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European leaders have agreed to the UK's request for a three-month (until 31 January 2020) Brexit extension
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
Corbyn can't even admit where he stands personally on the issue, that's his number one problem
he is pro-Brexit but young Brits are pro-Remain
THere's been some studies that have shown that the fabled "Labour-Conservative conversion" who are key to the Tories are doing so much later in life than they used to. It's been a concern for some policy types in the Party.
So when a general election rolls around who should we vote for?
The Liberal Democrats promised to just revoke Article 50 unless I am mistaken but I still remember their tuition fee hike which is not even ancient history yet. However I feel it will be more likely that if anyone other than the conservatives win, it will be Labour and therefore I should support them if my number one priority is to remove the conservatives.
Nurgle would love the apathy and nothing truly happening outside of the slow and inevitable decline of the UK. Shit, the "I don't care what happens, just make it stop" people are basically 1-1 Nurgle cultists, with the exception of them begging brexit to stop instead of the rotting of their bodies.
Whoever is standing in your constituency who can best oppose a pro-Brexit candidate.
If ever there was a time where putting a common goal above party politics is vital, it's this one. I don't give a toss if you end up voting Lib Dem, Labour, Green, Monster Raving Loony, whoever- if you want to stop Brexit, vote tactically.
Polls (for whatever they are worth) show the split at 50/50 right now. I suspect Leave would win again.
What's holding Labour back the most at this point?
Is it Corbyn, specifically? Is it that time is a powerful force and it is on the side of Brexit and so being anti-Brexit means a lower electoral ceiling? Is it whatever issues Labour had leading up to Cameron winning general election and then later on winning again with much better numbers?
Basically, to me, an ignorant American, it feels like Labour is in a lose-lose position. Yes, it'd be nice for the opposition leader to have stronger pro-Remain bonafides. But then the issue becomes how to navigate the British public's (overall) desire to respect the referendum and get the damn thing over with, no? Labour, in general, seems to be in a tough position.
LibDems said they will only revoke A50 if they win with a majority. They're not going to win a majority.
Labour are unlikely to win a majority (based on today) but they could potentially get enough seats to form a coalition government. But depending how many seats short of majority they are, well that in itself presents some real problems. We'd get an all out war between Labour and the independents, LibDems and SNPs all with their own demands to be part of any coalition - whether to revoke A50, whether to hold another referendum, what that would entail, and of course all with the SNP demanding indieref2 as part of any coalition agreement. I can't see how Labour could sign up for that.
On the flipside, if the Tories are in a position slightly short of a majority (as incumbent and having first chance to form a coalition), then that also carries with it the same problems. DUP won't join them this time based on the current withdrawal deal, and going in to coalition with Farage's party could be seen as playing with fire. And everyone else is pro-Remain and/or anti-Johnson.
Either way, it's going to be messy. On one hand it's all going to be wonderfully exciting and entertaining to watch, because pretty much anything can and will happen at this stage. On the other it's scary and depressing as fuck to think this could go on forever and how the uncertainty will only further significantly affect the economy. We desperately need political reform.
which is why an election is a terrible approach to this.
i mean, i know why tories want to do it, but what if i'm a pro-EU tory voter, now i have to vote green*? it's ridiculous.
*for dramatic purposes let's pretend the libdems don't exist
Don't defend them. They've already taken responsibility for being such wet farts whilst they were in power.
Someone post that Tim Farron tweet.
Lib Dems are stealth Tories, don't you ever forget.
It is terrible, but it's the only chance we've got. This Parliament is not going to pass a referendum.
It's weird to take solace in what Nigel FUCKING Farage is saying, but seeing him go so hard on Boris for this deal, and this extension, is surely going to help make the Tories easier to defeat than if he weren't. If Brexit was *truly* his goal (he's a grifter first if you ask me) working with the Tories would be the best strategy.
And a lot of the people who listen to Boris are also swayed by Farage.
"Boris did not say 'I'll do my best to get us out'. He didn't say 'I will try to get us out'. He said we WILL be getting out of the EU by October 31st. Will the Conservatives apologise for breaking their promise?" - NFF.
You're trying to throw a three pointer before the buzzer. It's probably going to miss. But if you don't take the shot you lose. Fingers tightly crossed.
And a lot of the people who listen to Boris are also swayed by Farage.
"Boris did not say 'I'll do my best to get us out'. He didn't say 'I will try to get us out'. He said we WILL be getting out of the EU by October 31st. Will the Conservatives apologise for breaking their promise?" - NFF.
You're trying to throw a three pointer before the buzzer. It's probably going to miss. But if you don't take the shot you lose. Fingers tightly crossed.
Let's assume people become more conservative when they age. What "left" and "right" means change over time though. It's not that long ago that women voting was a controversial idea and I'm sure left/right axis had some very different opinions on the subject.
On this particular subject (being member of EU), I don't see why people being more conservative would mean they would be more anti-EU. None of the driving ideas behind anti-EU attitude are inherently conservative.
Yeah, I hate them for it. With the conservatives it's to be expected, I was not surprised but with the Liberal Democrats I am pretty sure one of their campaign promises was to not increase tuition fees, they can go **** themselves.
EDIT: Now that I am reviewing it, **** them, I decided my vote is going to Labour.
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Leave won't win again. I believe the tide has turned and most people are against Brexit.
It's important that we do all we can to kill off Brexit, otherwise we're going to be left out of the USE project. The future of the EU is federal state very much like the USA currently. Rather than national counties like France,.UK, Germany etc etc, we will have EU region states in their place with a combined USE armed forces. That's the future of Europe that I want to be part of and that we should be campaigning for.
First though we need to kill off Brexit. The longer this drama goes on, the more fed up people become with the whole process. Speaking of personal experience, my grandfather was a huge Brexit supporter, but as it's dragged on he now knows he's been taken for a fool and wants the UK to remain. I doubt he's the only one.
I was talking about which parties people might vote for not whether they are pro or anti EU as a result. I agree that the correlation there doesn't make sense.
After all, a huge chunk of Brexit voters are (or were) left leaning Labour voters. Many of the people who voted for Brexit are ironically the ones who would benefit most from both the EU and a Labour government, living in poor areas of social injustice. But "bring back control!!!" etc.
I don't know where your confidence comes from. Even if there was another referendum, and Remain won, I think even the most optimistic people would say there will be at least 45% of the vote for Leave. There really hasn't been much of a change since the vote in public opinion, if anything, there are a decent chunk of people who voted Remain who would rather "just get it done".
A vision of a European superstate certainly isn't going to win any more votes (though if you share stories of them killing migrants in the Mediterranean Sea - maybe it would).
Anti-immigration is the driving idea behind anti-EU attitude of today. Which is a pillar of modern conservatism.
If you want to get rid of the Tories, vote for a party locally that can get rid of the Tories.
If you live in a bit of the country where your vote doesn't matter, go ask Mr Corbyn why he doesn't back voting reform.
Season 3 of brexit is wild. I for one am happy that season 4 is coming. There we talks of ending this show.
I'd rate it as one of the best shows on TV at the moment.
I'd rate it as one of the best shows on TV at the moment.
I'm so sorry if you're only realistic options are Tory or Lib Dem
Obviously you should vote Lib Dem in that instance
And yet I can still say that they're trash.
Yeah but the series won't be the same now that Mad Lad Bercow has left the show, it's like getting Ashton Kucher to replace that guy who kept saying "Bi-Winning!"
Fully agree, though, I would say a vote for the Lib Dems are as good as a vote for the Tories.
The Lib Dem leader has ruled out supporting a Labour government (as they have done for the last several elections). They have not ruled out going into coalition with, or supporting a Tory government.
Given that the only two options for the next PM of the UK are Corbyn or Johnson - it seems that a Lib Dem vote is by default a Tory vote anyway. Their leader has voted with the Tory whip more times than many Tories anyway.
I'd say there are a larger chunk of people that voted leave, but are now sick of it and want to remain, but we'll agree to disagree on this.
A EU superstate won't win any voters over. That we can both agree with, but this will be a gradual process that happens over the next decade or so. Let's say we end up remaining. The next step will be to plough ahead with the EU superstate movement.
It's the real next phase of the EU. No more countries. No more nationalism. Just one big united EU state. But first we need to carry on with the remain movement and convince people we're better off in and make them see they were sold a lie in 2016.
EU has no spine at all. Why allow yet another extension of this mess? I thought France said they wouldn't back it. No member veto'ed this ongoing joke. UK has shown no sign of progress since the initial Brexit vote. Three months isn't going to change much.
How the fuck is this the case when they keep fucking things up? Jesus what in the hell.
"Yes but the left want to institute shakira law and bring scary immigrant in our country, I would never vote for them"
There is very little downside to the EU in them granting an extension.
No EU country is going to allow a member (Ireland) go through the devastation that a No Deal Brexit would bring. They'll accept any extension requests for as long as they can.
It's hard to argue with intelligent and thoughtful discourse like that.
It would have cratered the economies of multiple countries. People would die. It's a stupid, fatuous thing to say that only demonstrates your total lack of knowledge of the subject.
Put that on the side of a bus, sounds like a vote winner....