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Harbinger00

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,760
everyone focusing on Palpatine's name being Sheev and forgetting that Anakin's mom was named Shmi.

Also, the fact that Maul survived might be silly, but his canonical death in Rebels is a good scene. His whole arc through the Clone Wars and Rebels was pretty good, really.
 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
Palpatine is really underestimated.

Not only did he make quick work of the 3 Jedi masters, but he literally TOYS with Maul and Oppress in TCW.

Mans super OP.
It's pretty telling that Sheev outlives the ENTIRE Jedi counsel AND the entire next generation with Luke and all his Jedi padawans.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,215
Tampa, Fl
lol, by and large the EU is garbage. Tell me about Darth Maul surviving

The stupidest part of that was always the spider robot legs. His appearance in the Clone Wars fixed that stupidity immediately.

It's still a bit insane he survived in the first place, but hell, Anakin lost his limbs and was burned by a basalt lava flow and survived so it's not like others haven't survived things just as ridiculous.


Onto the topic at hand, having just finished rereading the Charles Soule Darth Vader comic yesterday, people don't realize what an absolute force of destruction the Darth Vader is meant to be. I don't think any one Jedi or even a group of them could honestly stop him.

He is fed by hatred. Especially anger and hatred of the Jedi and what he believes was taken from him by then.

But by the time of even the Rebels series, he has full control of that rage. Releasing it as needed but no longer allowing it to master him.

Jedi attacking him will only make him more capable as it would increase his strength in the Darkside as he fights.

There is also the fact that Sith fight offensively, while Jedi fight defensively, and since when you are trained to fight it becomes instinctive. So a Jedi is going to fight to protect themselves but a Sith is always going to always be going to the kill, especially Vader.
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
I mean one character is Anakin Skywalker's young apprentice that cared for him very much and fought him as vader and is still around as a light side Force user, the other is his son that cared about redeeming him and is now rebuilding the Jedi order.
Luke's know her from his jedi guide books.
If they didn't met each other back then. It's Probably when he go travel wirh lor sen takka.
But that doesn't mean they should meet.

Star Wars needs to expand, not contract. Which is what would happen if they met.
It isn't like someone asking for The Mando to go randomly bump into Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Cal, Iden, Poe's parents, etc.
Ehh. I kind of feel it's the same though.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
13,678
everyone focusing on Palpatine's name being Sheev and forgetting that Anakin's mom was named Shmi.

Also, the fact that Maul survived might be silly, but his canonical death in Rebels is a good scene. His whole arc through the Clone Wars and Rebels was pretty good, really.
DshvpZ3WsAESSsJ
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,559
These writers are toeing the line as they introduce more and more Jedi survivors into the Imperial era, but Palpatine couldn't be defeated through brute force. Luke, through an act of love, convinced his father to turn, and that alone stopped the Empire. No one but Luke and Leia could save Vader...

...except Ahsoka. Which is why she should probably be dead.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,215
Tampa, Fl
These writers are toeing the line as they introduce more and more Jedi survivors into the Imperial era, but Palpatine couldn't be defeated through brute force. Luke, through an act of love, convinced his father to turn, and that alone stopped the Empire. No one but Luke and Leia could save Vader...

...except Ahsoka. Which is why she should probably be dead.

Not Ahsoka. Dave Filoni did state in interviews that Vader was faking "turning to the light" in their duel in Rebels. That Vader at that time viewed Anakin Skywalker as weak, and something to be destroyed, including his personal connections.

Vader has no love for Ahsoka, because she abandoned him. Anakin loved Ahsoka as a daughter, but she turned away from him and thus, another connection to Skywalker that must be destroyed. Like Obi-wan and like the Jedi.

Luke had the chance to reach him because he was the son he was told was dead. He couldn't hate Luke because Luke was a literal innocent to everything that happened.

Only Luke could redeem Vader. Not even Leia could do it, because Vader already knew who she was who she really was wouldn't matter.
 

J-Wood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,778
You all are forgetting that Ashoka was trained by anakin. I think she could take him
 

Kard8p3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,272
I'm still pissed about what happened to Kit Fisto and Plo Koon. They deserved better.
 

Leviathan

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
Going by classic EU, the Jedi absolutely stomp them and it's not even close. Going by canon, it's harder to say.
 
OP
OP
Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
Ahsoka can't beat Vader by herself. She puts up a great fight but eventually loses in Rebels (we just don't actually see her lose until two seasons later). But hey and Obi-wan together? That could be different.

Of course, that still means no one is matching Sheev. I guess Yoda would definitely need to be included in this, or there's no chance.
 

AstronaughtE

Member
Nov 26, 2017
10,217
I'm still pissed about what happened to Kit Fisto and Plo Koon. They deserved better.
I worked with a girl that was really into Star Wars. We would kill time by theorizing what was going to happen in episode 3. She was incredibly interested what was going to happen to Ayala Secula. I was shocked and appalled at how they did the Jedi, especially when they killed so much time on other stuff.

In fairness, the movie did teach me to temper my expectations from a star wars movie and not build up this fantasy ideal version of what I want to see. My expectations of a grueling Saving Private Ryan-esque final battle were far beyond anything we had seen from the series.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,119
Los Angeles, CA
I think the idea of Jedi surviving is fine. I'd also chock it up to the surviving Jedi being shook as fuck. I mean, The Jedi Council is dead. Mace Windu, one of the most senior members of the Jedi Council? Dead. Yoda, the oldest and wisest of the Jedi Council? Beaten by Palpatine and vanished without a trace. Obi-Wan Kenobi? Last seen confronting Palpatine's apprentice on Mustafar, presumed dead, since Palpatine is still alive, and he has this towering dude dressed in black armor as his right hand man, wiping out any random Jedi he comes across.

I buy that many of the surviving Jedi would view the situation as hopeless, and would keep their Force sensitive status a secret as best they can. With that said, I do think the EU went a little overboard with Order 66 survivors. Force sensitives is a different story, but actual trained Jedi? Maybe tighten the numbers some? Lol
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,626
The new canon is dumb, there are way too many Jedi still alive and the power levels have been upped on all of them. Someone like Cal or Cere or Ahsoka or even freaking Ezra could easily solo OT Vader with their powers and Ezra's stupid space whale powers.

So obviously, the Lucasfilm Story Group also had to make Vader ridiculously OP in comparison with how he originally was since all those other Jedi far outclass any of the Jedi shown in the OT. And don't get me started on the dumb "Inquisitor" nonsense.

Even though the old EU was largely terrible in it's own ways, at least it did make the smart choice by just letting most Jedi be dead or inactive during the OT period, keeping Luke's journey special instead of "Luke's just one of the many active Jedi frolicking around in the Galaxy".

Anyway, to answer your question: No, their combined forces wouldn't be able to take Vader, because Vader has plot armor stronger than any other character.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,626
How is that any different from the old cannon?
Firstly, the old EU was never truly canon, as the official word of God was always that the 'movie canon' was above whatever the books, series or games told you.

Secondly, as I said in my post, as far as I know the old Canon never ever put extremely strong (active) Jedi in the same timeline as the OT. The OT period still had Luke as the basically the only Jedi who dared to openly stand against the Empire and stand a chance. The only other Jedi I can think of that openly fought against the Empire at roughly the same time as Luke was Qu Rahn and he was basically an Obi-Wan case (old guy far past his prime, easily killed by the Empire). Sure, that led to Kyle Katarn but in Dark Forces II he was never portrayed as stronger than Luke in RotJ, while some people in the new canon would wipe the floor with RotJ Luke.

Of course, the old EU had plenty of "Fuck you"-strong Jedi and Sith that far outclassed anything in the movies, but I'm not complaining that stronger Jedi and Sith than OT Vader exist, as OT Vader's scariness never came from the fact that he's apparently literally the strongest Sith that ever lived (as the new canon would want you to believe). It came from how he looked, how he acted and the fact that normal human beings basically don't stand a chance against his powers and how the only people that could have the power to stop Vader are old, hunted down and in hiding.

The new EU wants to create this idea that Vader was literally unbeatable for anyone except Luke Skywalker, which is IMO a dumb idea. Especially since they keep creating Jedi during Luke's time that are much stronger than Luke, so their solution is to just keep increasing Vader's combat prowess. If you consider all the new canon stuff, Vader suddenly seems hilariously depowered in the OT.
 
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Septimus Prime

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
To be fair, all the Jedi around only have strong showings against nobody losers. Yeah, Ezra beats Thrawn, but even then not in a fight. And Thrawn isn't even a Force user of any sort.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
To be fair, all the Jedi around only have strong showings against nobody losers. Yeah, Ezra beats Thrawn, but even then not in a fight. And Thrawn isn't even a Force user of any sort.

I'd say by the end of Rebels Ezra could handle an Inquisitor. He never really got a fight that showed how strong he was with a lightsaber, though, despite showing us how powerful he was in the Force.

But yeah, it's really Kanan and Cal who would do the heavy lifting against Inquisitors. You'd probably want Ahsoka, Obi-Wan and Cere to fight Vader and I have no idea who'd take Palpatine on. I get the feeling he'd just kill them all. Even Vader couldn't kill Palpatine outside of that specific moment where he surprised him and threw him down a well.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,170
it was just a blow to "the jedi order" which was naturally where the who's who of jedi were concentrated at the time. makes sense there's at least a hundred others scattered throughout the galaxy like hayseeds for whatever reason.

though the more you get into it the more of a contrivance it is, sure
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
The new canon is dumb, there are way too many Jedi still alive and the power levels have been upped on all of them. Someone like Cal or Cere or Ahsoka or even freaking Ezra could easily solo OT Vader with their powers and Ezra's stupid space whale powers.

So obviously, the Lucasfilm Story Group also had to make Vader ridiculously OP in comparison with how he originally was since all those other Jedi far outclass any of the Jedi shown in the OT. And don't get me started on the dumb "Inquisitor" nonsense.

Even though the old EU was largely terrible in it's own ways, at least it did make the smart choice by just letting most Jedi be dead or inactive during the OT period, keeping Luke's journey special instead of "Luke's just one of the many active Jedi frolicking around in the Galaxy".

Agreed. Vader is just too ridiculous now.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Honestly, I'm perfectly fine with there being dozens or even hundreds of Jedi left after Order 66. Do ya'll know how big a galaxy is? Our own Milky Way is about 200,000 lightyears in diameter. Even with FTL travel, it's still a huge place. If I ever had a gripe about the Star Wars universe is that it always seemed way too small for the scope of it. Trillions of people, galactic distances between them, and we're supposed to believe that anything important that's ever happened involved about 10 of them.

Disney will fix that in 'Return of the Jedi Recanonized'
I'd actually be ok with that. Especially if they traded out the "NOOOOOOOOO" for it.
 

Deleted member 24097

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
704
Remember when Yoda was the last of the Jedi and Luke his last apprentice, giving a tremendous sense of weight and purpose to his journey?

It also helped the "prophecy" make sense in the Prequels and OT, in that Darth Vader did indeed "bring balance to the force".
He was the one who led the charge against Jedis, eventually bringing down the number to two (Obi-Wan and Yoda) against two Sith Lords (Himself and the Emperor).
When Luke began his Jedi training, he did it again by killing Obi-Wan (again, leaving two Jedis and two Siths).
And again when Yoda died by killing the Emperor with his own hands (leaving one Jedi and one Sith).

Although perhaps involuntary, I always liked the idea this prophecy was not about reinforcing the strength of the Jedis, but rather literally about bringing back both sides of the force to the same level.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,570
Boston, MA
Sheev took down three of the greatest swordsmen in the jedi order in seconds.

I don't care how many other scrubs you throw at him, they ain't getting it done, they ain't bout that action, nevermind adding in Vader.
Lol I was watching a top 10 Jedi list because the Star Wars lore is hella interesting. Kit Fisto was in the top 10 and the dude said like it was some kind of accomplishment that he lasted seconds against Sidious. I didn't know whether to laugh or be impressed.
 

Cocksman

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,514
So I haven't watched Clone Wars. I tried but couldn't get past the baby Hutt. How does Anakin have an apprentice? In ROTS the council wouldn't grant him the rank of Master I thought.
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,870
Darth Vader alone could take out every Jedi and Sith existing at the time.
 

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
Pretty much agree with the consensus here that Ahsoka, Obi Wan and Yoda are the only ones capable of doing anything.

However, Ahsoka was working intelligence for the Rebels. Obi Wan was looking after Luke and whatever else he was doing that will show up on his new show. Yoda, though, he was just hiding and meditating I guess.
 

Fonst

Member
Nov 16, 2017
7,068
If it was before Disney got its hooks into Star Wars, no. Now that we have Disney, everyday is a new Jedi appearing during that time.

Kanaan
Ezra
Yoda
Cal
Obi-wan
Ashoka (I know she gave it up but not really)

There are just jedi/sith/force users all over the place.
 

Charsace

Chicken Chaser
Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,870
It is easy to explain why Vader didn't look crazy op in the ot. He would not be able to dominate obiwan with chokes. In his fights with Luke he was toying with him and had no intention of killing him.

Vader never goes after the emperor because mentally he handcuffed himself.

In the ot he doesn't fight anyone who he doesn't care about and/or is weak. Not hard to explain why the fights look the way they did.