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Ex-Guerilla Games developer on upset fans over HZD coming to PC: "What the hell is wrong with you people"?

Bradford

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
Espi said:
I only said $1000 because to play the newest titles at similar specs to PS5/Series X you need more than a budget PC. If The Last of Us 2 ever comes to PC you're gonna need more than a 970 and an 4790k
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RDR2's PS4 Pro settings are lower than the lowest settings available on PC according to digital foundry, which has a spec floor you can build for around $700. You don't need to spend over a grand to get console parity at all. Certainly more than a console, but you make it back in performance and versatility.
 
Alexandros

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,813
Bear Patrol said:
I picked this message because it's one of many, many posts you've made in this thread that make no sense so here we are.

You started with a profound misunderstanding of how development works with your "it's hard to focus on multiple platforms" nonsense and added to your weird ramblings with your "investment value of a console" bit but you've made no actual concrete arguments that other people haven't shot down already.

As someone who worked on a variety of games all the way from little indie pixel side scrollers to major 3D games on Steam the "size, complexity and scope" argument falls flat.

If you're making games as content-filled or with such high graphical fidelity as RDR2 or HZD, you're already making a significant financial investment. RDR2 took years to make and a team numbering over 3000. The team isn't that large because they needed 2000 people to figure out how to harness the amazing power of the PS4 but because they needed hundreds of artists to create dozens of bespoke animations (with some more complex individual animations taking 2-4 weeks each), hundreds of QA people to run through all the different scenarios for how the game could be broken and dozens of small teams working on separate areas of the map before integrating it together. The team tasked with figuring out how the PS4 worked and how to get the most out of it was likely comparatively small.

At that scale, you as a dev really are not going to be hurting anything by having another team dedicated to porting your game to another platform. The work of the team putting the game on PC is going to have little to no impact on your work in getting it to PS4. It definitely doesn't hurt the work of the team getting the game to the PS4 simply because you've got your own workflow, your own tools and your own QA. A day-and-date release mandates that for large games. Work on platform version of a game almost never hurts or interferes with the creation of another platform version, in my experience.

As a dev, you definitely welcome the additional platforms because that gets you more of your money back or just makes you more. I guarantee you that almost no-one making these games gives two shits about your "investment" in a console so much as they do making sure they get as many people to buy their game on as many consoles as possible so they can at least have a nice bonus check to make up for the dozens of hours of supposed "non-mandatory overtime" they've been asked to work to get the damn game out the doors in time.
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Thank you for this post.
 
Dazraell

Dazraell

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Poland
Aranjah said:
For me, personally, I'm primarily an Xbox/PC/Switch gamer, but when Horizon came out, it just looked so good that I begrudgingly broke down and got a Pro so I could play it and a few of the other PS4 exclusives I'd missed out on that looked really cool.
Watching these exclusives all, one by one, come to PC or Xbox later has kinda made me feel like, "Well, why did I buy a PS4, then?" (I haven't even started several of the exclusives I've picked up, because I have a backlog problem, but that's on me.)
A bit frustrating, but I'm not melting. I'm just not going to bother with a PS5 because what's the point if all its exclusives come to PC (or even Xbox!) by the time I get around to playing them?
The people posting videos of themselves smashing their hardware, or whatever, are off the deep end, though.
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I get what you're saying, because I'm in a similar position. Whenever I'm picking consoles, I do this only because of exclusives and games I can play on a certain platform. I'm currently playing on PC, PS4 and Switch (and 3DS, but this platform won't receive new games, so I can focus on my backlog). For this reason I'm actually happy Microsoft is putting their games on PC, because I can finally play some of their more recent games (like Gears, Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition) without any worries whatsover.

That said, I still see Horizon as a smart move.

From what I understand, Sony is planning to pull a quick transistion from PS4 to PS5 and focus their attention mostly on a new platform. With backward compatibility, they can totally do that, because all of those new exclusives on PS4 will be also playable on a new hardware by default. This is an awesome idea. Base PS4 owners will have all of features of Pro and even more, Pro users will have features like quicker loading times and everyone can simultaneously juggle between new PS5 releases and their PS4 backlog. It's a win, win scenario for everyone who is interested in buying PS5. They don't need to rush newer games in order to play on a new hardware and they can benefit from that as well.

Using PC for selected games released few years prior could potentially help them market some of their IPs and sell even more PS5 in the process. I'm not sure if they're going to pull this with all of their recent games. They may handpick some titles, but not the most recent ones. There will be a lot of people who will love Zero Dawn so much they may start to think: "Damn, Horizon 2 is going to be awesome. Maybe I should buy PS5". Horizon is also a good fit for PC, because it's very similar to open world RPGs like The Witcher 3, which sold well on PC and already estabilished quite huge userbase.
 
Kewlmyc

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,722
Fanboys suck. People did the same for Xbox way back in the day before it became the norm, Playstation fanboys will do the same, and Nintendo fanboys would probably be worse if Mario games ever came to PC officially.
 
Altair

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
He's absolutely right. These people and their console war BS are utterly embarrassing.
 
Smashed_Hulk

Smashed_Hulk

Member
Jun 16, 2018
401
I will never understand why gamers affiliate themselves so deeply with a corporation to the point where they dont want others to enjoy what they enjoyed, but on another platform. Probably the same people who didn't want cross-console multiplayer.. like come one. The more, the merrier.
 
Smashed_Hulk

Smashed_Hulk

Member
Jun 16, 2018
401
Kewlmyc said:
Fanboys suck. People did the same for Xbox way back in the day before it became the norm, Playstation fanboys will do the same, and Nintendo fanboys would probably be worse if Mario games ever came to PC officially.
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Dude I was just thinking how awesome it would be if Nintendo pulled something like this and released some older games on PC for everyone to enjoy. Obviously not new releases, but if they dropped MK8 or BotW next year on PC. it would be sweet, never gonna happen, but the world would rejoice..... except for the fanboys who would cry about how it would hurt sales or some crap. ugh.
 
AgonyRon

AgonyRon

Member
Nov 27, 2017
688
If you are a fanboy and for some years have been screaming that there is no reason to buy an Xbox, because of no real exclusives... then you have to be angry when Sony does the same thing.

So now they think people could say 'there's absolutely no reason to buy a PlayStation when u have a PC'.

Even though I've been a fanboy (SEGA) earlier in life, it's still kinda sad that people think they own a brand or something. More options for everybody, everybody happy you would say.
 

Deleted member 17402

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,125
Fitts

Fitts

You know what that means
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,214
NENUZoO.gif
 
liquidmetal14

liquidmetal14

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,094
Florida
This forum falls victim to the stupidity too. That's why I don't partake in the system warriors fanboy crap.

I'm happy to support all devs no matter what they are as long as I have the means to play.
 
MaLDo

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,404
Dazraell said:
I'm not sure why people are melting over Horizon coming to PC.

It's a win win for gamers and Sony. Franchise will have more exposure. With a new platform you have a brand new audience who can potentially be interested in buying PS5, because they may want to immediately play a sequel, which most likely is going to be a launch title.
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Question number 1: will Horizon 2 have unlocked framerate and resolution?

Question number 2: can you be sure Horizon 2 will not launch on PC a year after console launch?

only a yes-yes situation can put some sense about buying a PS5 for that game. I can't see this move as a marketing for PS5 if everyone will see playing Horizon in PC is way better than playing in PS4.
 

Deleted member 6233

Oct 25, 2017
232
fourfourfun said:
Seriously though, this is what happens when you absolutely centre everything on brand identity and consumerism.
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Exactly. Exactly. Some folks have built their entire identities and existences around Sony so much that this is all they have. To the degree where they're way too far gone now. I've read some pretty wild stories of some folks who have completely pushed away their families, friends and partners because of this! With these folks it really has become "I don't want to talk to or see you, just leave me alone with my PS4. This is all that matters in life to me.". These same extreme folks really are willing to give their lives for Sony at this point, seemingly doing everything in their power to ensure they continue succeeding at any cost. I read some wild accounts back with the PS3 when Sony really was in ultra deep water, I don't know if they're true or not...some of these guys called and actually showed up to Sony US and Japan literally crying saying they had Sony's back and wouldn't let them fall, going so far as to offer Sony blank checks they could fill out! If thats true damn is really all I can say.

This kind of behavior isn't normal or healthy. It needs to stop. The people who care about these folks need to do an intervention and say enough is enough. Time to get help.

I really don't get it. You know, it's no secret I'm a huge supporter of Nintendo but I'd never go this far, destroying property over success or failure of a company. There's being a fan of a company and then there's this extreme. Lately some of these ultra fans are saying they know this is sad and pathetic but Sony is still everything to them and they're not about to stop this now. These guys need to read the article of a guy who was super fanatical with Batman like this, thinking he used to own it. The article talks about how he realized how far gone he was and how he made changes for the better. These fanatics could take some notes from it.
 
Weltall Zero

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
HeroR said:
I actually do have a problem with this since almost all the games ported from the Wii U to the Switch are games I have and the enhancements don't justify paying another $60 for it. But people do since no one bought a Wii U.
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Having an issue with the price of a port has absolutely nothing to do with having an issue with there being a port, which is what this is about. In fact, the people that are angry at the latter would be even more furious if the ports were cheaper.
 
Dazraell

Dazraell

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Poland
MaLDo said:
Question number 1: will Horizon 2 have unlocked framerate and resolution?

Question number 2: can you be sure Horizon 2 will not launch on PC a year after console launch?

only a yes-yes situation can put some sense about buying a PS5 for that game. I can't see this move as a marketing for PS5 if everyone will see playing Horizon in PC is way better than playing in PS4.
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Seriously, it's just wrong. Horizon was released two years ago. Most of people who were interested in buying it, already have it on their libraries. Giving opportunity to play it for a new userbase isn't really impacting experience of ones who played on PS4. With your logic, you should wait for PS5 because Horizon may be even better experience on that platform.

I think they'll handpick titles they want on PC and it's nothing wrong with it. Everyone benefit with this.
 

Deleted member 21875

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
799
Wierd. Surely the more people that play a game the better. More people get to play a great game, more money for the dev team and publisher. Everyone wins surely.
 
Firima

Firima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,475
I mean, are good exclusives really that good if you strip away the neener neener factor from them? Vidya review outlets don't score based on whether others can enjoy a game, but I feel like maybe a site that did would do well, judging by all the manbaby toesucks crying about someone else being able to touch their precious toy.
 
JamRock7

JamRock7

Banned
Aug 19, 2019
2,125
FL
What was the purpose of this thread? Because there's barely been any outrage. We all saw this coming from a mile away.
 
LookAtMeGo

LookAtMeGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,136
a parallel universe
ApeEscaper

ApeEscaper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,720
Bangladeshi
Dylan

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
MaLDo said:
Question number 1: will Horizon 2 have unlocked framerate and resolution?

Question number 2: can you be sure Horizon 2 will not launch on PC a year after console launch?

only a yes-yes situation can put some sense about buying a PS5 for that game. I can't see this move as a marketing for PS5 if everyone will see playing Horizon in PC is way better than playing in PS4.
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Lots of people can't afford a gaming PC or they just don't like gaming on PC. It's only a fraction of the customer base that have the knowledge and/or means to choose one platform or the other based on performance. Playstation is a household name, gaming PC's aren't. I don't think Sony is going to sell less PS5's because HDZ looks great on PC.
 

Deleted member 6233

Oct 25, 2017
232
CarlSagan94 said:
Jesus reading some of the tweets in that thread is borderline scary. Some people are just truly, profoundly stupid, really reminds me of cult behavior.
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This was another good post. It's sadly what the "Playstation Nation" has morphed itself into, a cult. I'm definitely not suggesting this was the intent of Sony higher ups since even they've said this fanaticism is way out of control, far beyond what they ever thought it'd become. The extreme fans wanted this so that's what's developed over the last 20 plus years unfortunately. Again, they centered far too much of their identities and existences around it and wanted to surround themselves with only folks that ended up in their spot. It's become a frankly downright unsettling and creepy fan cult. I knew it was really far out of hand a few years ago at E3 during one of those Yoshida panels, the audience was chanting Yoshida much like a cult. it was scary to hear that. it's like....they consider Yoshida and company their...leader or God I guess you could say. These extreme fans definitely have issues that need to be resolved with a professional, I really truly hope they wake up and get it now, so they're not sitting there at 60, 65 suddenly waking up and going "The hell did I do with my life!?"
 
TaySan

TaySan

SayTan
Member
Dec 10, 2018
31,453
Tulsa, Oklahoma
If I was a fanboy I would want Sony to win with all my power. Seeing PlayStation games on the top of the charts and in the hearts of minds of everyone..... But I guess I would be the minority in that thinking.
 
F34R

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,997
I bought the expensive version of the game on release day, because I liked the statue lol, and I'm definitely getting this on PC as well.
 

Mad_Rhetoric

Banned
May 7, 2019
3,466
Good, he's right. What kind of corporate fanboy would want to gatekeep others from enjoying games? Get used to this, its only the beginning whether you like it or not.
 
Carlius

Carlius

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Dylan said:
Lots of people can't afford a gaming PC or they just don't like gaming on PC. It's only a fraction of the customer base that have the knowledge and/or means to choose one platform or the other based on performance. Playstation is a household name, gaming PC's aren't. I don't think Sony is going to sell less PS5's because HDZ looks great on PC.
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While i completely and utterly disagree with ur former statement on 0c and i do agree with the latter a lot.
 
Taurus

Taurus

Banned
Jun 15, 2018
733
Bear Patrol said:
I picked this message because it's one of many, many posts you've made in this thread that make no sense so here we are.

You started with a profound misunderstanding of how development works with your "it's hard to focus on multiple platforms" nonsense and added to your weird ramblings with your "investment value of a console" bit but you've made no actual concrete arguments that other people haven't shot down already.

As someone who worked on a variety of games all the way from little indie pixel side scrollers to major 3D games on Steam the "size, complexity and scope" argument falls flat.

If you're making games as content-filled or with such high graphical fidelity as RDR2 or HZD, you're already making a significant financial investment. RDR2 took years to make and a team numbering over 3000. The team isn't that large because they needed 2000 people to figure out how to harness the amazing power of the PS4 but because they needed hundreds of artists to create dozens of bespoke animations (with some more complex individual animations taking 2-4 weeks each), hundreds of QA people to run through all the different scenarios for how the game could be broken and dozens of small teams working on separate areas of the map before integrating it together. The team tasked with figuring out how the PS4 worked and how to get the most out of it was likely comparatively small.

At that scale, you as a dev really are not going to be hurting anything by having another team dedicated to porting your game to another platform. The work of the team putting the game on PC is going to have little to no impact on your work in getting it to PS4. It definitely doesn't hurt the work of the team getting the game to the PS4 simply because you've got your own workflow, your own tools and your own QA. A day-and-date release mandates that for large games. Work on platform version of a game almost never hurts or interferes with the creation of another platform version, in my experience.

As a dev, you definitely welcome the additional platforms because that gets you more of your money back or just makes you more. I guarantee you that almost no-one making these games gives two shits about your "investment" in a console so much as they do making sure they get as many people to buy their game on as many consoles as possible so they can at least have a nice bonus check to make up for the dozens of hours of supposed "non-mandatory overtime" they've been asked to work to get the damn game out the doors in time.
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Or to sum this up:

Sit down and shut the fuck up. :D

(Too bad I can not hit "like" for your post)
 

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
I really don't understand this fanatical need some Sony fanboys have to never want Playstation exclusives onto PC. We are talking about games being released years after on PC. It just strikes me as braindead console warring.
 
JCG

JCG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,537
Platform wars can make people act in very childish and foolish ways.

Fans of formerly exclusive games already got years of comparative privilege by getting to experience such titles in advance.

They should be glad that someone else will be finally introduced to what they had been missing.
 
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