures that make you question the fun you're having and at what expense it has on its world etc etc. Uncharted 4 making Drake so bored of the romp to parallel the againg devs bored of making Uncharteds/games knifes me a little bit more every time I think about it.
(I still enjoyed TLOU and UC4, but boy repeat playthroughs just aren't as thrilling as UC1-3)
(I still enjoyed TLOU and UC4, but boy repeat playthroughs just aren't as thrilling as UC1-3)
They don't.
And looking at every word he uttered in his life to explain the current situation is stupid, that's all.
Lmao at some of the takes people got here. They really love defending their favorite companies.
