I don't think there's any need as long as the US is willing to defend/bear the brunt of the cost
This is really the bottom line.You act as if the current situation is hurting the EU. By having little military costs, they are able to fund a better quality of life for their people.
The U.S. is subsidizing their lifestyles.
I mean...that's a very blunt way of articulating what will be probably the greatest security issue Europe will face this century.The only other entity that spends more on the military than the EU 28 is the United States. An EU army? To do what? More effectively murder climate refugees?
The EU spends a total of just under 200€ billion on military. The US spends 500€ billion on military and has a bigger military than like the next 12 countries combined or something. There is no way the EU needs to match that. Even half the US military budget is plenty for the EU (250€ billion) which is a small increase. I don't believe that is even necessary because in either case the EU would have the second largest military in the world by far. The US' budget is a bloated result of corporate lobbying and is in no way a benchmark for what the EU (Or anyone) should be spending on military unless the EU plans on going to war with the US.There is no way the EU can replace what the US military provides without a massive increase in spending. For example, Europe right now has almost no ability to project power beyond their borders without US help.
Exactly.AmFreak said:The combined countries in the EU already have the:
- 2nd biggest army size after China
- 2nd biggest military budget after the US
- 2nd biggest fleet after the US
And costs would go down with an EU wide army, because of then redundant equipment and R&D.
The combined countries in the EU already have the:You act as if the current situation is hurting the EU. By having little military costs, they are able to fund a better quality of life for their people.
The U.S. is subsidizing their lifestyles.
In no way would the EU spending more then China and Russia on defense mean they have a larger military than those powers do. Far from it.The EU spends a total of just under 200€ billion on military. The US spends 500€ billion on military and has a bigger military than like the next 12 countries combined or something. There is no way the EU needs to match that. Even half the US military budget is plenty for the EU (250€ billion) which is a small increase. I don't believe that is even necessary because in either case the EU would have the second largest military in the world by far. The US' budget is a bloated result of corporate lobbying and is in no way a benchmark for what the EU (Or anyone) should be spending on military unless the EU plans on going to war with the US.
Again, the EU just needs cooperation, harmonisation, and a single budget in order for that money to actually be put to effective use to project military power.
Exactly.
If Germany would spend "those 2%" then the german army would instantly be the 4th largest army in the world. And thats something nobody wants.In no way would the EU spending more then China and Russia on defense mean they have a larger military than those powers do. Far from it.
If Germany would spend "those 2%" then the german army would instantly be the 4th largest army in the world. And thats something nobody wants.
Well typically to make an army larger you need to add people to it, not just money. And that process takes time.If Germany would spend "those 2%" then the german army would instantly be the 4th largest army in the world. And thats something nobody wants.
While you are definately correct that increasing manpower takes a lot of time:Well typically to make an army larger you need to add people to it, not just money. And that process takes time.
Not even us germans want germany to have a large powerful army. Germany is already investing almost 2% of its GDP but the larger share goes into foreign humanitarian aid instead of the military. There's no way that germany would focus on creating a large military force within the next years because we're kinda sick of wars.Somebody has to lead Europe in the future, it's either going to be France or Germany
It certainly matters less, but you still need soldiers to fight wars.While you are definately correct that increasing manpower takes a lot of time:
I'd argue that raw manpower doesn't matter that much anymore because everything is dominated by equipment and technology.
The idea that you can easily merge together 27 different armies (I'm excluding the United Kingdom) ... it doesn't work like that.If the EU were serious about standing on their own militarily, the would need to combine all their forces, grow their numbers, and conduct a massive build out program. That would be incredibly expensive, but without that they would not be able to stand against a determined attack from hostile powers.
I never said they would need to match US defense spending, but you are significantly underestimating the investment they would need to make.
If Germany would spend "those 2%" then the german army would instantly be the 4th largest army in the world. And thats something nobody wants.