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Every other Sega property (Yakuza, Persona etc) is doing great so what the hell is wrong with Sonic?

Uzumaki Goku

Uzumaki Goku

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,282
From what I've been seeing… Sonic Colors Ultimate is a BAD HD remaster of a Wii game which is particularly embarrassing since every other Sega property is doing great. So what the hell is wrong with Sonic? If Sega can't get an HD remaster of a Wii game right, what hope is there for next year's game?
 
j3d1j4m13

j3d1j4m13

Member
Feb 24, 2019
577
They have no idea what to do with him. It's sad.

I don't know how we don't have something like Mario Maker but with Sonic. Absolutely criminal.
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,669
Most 3D mascot platformers that aren't Mario are bad. Sonic has never been able to break out of that.
 
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,577
Uzumaki Goku said:
From what I've been seeing… Sonic Colors Ultimate is a BAD HD remaster of a Wii game which is particularly embarrassing since every other Sega property is doing great. So what the hell is wrong with Sonic? If Sega can't get an HD remaster of a Wii game right, what hope is there for next year's game?
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The remaster was developed externally. Rangers being a disaster or not is completely independent.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
Yakuza and Persona are doing well, but that's about it.

Sega's other properties outside of stuff like Football Manager are struggling for other reasons
 
Kawngi

Kawngi

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,219
I think Sonic Mania is the only Sonic game I've enjoyed since... the Dreamcast?
 
VariantX

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,886
Columbia, SC
I wouldn't be surprised if the people who were doing the remaster simply weren't given the time or resources to do it justice. It feels like Sega has this view that Sonic as a quick trip to the ATM instead of being this premier franchise that deserves time and polish so people who get introduced to it become fans. I really feel like Generations was the last 3D sonic game that had that level of polish. And it feels doubly bad because Colors on Wii was the game that made me excited to play 3D sonic again because it felt like those games were finally at a turning point.
 

Deleted member 13798

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
Bad management. They try all of these things, occasionally try something that works, celebrate the good reviews, then try random shit again next time. It's a weird approach.
 
andymcc

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,312
Columbus, OH
Dougieflesh said:
Last good Sonic game was Sonic Adventure 2. It's been almost 20 years since a good one.

Don't @ me
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I'll @ you to say Sonic Mania is better than every 3D Sonic combined :)

Uzumaki Goku said:
From what I've been seeing… Sonic Colors Ultimate is a BAD HD remaster of a Wii game which is particularly embarrassing since every other Sega property is doing great. So what the hell is wrong with Sonic? If Sega can't get an HD remaster of a Wii game right, what hope is there for next year's game?
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from what i can tell-- they outsourced a game that they thought was going to be easy work, during a pandemic, while giving a strict 30 year anniversary deadline
 
Kirbivore

Kirbivore

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,927
VariantX said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the people who were doing the remaster simply weren't given the time or resources to do it justice. It feels like Sega has this view that Sonic as a quick trip to the ATM instead of being this premier franchise that deserves time and polish so people who get introduced to it become fans. I really feel like Generations was the last 3D sonic game that had that level of polish. And it feels doubly bad because Colors on Wii was the game that made me excited to play 3D sonic again because it felt like those games were finally at a turning point.
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I don't think giving the dev team the proper time would help in making a good sonic game
 
Ghostsonplanets

Ghostsonplanets

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,499
PlanetSmasher said:
Most 3D mascot platformers that aren't Mario are bad. Sonic has never been able to break out of that.
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You aren't wrong but prepare yourself for the brigade of fans coming at you.
efyu_lemonardo said:
Sonic Team deserves a break from the blue hedgehog.
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It's the other way around. Sonic deserves a break from 3D and Sonic Team. Mania 2 is a must. Sonic Team also did Sakura Wars and that was a okay game, nothing special. Let's see if Sonic Rangers will be any good. If anything, a open-world formula is a shake-up at least.
 
PumpkinPieAddict

PumpkinPieAddict

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,797
In the case of Persona and Yakuza - those studios had a ton of trial and error + luck to get to where they are today.

Sonic as a game IP has been mismanaged (other than crossovers with Nintendo) and haven't found the right formula for 2021. Sometimes it's a miracle that any game is made with the amount of luck needed.
 
Walnut

Walnut

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
878
Austin, TX
It comes down to poor project management and unrealistic deadlines

In this case, the Switch build caused them problems, and the solution would have been to have another branch for that platform and enough time to polish the two to where they needed to be, but they needed the game to be out by September so that they could get some marketing push for the next Sonic game that apparently is going to tie into Colors Ultimate somehow
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
It's probably just not that high a priority and thus it doesn't get the kind of budget or talent allocated to succeed. Tbh, Sonic itself feels like a bit of an anomaly within today's Sega.
 
SimonM7

SimonM7

Member
Oct 27, 2017
359
Sweden
Colours is cool and has been anchored to a platform that most people skipped or abandoned, and now the port is fraught with issues apparently and probably won't update anybody on it in a favourable way.

Sonic Mania was great, but Sega don't seem to want a game/series around that makes any other Sonic thing they do look like crap.

That's about it I think. 🤔
 
Hexa

Hexa

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,736
Different divisions with different people in charge of them. CS1 (which includes RGG), Atlus, Online, Mobile, and Europe divisions are doing well, but CS2, which is responsible for Sonic, Sakura Wars, and Valkyria Chronicles isn't doing so hot. They do have Puyo Puyo though, so they're not failing completely. The arcade division is also doing terribly, but considering the circumstances it would be impossible for it not to.
 
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,384
Sandfox said:
Yakuza and Persona are doing well, but that's about it.

Sega's other properties outside of stuff like Football Manager are struggling for other reasons
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Isn't Total War doing well, even despite ending support for Three Kingdoms way too early and the fanbase just exploding for a few weeks over that?
 

Deleted member 19702

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,722
Sonic became an guinea pig experiment for Sonic Team. They're clueless about handling the franchise - and the whole gaming industry, too. The only reason why Sega didn't shafted it is because Sonic is one of the most recognizable videogame characters ever. If wasn't for that, it would have the same fate as most Sega IPs.
 
TonyBaduy

TonyBaduy

Member
Oct 11, 2020
2,370
Mexico
I guess the execs just think that as long as the games sell they don't need to care much for their quality, which is why they released Colors Ultimate in that state. Will they fix it? I doubt they'll fix it completely, but they should have delayed it instead of just ruining another Sonic's anniversary.

SyndicateWars said:
Sonic became an guinea pig experiment for Sonic Team. They're clueless about handling the franchise - and the whole gaming industry, too. The only reason why Sega didn't shafted it is because Sonic is one of the most recognizable videogame characters ever. If wasn't for that, it would have the same fate as most Sega IPs.
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I wouldn't say Sonic is a guinea pig, that's Kirby, as he has tons of games with experimental gameplay. Sonic is just the lesser child of Sega and they treat him as such, as long as he makes money no matter the sorry state his games are in, they'll keep releasing them like this.
 
JahIthBer

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,382
Sonic being bad is just a cultural thing at this point, something you just kinda accept & not really want to change or question why it is.
 
Sandfox

Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
Foffy said:
Isn't Total War doing well, even despite ending support for Three Kingdoms way too early and the fanbase just exploding for a few weeks over that?
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Yeah, they have some non-Japanese stuff that does well, which is why I was trying to avoid saying everything is struggling.
 
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,577
Walnut said:
It comes down to poor project management and unrealistic deadlines

In this case, the Switch build caused them problems, and the solution would have been to have another branch for that platform and enough time to polish the two to where they needed to be, but they needed the game to be out by September so that they could get some marketing push for the next Sonic game that apparently is going to tie into Colors Ultimate somehow
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That's usually what Sega does, they have a team make the PS4 / Xbox versions, another for Switch and another for PC. In this case it seems they deemed that too costly and just had Blind Squirrel handle everything.
 
Nairume

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,938
It's a mix of factional infighting and the people in charge never really understanding what made Sonic work.
 
Village

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
A genuine answer. Not allocating enough budget, time and people to sonic has cough up with it. Its been catching up for a while , but its really getting there now. This combined with more aesthetic decisions like removing friends, their personalities and the interesting stories that spawned them as a means to scape goat elements that with thier removal or change might " magically make things good for people " not doing that is also making the back end worse too.

So i guess it just kind of comes down to sega refusing to allocate anything to sonic since the 90's and continuing to refuse to.
Its wild too sonic team made pso. Pso is like the architect for all console mmo's to this day , even things like monster hunter. Its a legendary influential game and it sequels made and make untold amounts of money for sega. You think that would buy sonic team something right? nope
 
Golbez

Golbez

Member
Oct 20, 2020
2,460
If they're doing great where's OutRun 3? 🤔

In all seriousness, the problem was always Sonic Team and their unwillingness to actually stick with a concept/idea. Literally every single game since Adventure 2 was basically Sonic Team trying to reinvent the wheel, failing at it even if the idea is good, then throwing it all out instead of working on it. Even when the idea actually works (Generations, for example), they still turn around and basically say "nah I'm bored let's try something else"
 
mute

mute

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,091
Feels like the people that work on Sonic both don't know what to do with it and won't let anyone else touch it.
 
Village

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
Nairume said:
It's a mix of factional infighting and the people in charge never really understanding what made Sonic work.
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The bolded is also a pretty big factor.

Even outside of gameplay their reach stretches to things like the comics, where sega's interjections and mandates make it worse because its clear that the people making those rules don't get why people liked those characters and things to begin with. And to get back to gameplay...well all you need to do is look at forces to see that it don't seem like they understood why anyone liked anything they put in that game. Gameplay or everything else
 
Ascenion

Ascenion

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,099
Mecklenburg-Strelitz
Every big entertainment company needs a Kevin Feige to put the right people in the right places because goddamn is Sonic in the wrongs hands.
 
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