Good to see people finally opening up to this because this industry is way to close mined when it comes to money in just about every way.
What game dev cost and what people earn for what work.
/pay me if old.
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Everyone should check out #GameDevPaidMe
- Thread starter TheDutchSlayer
- Start date
Good to see people finally opening up to this because this industry is way to close mined when it comes to money in just about every way.
What game dev cost and what people earn for what work.
/pay me if old.
Excellent. Discussing salary openly is great for developers (or any industry worker) and bad for billionaires.
Fwiw I do freelance concept art and I charge $50/hr. That is a fairly low wage. I'm able to support offering low fees because I also have a full time job in tech.
I'll be scouring this hashtag for other concept artists.
Fwiw I do freelance concept art and I charge $50/hr. That is a fairly low wage. I'm able to support offering low fees because I also have a full time job in tech.
I'll be scouring this hashtag for other concept artists.
Some really high sums in there (well looking at it from the outside with a "normal" job in customer support) - or low ... dunno shit about dev wages tbh. I earn like 1500€ a month as context. Maybe 1-2k bonus each year if I add it up. Which is pretty good compared to anything near me (I am working from Home Office) but nowhere some of the numbers I see here.
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Not gaming, but a similar thing for #publishingpaidme has been going round, which has made me feel shit wrt what I have been paid to illustrate and write books.
The general consensus is that illustrators like myself are massively underpaid compared to fiction writers.
I'm quite conflicted on whether I should share my experience.
The general consensus is that illustrators like myself are massively underpaid compared to fiction writers.
I'm quite conflicted on whether I should share my experience.
Never compare USD and EUR wages. They are in no way comparable due to the way of counting, the costs that are still to be made, ...
Not worth comparing to US wages, not sure where you live in Europe but that's an alright salary (not bad, but nothing crazy either).
I think it is also not worth to talk about an alright salary for living in europe, there are big differences.
Cost of living index europe (2018)
I assume they are hired through a third party agency. So the way such agencies win the contract is usually by beating out the competition on price.
Today I learned I make more than mid-level Blizzard employees, lmao. Thank god I never actually pursued a career in gaming.
With costs that are still to be made you mean like tax?
The numbers ... what do they mean? I never saw index numbers in this context.
It is a cost of living index for europe.
It shows how expensive it is to pay for your daily needs, apartment and entertainment.
100% is the average of cost of living of all the states.
So, in a country with 60, you have 40% less expenses for your living to the european average.
120 you have 20% more expenses in your cost of living to the european average.
It doesn't show earnings, and ofcourse electronics, cars are not part of the index, just daily things.
I started on 15k in a AAA developer as QA about 5-6 years ago, it's not just third party hires that pay QA abysmally.
Cheers, now I get it.
Ah okay. Do workers have to do tax stuff themself in some places? Kinda thought the company thats employing you handles that everywhere.
That's more than I've ever made in my life. But I'm extremely low on the wage ladder.
But in general game dev work are highly specialized jobs that take a lot of skill with very heavy workloads. Some AAA games bring in insane revenue. Overall salaries should be a lot higher than what they currently are.
There is a reason people commonly bail from the industry. IT software development gave me way better pay and hours
QA is rough. Especially since everyone thinks you are a replaceable part. Wage suppression and wage theft are both extremely common in the lower rungs of the industry, and it's even more common for people to get promoted based upon who they know and how long they have been there, rather than how good they are at their actual job.
I know so many people who just failed upwards because they are good friends with their boss or their bosses boss, and it's gross.
For comparison (in CAD), my history in the video game industry:
All at one company:
Starting in QA: $10.20 an hour and not full time
First QA promotion: $11 an hour - $21,000 a year
Senior QA promotion: $12 an hour - $23,000 a year
Test Lead/Coordinator promotion - $14 an hour - $27,000 a year
Switched to a competitor:
Test Lead/Coordinator - $42,000 a year
Switched to a video game-related company, but not directly in the industry:
Coordinator - $57,000 a year
Community Manager - $64,000 a year
Product Marketing - $$$
I always tell people to know their value and never stay somewhere for long if the pay is that low.
I know so many people who just failed upwards because they are good friends with their boss or their bosses boss, and it's gross.
For comparison (in CAD), my history in the video game industry:
All at one company:
Starting in QA: $10.20 an hour and not full time
First QA promotion: $11 an hour - $21,000 a year
Senior QA promotion: $12 an hour - $23,000 a year
Test Lead/Coordinator promotion - $14 an hour - $27,000 a year
Switched to a competitor:
Test Lead/Coordinator - $42,000 a year
Switched to a video game-related company, but not directly in the industry:
Coordinator - $57,000 a year
Community Manager - $64,000 a year
Product Marketing - $$$
I always tell people to know their value and never stay somewhere for long if the pay is that low.
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Her numbers are just insane. 34$ for an internship, 100k+ for her first job. 164k+bonus is absolutely insane considering the yearly bonuses Riot must give. I don't know if Riot uses a visible, clear distribution or if it's discretionary. Going to assume it's discretionary as it's the case in most studios. Seeing her position + the fact that she is a pretty prominent figure, she must clear a lot of money from those bonuses as well.
But it's the American reality I guess. There's still a lot of money needed for health insurance, rent/property prices are insanely high and there's most likely a lot of other costs that exist just from living in the US that I'm not taking into account. Still think it's amazing despite the living prices.
Going to check this thoroughly, I have roughly the same experience as her but I'm nowhere near her salary. Her entry level job salary is about 25k more than my current one, and about 70k more than my entry game design job.
70k would be about the yearly salary of the 34$/h internship.
although that's quite nice to look into, it does not make any sense if you don't have the salary comparison between countries as well. One can be 40% cheaper but earn 50% less as well, so the living cost in the end is bigger.
I was thinking about Spain. It has a 60 something (which means it's quite cheap) but wages over here are horrendous.
On topic now: i'm kind of amused at the heavy differences between companyies and positions. And some of them make more than what i was expecting. I have the best salary among my friends by a long shot (different sector) but there's people on these tweets who earn even more than me!
Some of these numbers seem crazy to me holy shit :D 100k a year, what?
But I guess the context is very very different between the US (and a city like LA) and Belgium.
I make 1750€ per month as a 3D artist here, not in the gaming industry tho (sadly).
It's neither great nor bad and I can totally live a happy life with that, but compared to some of these numbers, wow.
Btw interns are not paid here. Not a cent, that's how it is.
On the plus side you get an internship very easily, but on the other side...
But I guess the context is very very different between the US (and a city like LA) and Belgium.
I make 1750€ per month as a 3D artist here, not in the gaming industry tho (sadly).
It's neither great nor bad and I can totally live a happy life with that, but compared to some of these numbers, wow.
Btw interns are not paid here. Not a cent, that's how it is.
On the plus side you get an internship very easily, but on the other side...
Yeah that's starting wage for a nurse where I live (i.e. what my spouse was making as a new grad nurse 4 years ago). I don't want to sell short whatever her responsibilities were at EA but I would assume there would be a bit of a wage gap between licensed health care professional and starting as an intern at a game developer.
And comparing it to the QA wages that have come out from this is crazy.
She appears to live in Los Angeles though. Cost of living must be insane over there, so let's keep that in mind. That said, yeah, she appears to be very, very well paid.Her numbers are just insane. 34$ for an internship, 100k+ for her first job. 164k+bonus is absolutely insane considering the yearly bonuses Riot must give. I don't know if Riot uses a visible, clear distribution or if it's discretionary. Going to assume it's discretionary as it's the case in most studios. Seeing her position + the fact that she is a pretty prominent figure, she must clear a lot of money from those bonuses as well.
But it's the American reality I guess. There's still a lot of money needed for health insurance, rent/property prices are insanely high and there's most likely a lot of other costs that exist just from living in the US that I'm not taking into account. Still think it's amazing despite the living prices.
Going to check this thoroughly, I have roughly the same experience as her but I'm nowhere near her salary. Her entry level job salary is about 25k more than my current one, and about 70k more than my entry game design job.
70k would be about the yearly salary of the 34$/h internship.
Yeah, Riot is in Santa Monica which is a crazy expensive area. Not sure it's SF bad for example but it's pretty high up.
Yes, i answered to the assumption that €1500 is a good wage for europe, and wanted to show with a cost of living index that it is not a good wage for everywhere in europe.
List of european countries by average wage
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It's LA tho so she's getting paid a normal salary there.Her numbers are just insane. 34$ for an internship, 100k+ for her first job. 164k+bonus is absolutely insane considering the yearly bonuses Riot must give. I don't know if Riot uses a visible, clear distribution or if it's discretionary. Going to assume it's discretionary as it's the case in most studios. Seeing her position + the fact that she is a pretty prominent figure, she must clear a lot of money from those bonuses as well.
But it's the American reality I guess. There's still a lot of money needed for health insurance, rent/property prices are insanely high and there's most likely a lot of other costs that exist just from living in the US that I'm not taking into account. Still think it's amazing despite the living prices.
Going to check this thoroughly, I have roughly the same experience as her but I'm nowhere near her salary. Her entry level job salary is about 25k more than my current one, and about 70k more than my entry game design job.
70k would be about the yearly salary of the 34$/h internship.
Oh yeah, def. The west coast in general is pretty insane living cost style. Was looking at Vancouver for a while, had an offer from Capcom Vancouver (glad I didn't go in the circumstances), and the salary upgrade was pretty good but calculating the living costs I would have ended up making less than in Quebec City.
It's just amazing to see these numbers haha, I'm not judging. Just in awe at the scheer numbers!
About 8-10 years ago I got told by the recruiter that salary was £50k to do general tooling at one of the MS game companies, was either Rare or Lionhead, can't remember. (I was working at MS in a non game dev role at the time making significantly more than that).
Just wait until you hear about the software engineering interns (20 - 22 year olds) making $10K+/month + housing stipend at quants like Jane Street and Two Sigma.
^ hedge fund gone tech salaries are high, yeah, but it's like anyone can walk into them. The standards they hold people to are naturally hard to match and there's a lot of early 30's burnout.
US salaries vary wildly per city too. I live in a city where the mortgage on my 950sqft house is $3500. The salary is appropriate.
I could have the same standard of living in the north of the UK on maybe 1/3 or less of what I currently make.
US salaries vary wildly per city too. I live in a city where the mortgage on my 950sqft house is $3500. The salary is appropriate.
I could have the same standard of living in the north of the UK on maybe 1/3 or less of what I currently make.
Seeing how much some people make is bringing back some old anxiety and self loathing. Over 13 years, I've really been fucked over.
I gotta go lie down now (die).
Fuck I hate myself.
I gotta go lie down now (die).
Fuck I hate myself.
