For Happy sure, people would probably be indifferent, but I don't agree at all regarding Fury's inclusion. Looking at reactions for the trailers, people were clearly very interested in Fury's presence.
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EW: Kevin Feige and Tom Holland talk Spider-Man
- Thread starter Halbrand
- Start date
For Happy sure, people would probably be indifferent, but I don't agree at all regarding Fury's inclusion. Looking at reactions for the trailers, people were clearly very interested in Fury's presence.
There's an interview around the time Homecoming was coming out where Feige called Spider-Man the greatest superhero of all time. This has got to sting for him. People asking why they put so much emphasis on the character when his future wasn't certain—it's because they love Spidey
Man, they gotta fix this
Man, they gotta fix this
The way they tied them into the larger MCU was so good. Especially Mysterio, his speech was hilarious
They would be better if they were Spider-man villains imo. Vulture was "ok" because it seemed more about how the rich don't care about the poor (even though they could do that without Iron Man), but Mysterio being just another "random guy mad at Tony Stark" made him a lesser character. These characters should have bigger connections to Spider-man.
I hated it. lol It felt like the writers dumped all the exposition there. Why woulld he narrate his whole life and plans like that? Felt very unnatural.
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Mysterio was great not just because of being caused in part by Tony but filling in the void left by the absent and dead Avengers as a new hero for the public. And of course filling Tony's role for Peter.
Here it is:
Starts at 2:36
"Spider-Man is Marvel's biggest character. He is the jewel in the crown. Such an amazing icon. He is a very different type of hero, quite simply, the greatest superhero of all time."
Kevin himself, folks.
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I had every confidence Feige was slowly but surely giving us the best live action Spider-Man
It hurts bro
This seems like a weird take. Aren't most of Peter's rogues usually just common criminals ,disgruntled ex-employees of Oscorp or freak accidents of science? Typically their only connection is that Spider-man bugs them while they're doing crime .
And yet he couldn't put out a movie that made more money than Black Panther. Or Captain Marvel.
I'm not saying I disagree (Spider-Man is my personal favorite superhero of all time) but I don't think younger generations feel the same and without him in the MCU, less and less people will grow up thinking that.
In comics and cartoons we usually see them with these origins but growing to have bigger personal connections to Spider-man, the MCU movies don't get to this stage. My favorite part in Homecoming was when Vulture had Peter in his car, but that was almost at the end. Mysterio was for the whole movie doing stuff just because of Tony Stark and Peter was just caught in the crossfire.
It also doesn't help when all bad guys have Iron Man as their origin, they basically did the same thing in the 3 Iron Man movies, Ultron, Civil War and the two Spider-man movies. Evil being born from small things sometimes is more interesting, like how classic Mysterio was just mad at his failed career as a special effects artist and actor. Not everything has to be "connected", it makes the movie less relatable and the world ends up feeling smaller because of that.
Those situations aren't directly comparable. Black Panther and to a lesser extent Captain Marvel were cultural milestones in a already successful movie universe. Spider-Man meanwhile had to wash the stink off a failed reboot and a third recasting. The fact that the outcry has been immediate should tell you everybody still loves Spider-Man. I honestly don't think any other hero would get this kind of reaction
It's also not like Spider-Man is going anywhere either. Someone will keep making movies, there's a preschool cartoon coming, endless merchandise...I don't see him ever becoming irrelevant
It's such a kick in the balls after the end of FFH, I marked out so much, was so excited for the future of Spider-Man!
Now I'm like ugh.
Honestly Sony need to pull off some multiverse thing with Tobey to get me excited for a non-MCU Spider-Man movie from them. Get dat Spider-Man 2002 theme playing in the trailer. It's the only thing that would save any kind of meeeh feeling from me.
If it's just gonna be current Spidey with their stupid Venom and they think that'll get people excited, nar.
Now I'm like ugh.
Honestly Sony need to pull off some multiverse thing with Tobey to get me excited for a non-MCU Spider-Man movie from them. Get dat Spider-Man 2002 theme playing in the trailer. It's the only thing that would save any kind of meeeh feeling from me.
If it's just gonna be current Spidey with their stupid Venom and they think that'll get people excited, nar.
They won't even feel it
The MCU was created on the back of turning C tier heroes into icons due to not having access to the heavy hitters
So? Spidey makes billions in merch every year. I doubt any other superhero (aside from maybe Batman) even comes close.
My point is that we've hit a point where the MCU is what dictates popularity of the character, not the other way around.
In retrospect I guess this shouldn't come as a surprise. Marvel was willing to tank the X-Men and Fantastic Four just to spite Fox, ruining the commercial prospects of their own comics, videogames, and merchandise in the process.
Marvel was willing to completely ignore and disregard the mega-hype surrounding Incredible Hulk in the wake of Avengers 1, just because they refused to let Universal be the ones to distribute a potential Hulk movie. So now all we get is Hulk as second banana in Thor and some C-grade Bruce Banner sidestories in the Avengers films.
They got everything they wanted out of Spider-Man, so it guess it makes sense that they are willing to let him fall by the wayside now.
Marvel was willing to completely ignore and disregard the mega-hype surrounding Incredible Hulk in the wake of Avengers 1, just because they refused to let Universal be the ones to distribute a potential Hulk movie. So now all we get is Hulk as second banana in Thor and some C-grade Bruce Banner sidestories in the Avengers films.
They got everything they wanted out of Spider-Man, so it guess it makes sense that they are willing to let him fall by the wayside now.
Ah, yes. I am sure all of the heroes of earth, Asgard, etc. who had recently fought beside the kid in what was basically a battle for the fate of the entire universe would just take a random news report to be true and write the him off as a murderous coward.
Makes perfect sense.
Nick Fury: I just gave that kid the keys to Tony's whole cache of tech but eh, fuck it.
Spider-Man, and probably Wolverine, are the exceptions. There's a reason people want those characters in the MCU so badly
You really can't replace them that easily. They are as big as they are for a reason. Spider-Man will never not be extremely popular my guy
Except that Mysterio in FFH is clearly embittered against Peter as well. It might be for reasons connected to Stark, but he certainly has a more personal vendetta against Parker than he ever did when he first appeared in the comics, where he was arguably just another bank robber with a gimmick.
I don't think he won't always be popular I'm saying that the longer he spends away from the MCU, the closer other characters come to becoming as popular, if not moreso.
Heck you could legitimately make the argument that Iron Man is already there.
I don't think there's any actual quotes to support that common thesis, but it's really the only plausible explanation for why they stopped doing Hulk movies when the character (for a time at least) resonated so strongly with people. And it fits in with how petty Marvel has been about other IPs that they don't completely own all the movie rights for. If they are going to turn their back on Spider-Man, then Hulk sure as hell isn't going to get any attention from them.
This, all of it.
The MCU catapulted Iron Man to Batman/Spider-Man tier.
You ... you fucking get it. :o
Venom is not something you can just plop down and be like "Ok, fight now!", it can be an amazing villain but it takes time and patience to build up to ... but would be such an amazing pay off!
Also, to anyone who thinks it's simple or easy to get a successful live action Cape flick out ... if it's so easy or simple why do they fail at it time and time and TIME again?
I mean, if you legit think Iron Man is bigger than Spider-Man idk that we're gonna see eye to eye. So much of Iron Man's popularity is tied into RDJ, while the character of Spider-Man himself will always be the main draw.
Like, I just don't think Marvel has anyone that will overtake Spider-Man as their most well known character. Especially since he will always be around in some fashion. Whether he's in the MCU or not. Idk if I'm overestimating Spider-Man or your underestimating him, only time will tell.
I think a large part of that is a perception that comes from most of the internet being 20-30+ somethings who grew up with Spider-Man from the cartoons and Raimi films and such. I think if you ask kids and teens (Disney's main audience) who their favorite superhero is, you'll get very different answers.
I do agree that Iron Man's popularity comes primarily from RDJ but like, that's who the character is now, so there is no real difference.
He's acting like he's totally won here, but I'll bet he wasn't really expecting major parts of Hulk/Banner's arc to just be skimmed over in Endgame's timeskip, or for Banner to be made to look kind of bumbling next to Tony's genius. If Hulk had gotten a proper film they would have dedicated time and genuine effort to his struggles, rather than making them mostly just comedic beats.
Twenty years from now RDJ won't be playing Iron Man. There will be a difference. We might discover people came for the actor and not the character.
Spider-Man has already shown that's not the case for him. People love the character.
Your point about 20-30 somethings might have some merit if Spider-Man didn't have a cartoon aimed at toddlers coming, a successful video game franchise, and more movies coming whether its in the MCU or not. The MCU has made it so that you'll get a lot more varied answers on favorites, but overall I still think saying Spider-Man will remain their biggest hero isn't a bold claim. Especially since as I keep saying he isn't going anywhere
No I mean they literally changed the essence of the character so that he pretty much acts like RDJ's version across all media and will continue to do so in the future.
And yeah, he's getting that stuff now because he's hot off two successful movies but he may continue to do so. Star Wars also got a bunch of stuff aimed at kids but as Disney is slowly learning, kids don't care about Star Wars as much as they thought.
For now. After a few years of no RDJ in the role, he'll fade away again.
Have you seen Spider-Man's merchandise sales?? Kids love Spider-Man
Listen man, we're going in circles. At the end of the day, I believe Spider-Man will remain the most popular. He will keep getting games, shows, and other merchandise. He will keep getting solo movies, either from Disney or Sony. If the Sony movies are good that's good for the character, if they're bad we'll get a new deal in the MCU and that's good for the character. Spider-Man will keep trucking.
What other marvel character can you say that about?
Yeah they do now. My whole point is that they may not continue to do so.
Regardless my original point was that the MCU doesn't need Spider-Man. If they get him back it will be because Sony's movies tanked.
I disagree.
It only takes making big enough impression to plant the seed in a generation's heart and making enough content for it to grow and grow.
I wouldn't be shocked to find that kids today hold Iron Man and BP and CM in their hearts right up there with the greats when they're old fucks like me.
A whole generation of kids already have "Iron Man = Cool" ingrained on their minds
They have Robert Downey Jr = cool engrained in their minds. A few years of Iron Man being a boring dork in video games and cartoons and that will become abundantly clear.
Yeah, and I don't agree. Not with Spider-Man.
The MCU will be fine. But in the long run, so will Spider-Man. Either the new Sony movies are good or they tank like you say and there's a new deal. Not like Kevin wouldn't jump at the chance for him back
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You are correct. Hell, on this very forum we have people who hold the Star Wars prequels in high regard because they grew up with them. Some of you in this thread probably feel that way. That's insane to me, but different generations grow up with different heroes.
When they reboot Iron Man in 10-20 years, people will go apeshit for it.
What is stopping them from having the actor show up in the MCU, not being called Spiderman and not wearing the suite ?
Probably the fact that it'd be burning a bridge with Sony, whose goodwill they will need for any future collaboration.