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EU: Complaint submitted to European Commission on Joy-Con Drift

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,953
So people claiming Nintendo can't fix this critical issue should maybe explain why that's a consumers fault? If they can't fix it totally then they should keep spending the money to repair them for free even if they have to constantly repair the same ones over and over, it isn't the consumers fault they made a defective device.

Or they should redesign the thing even if it means changing the shape and thickness of them in a new revision. Are we going to ignore that Microsoft had a huge period of faulty xbox 360s and they in the end were forced to repair them when they broke? And Microsoft then set out to redesign the system internals to stop the issue?

Nintendo isn't a special company, they aren't allowed to sell defective products and then demand that consumers pay to fix the issues that such products have after the fact when it was defective from the start.
 
WrenchNinja

WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,745
Canada
Fuck Nintendo and fuck this piece of shit controller. And fuck everyone weeping for Nintendo's business, why should anyone give a shit.
 
MatrixMan.exe

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,500
Good. It's happened to a few of mine but it's easy enough to fix, luckily. Shouldn't be happening though so Nintendo should be taken to task.

Having said that, what exactly is the the cause of this? When I fix mine I just replace the stick in full so I've not got a good grasp on the core issue.
 
oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Zoon said:
They should seriously consider banning the sale of Switches and joy-cons. For all we know they might have intentionally left this flaw to get people to buy more accessories.
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Yeah if they somehow manage to ban them from being sold until this is fixed, watch them come out with a new model with working Joycons within 3 months (I imagine they already have a working prototype as they'll be working on the new Switch and they'd be insane to not fix this as the first thing they do)
 
donpiano

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
Hopefully this forces NoE to take the issue seriously and offer free repairs like in the US. (For those unaware, NoE hasn't applied the free repair policy for joy-con drift yet).
 

Deleted member 44122

Guest
donpiano said:
Hopefully this forces NoE to take the issue seriously and offer free repairs like in the US. (For those unaware, NoE hasn't applied the free repair policy for joy-con drift yet).
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not officially anyway, though they still repaired my 2 out of warranty drifting joycons for free in germany
 
Oregano

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
MatrixMan.exe said:
Good. It's happened to a few of mine but it's easy enough to fix, luckily. Shouldn't be happening though so Nintendo should be taken to task.

Having said that, what exactly is the the cause of this? When I fix mine I just replace the stick in full so I've not got a good grasp on the core issue.
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As I understand it(which might be completely wrong) all analog sticks are somewhat susceptible to dift as the mechanism inside can wear down through use. The Joycon sticks are more prone to it due to the much smaller profile(and deadzone), and in particular because the mechanism can scratch a graphene pad inside which can cause debris to block the sensor.

Presumably not an easy fix but at the very least they should be forced to cover replacements.
 
Symphony

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Oregano said:

It's definitely not unheard of. It's hard to say if it's as prevalent as the Joycons considering the disparity in terms of number produced.
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Definitely, all analog sticks drift by nature (something I wish a fix could be found for) of which there is no doubt - look at PS3, XO or PS4 controllers and how many reports you get about those. Vita stick drift wasn't out of proportion to any other console though, most of the reports you see are after years of use whereas Switch joycons pretty much have a 1 year limit before you're at a very high risk of it happening. Personally I never once had to reject a Vita trade-in or process a returned system during its shelf life due to stick drift, while comparatively even with the New 3DS XL I saw it a few times.
 
Ephonk

Ephonk

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,944
Belgium
Their solution will be a new joycon in the future that isn't clickable. As apparently every clickable analogue solution the size of the switch will have this same problem.

and people will complain about the loss of functionality

If I were nintendo i'd put heavy funds in research for alternatives to the complete architecture the current joysticks are based on.
 
donpiano

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
Oregano said:
The Joycon sticks are more prone to it due to the much smaller profile(and deadzone)
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Honestly baffling that Nintendo hasn't put out an update letting you modify the deadzone for controllers. Making it 1.2 bigger would probably paliate most of the drifting issues people keep reporting.
 
cw_sasuke

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,401
donpiano said:
Hopefully this forces NoE to take the issue seriously and offer free repairs like in the US. (For those unaware, NoE hasn't applied the free repair policy for joy-con drift yet).
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Two colleagues had no issues replacing their Joycons for free last year - launch Joycons out of warranty (Germany).

It might differ in some other EU countries though.
 
Puroresu_kid

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
Nintendo at a minimum should offer free repair or replacement in every region switch is sold. That shouldn't be up for debate whether its in warrenty or not.

As far as I know Nintendo Europe hasn't even acknowledged the issue which simply isn't good enough.
 
Hope

Hope

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,065
Iam shocked about the excuses in here. It's not a samsung case where a the note 7 I think literally blew up for alot of user but it's still need fixing like 3 years ago. They deserve alot more flak for it. Having muddy design is okay but dont fixing it for years and years sucks ass. Mine started drifting a month after I bought it. Still super mad about it.
 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,235
LinkStrikesBack said:
I don't know what can possibly come out of this. They'll probably get fined and ... I dunno beyond that.
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They will also have to repair all joycons for free or accept refunds for selling faulty items. Right now Nintendo didn't acknowleged any problems with joycons in EU, so there aren't any replacement programs in place.
 
Oregano

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Symphony said:
Definitely, all analog sticks drift by nature (something I wish a fix could be found for) of which there is no doubt - look at PS3, XO or PS4 controllers and how many reports you get about those. Vita stick drift wasn't out of proportion to any other console though, most of the reports you see are after years of use whereas Switch joycons pretty much have a 1 year limit before you're at a very high risk of it happening. Personally I never once had to reject a Vita trade-in or process a returned system during its shelf life due to stick drift, while comparatively even with the New 3DS XL I saw it a few times.
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I never knew the 3DS Circle Pads to drift tbh, I always thought the issue was the cover shearing off(thanks Smash) so that's interesting.

donpiano said:
Honestly baffling that Nintendo hasn't put out an update letting you modify the deadzone for controllers. Making it 1.2 bigger would probably paliate most of the drifting issues people keep reporting.
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Yeah, that's a bit puzzling. There's presumably a lot that could see relatively normal use with an adjustment in software.
 
donpiano

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
cw_sasuke said:
Two colleagues had no issues replacing their Joycons for free last year - launch Joycons out of warranty (Germany).

It might differ in some other EU countries though.
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Exactly, I replied to another user that they refused to repair mine in Spain. Just standard joy-con drift btw, nothing unusual. Hopefully they are forced to begin accepting these requests everywhere.
 
oni-link

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Hope said:
Iam shocked about the excuses in here.
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It's always surprising but there really is a defence force for everything

Sometimes I'll enter a thread and think "surely this time no one will defend this"

But every single time there are people going to bat for crappy things companies do
 
Palette Swap

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,217
Good, any pressure on this is a good thing.
I never use my switch on the go because of absolute shit joycons are.
 
Alanood

Alanood

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,559
This makes me happy even if it doesn't benefit me since I'm not from EU (or NA), I wasted money on buying new joycons and still angry about it.
 
Djalminha

Djalminha

Alt-Account
Banned
Sep 22, 2020
2,103
At least they should let us disconnect the sticks, many games don't need them, but Nintendo is refusing to help its users in any way unless they are forced by authorities.

This pisses me off because I have an Animal Crossing edition and when it breaks, even if I get a new joycon, it'll ruin what made my console special in the first place.

Also, the French consumer association looked into this and said in their opinion it was easy to fix. They added that Nintendo implemented other internal changes to the joycons over the years but refused to address this. I refuse to believe this can't be fixed; if that's the case, releasing the Lite console becomes unacceptable. When Microsoft run into the red ring of death, they had to redesign the whole console, but they did. Also, Nintendo addressing the issue through fixes in some places but not in others shows a lot about the way the company is thinking behind this issue.

Whether we like it or not, this has been beneficial for them as it's helped them sell a lot more joycons. With all the evidence, it's hard not to think bad in this situation; they are refusing the fix the problem, they are benefitting from the problem, they launched a new version of the console with the same problem where the problem no longer only affects the controllers but the whole system; this is a textbook example of programmed obsolescence and their attitude is disgusting. They should not be allowed to sell a product knowing it'll likely break fairly soon, period.
 
Menchi

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,143
UK
The only real solution is to be re-designed. The problem being that everyone before that, has a system that has a critical design flaw, that will inevitably result in replacement Joy-Cons. So Nintendo would need to commit to a long term replacement/repair plan for all owners of the previous version... or replace the system entirely with the new design (That would be the most consumer-friendly, and in my opinion, correct response, but I'm -quite certain- there are enough corporate apologists to tell me why Nintendo "couldn't possibly" do that)

Though the likely result of all this, will be a fine, and a mandate to commit to free repairs/replacements for 5 years from purchase.
 

Deleted member 51848

Jan 10, 2019
1,408
It's about time. Mine has just decided to go batshit. It makes Mario Maker 2 next to unplayable.
 
Symphony

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
Oregano said:
I never knew the 3DS Circle Pads to drift tbh, I always thought the issue was the cover shearing off(thanks Smash) so that's interesting.
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More like not centering correctly than drift, I actually had to return my first 3DS (Zelda edition one) because the stick itself was always stuck slightly off center at default position which was causing the same symptoms as drift does (character constantly moving slightly).
 
Iggelich

Iggelich

Member
Aug 31, 2019
288
Joycon drift is the worst thing about the Switch and an embarrassment for Nintendo. Come up with an adequate solution. This is a company that is well known for its creativity.
 
EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,031
I'm surprised people are complaining about a defence force when an overwhelming majority of this thread isn't defending drift at all, let alone this submission. Identifying the technical cause for the drift and potential solutions is not mutually exclusive with holding Nintendo accountable given the current circumstances. Nearly everybody seems to recognise this. There's a likely reason drift is occurring, it has been identified, and Nintendo still sold the product and now will be accountable for it in some form or another (probably a fine).

Rodrigues solitaire said:
The 'its because of the size' narrative sounds like some bullshit cooked up to excuse Nintendo's failure.
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It might be, but it also might be true. Smaller engineering profile of this technology has been correlated with similar issues in other devices. It probably is the cause.

But identifying the cause isn't the point. That's Nintendo's problem to deal with, now or in the future or whatever. The problem is selling the product with this known engineering and manufacturing deficiency, and in many countries failing to appropriately accommodate customers with free repairs. The reason for the fault isn't necessarily an excuse.
 

Deleted member 24097

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
704
I've said it already before.

The culprit is not Nintendo, it is Alps Alpine (aka ALPS), the supplier who makes the sticks for all major controllers.
Every controller that drifts, be it Joy-cons, NSW Pro, DS3, DS4, DS5, X360, X1 - every single one in the past few years, it's on them.
They are the single company that made all the analog sticks most players have ever touched.

Yet somehow, they manage to sneak under the radar.

Nintendo can't fix the joy-cons drift themselves. Best they can do is put pressure onto ALPS.

Unless ALPS fixes their stuff, this shit-show is going to keep going on and on until a new player comes into the picture - but I believe ALPS has a ton of patents.
 
Phendrana

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,063
Melbourne, Australia
I really hope Nintendo are fined hard for this, and forced to offer free repairs.

Time to beer up said:
Nintendo can't fix the joy-cons drift themselves. Best they can do is put pressure onto ALPS.

Unless ALPS fixes their stuff, this shit-show is going to keep going on and on until a new player comes into the picture - but I believe ALPS has a ton of patents
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There are no other providers of analogue sticks? Nintendo have been aware of this problem for years. They absolutely could have changed suppliers.
 
-shadow-

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
Nuclear Muffin said:
The fundamental problem is that they are trying to pack too much into too small a space. There is no technological solution available for this currently. The only "solution" is to make to Joycons bigger (which they can't do after the console has already been released; because it needs to fit into the current Switch model).

Put simply, Nintendo CAN'T fix this.

If they could've fixed it? They would've done so by now.

They will continue to ride this out until they release Switch 2 in 2023 (which will have larger & thicker detachable Joycons from the outset).
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This has nothing to do with the size of the controller, it's entirely down to how the designer went about the materials inside of the stick. It's a generic part using graphite, now this wouldn't be an issue if the protective layer on top of that couldn't be scratched off. The problem is that you can by simply using the sticks, the little metal pads simply rub the protective layer off and soon will rub away the graphite. The design is inherently flawed based on the materials, not on how much Nintendo crammed into the system.

I have a feeling Nintendo is simply stuck between a rock and a hard place. There's also the lawsuit in the US that's still pending. The current CEO had already mentioned the issue and if they admit that they messed up, that court case will be a simple open and shut case. This will make it an even worse situation for them and chances are that their only options are either sit this through till the end, or bite the bullet and admit the problem and fix it for free (which they're already doing in the US).

Anyone know what the situation is in Japan?
 
Beamerball

Beamerball

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,416
It truly is the worst controller Nintendo has made. Really hoping whatever Switch redesign is in the works includes a redesigned joycon.
 

Deleted member 45130

Banned
Jun 17, 2018
3,244
Philippo said:
My drifting is so bad I tried to use the JoyCon for the first time in months and it's now straight up not working.
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I said this in another thread but have you looked at how to replace the stick online? I bought a kit (including tools) and it was only £8. I'm no engineer and it probably took 30 minutes in total.

I understand that people shouldn't have to fix these problems themselves but outside of buying another set of Joy Cons there isn't an alternative. Oh and Nintendo can fuck off if they think I'm replacing them for £60 a go.
 
hanmik

hanmik

Editor/Writer at Popaco.dk
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,436
Time to beer up said:
I've said it already before.

The culprit is not Nintendo, it is Alps Alpine (aka ALPS), the supplier who makes the sticks for all major controllers.
Every controller that drifts, be it Joy-cons, NSW Pro, DS3, DS4, DS5, X360, X1 - every single one in the past few years, it's on them.
They are the single company that made all the analog sticks most players have ever touched.

Yet somehow, they manage to sneak under the radar.

Nintendo can't fix the joy-cons drift themselves. Best they can do is put pressure onto ALPS.

Unless ALPS fixes their stuff, this shit-show is going to keep going on and on until a new player comes into the picture - but I believe ALPS has a ton of patents.
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Nintendo is the culprit for US.. THE END USERS... it does not matter if Nintendo used a subsidiary company to produce some parts of their product.. we bought the end product, sold to us by Nintendo.. Nintendo is the company responsible for the Switch to the end consumer.
 
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