EU Proposes a Mandate on Interoperability of Messaging Platforms

thisismadness · Mar 25, 2022

Today the EU Updated the Digital Markets Act include basic cross messaging interoperability.

During a close to 8-hour long trilogue (three-way talks between Parliament, Council and Commission), EU lawmakers agreed that the largest messaging services (such as Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger or iMessage) will have to open up and interoperate with smaller messaging platforms, if they so request. Users of small or big platforms would then be able to exchange messages, send files or make video calls across messaging apps, thus giving them more choice. As regards interoperability obligation for social networks, co-legislators agreed that such interoperability provisions will be assessed in the future.

New EU law could require iMessage and WhatsApp to work with other, smaller platforms

Blue bubble dominance may be on the way out

www.theverge.com

This thing will be wild if it becomes law. Previously agreed policies of the DMA:

Gatekeepers Will Have To:

Ensure that users have the right to unsubscribe from core platform services under similar conditions to subscription.

For the the most important software (e.g. web browsers), not require this software by default upon installation of the operating system.

Ensure the interoperability of their instant messaging services' basic functionalities.

Allow app developers fair access to the supplementary functionalities of smartphones (e.g. NFC chip).

Give sellers access to their marketing or advertising performance data on the platform.

Inform the European Commission of their acquisitions and mergers.

But They Can No Longer:

Rank their own products or services higher than those of others (self-preferencing).

Reuse private data collected during a service for the purposes of another service.

Establish unfair conditions for business users.

Pre-install certain software applications.

Require app developers to use certain services (e.g. payment systems or identity providers) in order to be listed in app stores.

EU Provisionally Agrees on Law That Would Force Apple to Allow Alternative App Stores, Sideloading, and iMessage Interoperability

European lawmakers have provisionally agreed upon a new law that would force Apple to allow user access to third-party app stores and permit the...

www.macrumors.com

Companies could be fined 10% of global revenue if they don't comply.

MamaSpaghetti · Mar 25, 2022

This sounds great. Apples walled garden approach to messaging has had very negative impacts on the lives of children, this might work to fix that.

Diablos · Mar 25, 2022

Good. There's nothing worse than a group text when not everyone is using iMessage. There's zero reason to not standardize text messaging.

Wrexis · Mar 25, 2022

Well Apple are going wireless to dodge the EU's USB-C mandate, I wonder how they'll dodge this for iMessage and RCS.

Sec0nd · Mar 25, 2022

This is legit a good idea. It would help people being excluded from the conversation because they are 'not on the app' and would help with the bullying people would face because of it. And it would also help somewhat release the strangehold Whatsapp has, and thus Facebook has, over the European market. I would love to drop everything Facebook, but dropping Whatsapp is literal social and business suicide.

MamaSpaghetti · Mar 25, 2022

Wrexis said:
Well Apple are going wireless to dodge the EU's USB-C mandate

Pretty sure that would violate the regulation and result in fines. But is off topic for this post.

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

It will probably just lead to Apple just disabling iMessage in Europe. It's not that popular there anyway. Although, maybe they don't and this leads to iMessage becoming more popular there. The other measures are nice to see though.

MamaSpaghetti said:
Pretty sure that would violate the regulation and result in fines. But is off topic for this post.

It would not. The USB-C mandate is for devices that are "capable" of being charged with a wire. If Apple goes with wireless and removes the port, the device is no longer capable of being charged with a wire.

Bigkrev · Mar 25, 2022

What are they going to define as a messaging service? Like, will Signal be forced to open up and have all their messages compatible with everything else? That's clearly a messaging service. What about something like dating apps- will "private messages" in those be forced to be opened up? Or is that not primarily considered a "messaging" service?

The Albatross · Mar 25, 2022

Excellent idea. Hope it makes change here.

Bigkrev said:
What are they going to define as a messaging service? Like, will Signal be forced to open up and have all their messages compatible with everything else? That's clearly a messaging service. What about something like dating apps- will "private messages" in those be forced to be opened up? Or is that not primarily considered a "messaging" service?

From the description, yes, Signal would have to have basic interoperability with smaller messenger clients if they requested. I'm not sure if Signal is large enough to be a target of this, they'd probably be a beneficiary of it.

Signal already can communicate via SMS as a basic protocol for "out-of-network" messaging, so if a smaller client supported SMS then that'd probably be a baseline of support.

For dating app message services, they might not be big or broad enough, or they might be protected under a special status. Like, for instance, secure messaging on your medical portal would most likely not have to open up this way, although it is a messaging service between you and your healthcare provider. The way it's written it seems to clearly target the largest, most consolidated messaging services, not niche or special use messaging. There's messaging features on my fantasy football app, but I doubt that is broad and used enough to have to open up out of network.

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

Bigkrev said:
What are they going to define as a messaging service? Like, will Signal be forced to open up and have all their messages compatible with everything else? That's clearly a messaging service. What about something like dating apps- will "private messages" in those be forced to be opened up?

According to the proposed law, companies with a value of more than €75 billion ($83 billion), annual sales of €7.5 billion, and at least 45 million monthly users will meet its "gatekeeper" criteria, which comes with the following obligations and commitments.

Doubt those smaller ones will, but it might compromise end-to-end encryption on other apps like WhatsApp/iMessage.

MamaSpaghetti · Mar 25, 2022

Sullivan said:
It will probably just lead to Apple just disabling iMessage in Europe. It's not that popular there anyway. Although, maybe they don't and this leads to iMessage becoming more popular there. The other measures are nice to see though.

It would not. The USB-C mandate is for devices that are "capable" of being charged with a wire. If Apple goes with wireless and removes the port, the device is no longer capable of being charged with a wire.

Looks like you're right,

A spokesperson for the Commission has confirmed to The Verge that if a device charges only wirelessly, then there is no requirement to integrate a USB-C charging port.

However, Apple will need to seriously work on wireless transfer speeds if this is their goal. Guess we will see :p

BaconHat · Mar 25, 2022

Bigkrev said:
What are they going to define as a messaging service? Like, will Signal be forced to open up and have all their messages compatible with everything else? That's clearly a messaging service. What about something like dating apps- will "private messages" in those be forced to be opened up? Or is that not primarily considered a "messaging" service?

Yeah, thiking avout the details of this, this seems like an immense clusterfuck of compatibilities and data restructuring waiting to happen.

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

MamaSpaghetti said:
Looks like you're right,

However, Apple will need to seriously work on wireless transfer speeds if this is their goal. Guess we will see :p

Apple users have already conformed to USB 2 speeds. They will just sell you iCloud.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 25, 2022

This sounds impossible. Apple is the least of the concerns here. The only way really is back to old fashioned text messages.

johancruijff · Mar 25, 2022

read the news yesterday, and i don't think the sms thing is the juiciest part lol

SwampBastard · Mar 25, 2022

Fucking amazing, please make this happen. Make them all support RCS and work together to make it a better platform.

Diablos said:
There's nothing worse than a group text when not everyone is using iMessage.

Not as bad as listening to iMessage folks bitch about it. I say this as an iPhone user.

thisismadness · Mar 25, 2022

Bigkrev said:
What are they going to define as a messaging service? Like, will Signal be forced to open up and have all their messages compatible with everything else? That's clearly a messaging service. What about something like dating apps- will "private messages" in those be forced to be opened up? Or is that not primarily considered a "messaging" service?

They seem to be separating "Messaging Services" and "Social Networks". It sounds like they haven't fully commited to making the same rule apply to social networks (I assume dating websites would fall under the Social Network category).

As regards interoperability obligation for social networks, co-legislators agreed that such interoperability provisions will be assessed in the future.

Diablos · Mar 25, 2022

SwampBastard said:
Fucking amazing, please make this happen. Make them all support RCS and work together to make it a better platform.

Not as bad as listening to iMessage folks bitch about it. I say this as an iPhone user.

Oh yeah of course. It makes my blood boil when fellow iMessage users in the thread are like OMG WHY ARE THESE TEXTS GREEN AND COMING IN WEIRD IS THIS HAPPENING TO ANYONE ELSE?!?!?! Epic facepalm moments.

julia crawford · Mar 25, 2022

Holy cow. This would be very impressive.

If this happens even i could do a messaging service that is essentially a wrapper for whatsapp with more functionality.

Dascu · Mar 25, 2022

Sullivan said:
It would not. The USB-C mandate is for devices that are "capable" of being charged with a wire. If Apple goes with wireless and removes the port, the device is no longer capable of being charged with a wire.

The proposed law is still being discussed and negotiated. There will in any case be obligations on the Commission to review and add in wireless charging in the coming years, if it's not already included from the start.

By the way, printers, electric toothbrushes, video game handhelds and even laptops are quite likely to be in scope too. Not just phones.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Mar 25, 2022

Doesn't iMessage already support sms and can't you FaceTime time with non iPhone users? What would this change, bubble color? Wouldn't they just be able to maintain the bubble colors so long as the same functionality was there

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

SwampBastard said:
Fucking amazing, please make this happen. Make them all support RCS and work together to make it a better platform.

RCS has many issues. One it's not natively E2E encrypted, it's only E2E encrypted through the Google Messages app. Also it runs entirely on Google's infrastructure that they provided to carriers.

Dascu said:
The proposed law is still being discussed and negotiated. There will in any case be obligations on the Commission to review and add in wireless charging in the coming years, if it's not already included from the start.

By the way, printers, electric toothbrushes, video game handhelds and even laptops are quite likely to be in scope too. Not just phones.

Laptops won't be. They already said as much. Video game handhelds will be. Also whatever wireless charging rules they come up with, Apple will and already probably supports. MagSafe doesn't prevent Qi from existing. All it does is just put magnets around the wireless charger.

MamaSpaghetti · Mar 25, 2022

Dascu said:
By the way, printers, electric toothbrushes, video game handhelds and even laptops are quite likely to be in scope too. Not just phones.

Hope so. Tired of micro USB and all the other random chargers. USB C is the way.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 25, 2022

bonesawisready5 said:
Doesn't iMessage already support sms and can't you FaceTime time with non iPhone users? What would this change, bubble color? Wouldn't they just be able to maintain the bubble colors so long as the same functionality was there

Whats app would have to talk to other platforms like line or telegram etc, it's more than just apple and Google

Dascu · Mar 25, 2022

Sullivan said:
Laptops won't be. They already said as much. Video game handhelds will be.

I assume you're basing your comments on the original Commission proposal. Parliament and Council have been providing amendments. I refer you to those tabled in the Parliament's Internal Market committee on the scope list of Annex I (see AM180 onwards): https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/IMCO-AM-704875_EN.pdf

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

Dascu said:
I assume you're basing your comments on the original Commission proposal. Parliament and Council have been providing amendments. I refer you to those tabled in the Parliament's Internal Market committee on the scope list of Annex I (see AM180 onwards): https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/IMCO-AM-704875_EN.pdf

That's good to see. I was pretty annoyed that laptops, which are the biggest offenders of proprietary connections, were excluded. I still don't believe anything they do regarding wireless charging will prevent Apple from just going to MagSafe.

CDX · Mar 25, 2022

Will this compromise Signal? Is this a roundabout way to try and legislate away encryption?

SwampBastard · Mar 25, 2022

Sullivan said:
RCS has many issues. One it's not natively E2E encrypted, it's only E2E encrypted through the Google Messages app. Also it runs entirely on Google's infrastructure that they provided to carriers.

I know, that's why I want everyone -- especially Apple -- to collaborate and improve the foundation.

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

CDX said:
Will this compromise Signal? Is this a roundabout way to try and legislate away encryption?

It depends if Signal/Telegram decide to do this, but linking messaging services together probably will have some weaknesses that can be exploited.

whatsinaname · Mar 25, 2022

Yes! Do it!

We need a new non-tech-bro controlled structure for messaging. (Like http is for the web).

India did something similar to their banking system and it has been one of the greatest tech advances ever.

Aske · Mar 25, 2022

I love the EU so much. I just hope that this doesn't result in lowered security or removal of privacy.

subpar spatula · Mar 25, 2022

Ummm why? I am confused as to why they want all messaging services to be operable with one another. Like, so I message a group in WhatsApp and it appears on my friend's iMessage?

Xando · Mar 25, 2022

Ensure the interoperability of their instant messaging services' basic functionalities.

Basic is the keyword here. iMessage already supports SMS so this should be no problem for them.

Sounds like instead of abolishing green bubbles they'll add another color for non imessage clients

mugurumakensei · Mar 25, 2022

CDX said:
Will this compromise Signal? Is this a roundabout way to try and legislate away encryption?

it's still possible to have E2E encryption but greatly increases the risk of man in the middle attacks but as above if it's just basic integration sms communication would already qualify.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Mar 25, 2022

Off topic but any news on EU forcing steam to let users resell digital games? Loving most of these rulings coming out of the EU

whatsinaname · Mar 25, 2022

subpar spatula said:
Ummm why? I am confused as to why they want all messaging services to be operable with one another. Like, so I message a group in WhatsApp and it appears on my friend's iMessage?

It's a basic standard, like the government saying that all electricity in a country should be at 110v/60hz. How it is delivered or what sources each power company does is on them.

Look at how users are locked into Discord or Slack or other such gardens instead of having different clients for an open IRC standard.

Or look at WeChat in China and how it corrals and walls all the scheduling/payment/review/chat apps with in.

A good implementation of standards is OpenBanking in the UK or UPI in India.

trashbandit · Mar 25, 2022

Apple will just rebrand to iMessage being a "correspondence" service or some shit.

Deleted member 21469 · Mar 25, 2022

In before cries of innovation stifling.

AuthenticM · Mar 25, 2022

smash all walled gardens

Psittacus · Mar 25, 2022

Messaging and social media as a standardised protocol is a necessity to break the network effect and diminish the power that these companies have over their users. I'm all for it.

FLEABttn · Mar 25, 2022

MamaSpaghetti said:
Apples walled garden approach to messaging has had very negative impacts on the lives of children, this might work to fix that.

oh come on

FliX · Mar 25, 2022

Xando said:
Basic is the keyword here. iMessage already supports SMS so this should be no problem for them.

Sounds like instead of abolishing green bubbles they'll add another color for non imessage clients

Yea this is where I am at too, I don't see how this affects iMessage.
Anyone can text me and I receive it in my Messages app and I can text anyone too and they receive it on their phone.

Now if I want to "text" someone using e.g. slack, then I am shit out of luck, but unless they want to ban SMS or make SMS available to non-phone platforms I don't see how this could possibly work...

Either way, I am curious to see how this pans out...

whatsinaname · Mar 25, 2022

FliX said:
Now if I want to "text" someone using e.g. slack, then I am shit out of luck, but unless they want to ban SMS or make SMS available to non-phone platforms I don't see how this could possibly work...

I think/hope that's the goal. A lot of communication is leaving SMS via cell towers and is being done over data. Any new features are now walled or being fought over by tech companies and cell phone providers (RCS).

We need a good next gen SMS definition not from the industry but from regulators.

Mihai_ad_astra · Mar 25, 2022

To me it's interesting if Tencent will comply and allow WeChat to be inter-operable with other apps. My gut says no, but it'll be interesting to see what happens.

Irrotational · Mar 25, 2022

imagine 8 different versions of email, none of which can send messages across to each other.

Deleted member 93062 · Mar 25, 2022

Irrotational said:
imagine 8 different versions of email, none of which can send messages across to each other.

I mean you can text people just fine through SMS.

carloshacecosas · Mar 25, 2022

I'm in Europe, and I use iMessage, Telegram and WhatsApp — all of them for different purposes, with diifferent notification settings.

Being forced to get all messages in the same app would make me pretty mad, tbh.

linkboy · Mar 25, 2022

Sullivan said:
I mean you can text people just fine through SMS.

For text sure. Start adding modern messaging usage (pictures, videos, etc) and it's limitations start to be shown.

SMS wasn't designed for how it's being used today. It originally had a character limit of 160 and lacked picture or video support.

It's been stretched well beyond its original design.

The fact that we're still using a messaging protocol that was developed in the first Reagan administration is pathetic.

Dascu · Mar 25, 2022

bonesawisready5 said:
Off topic but any news on EU forcing steam to let users resell digital games? Loving most of these rulings coming out of the EU

No, and the Commission is very unlikely to try to tackle that hornet's nest.

FliX · Mar 25, 2022

[/QUOTE]
We will see but even then I could see this still impacting Apple the least.

carloshacecosas said:
I'm in Europe, and I use iMessage, Telegram and WhatsApp — all of them for different purposes, with diifferent notification settings.

Being forced to get all messages in the same app would make me pretty mad, tbh.

No matter how this shakes out none of it has any indication of "forcing" you to use a single app, quite the opposite no?

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