• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,796
Not sure what you people are complaining about. They are correct in their reasoning that due to the lore, women cannot be soldiers.
According to the same lore, Eastern Europe is quite the misogynistic place, so it makes sense lore-wise.

:)

(for context, I originally come from an Eastern European place)
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Not sure what you people are complaining about. They are correct in their reasoning that due to the lore, women cannot be soldiers.
According to the same lore, Eastern Europe is quite the misogynistic place, so it makes sense lore-wise.

:)

(for context, I originally come from an Eastern European place)
Wait, so you actually managed to escape from Tarkov?
 

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Business and target markets don't count as a good reason? We don't live in a communist utopia yet buddy. That's a primary factor. Imagine tailoring your game to a vocal minority who don't actually play their type of game much in the first place.

This is the price they pay for their game finally blowing up I guess.

People who acknowledge women exist don't play FPSs?
 

Teasing_Pink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
256
Not sure what you people are complaining about. They are correct in their reasoning that due to the lore, women cannot be soldiers.
According to the same lore, Eastern Europe is quite the misogynistic place, so it makes sense lore-wise.

:)

(for context, I originally come from an Eastern European place)
Does this "lore" of Eastern European misogyny surface elsewhere in the game? Is it a gripping tale with complex depictions of real world human rights and military action? Or is this really just a thinly veiled bs excuse for no women in a game that doesn't focus much at all on plot and world building?
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,796
Does this "lore" of Eastern European misogyny surface elsewhere in the game? Is it a gripping tale with complex depictions of real world human rights and military action? Or is this really just a thinly veiled bs excuse for no women in a game that doesn't focus much at all on world building?

It's a bullshit answer, that was my point. They could have much more easily said that they could explore player customisation in the future, and it is not in the plans for now due to limited budget. But coming up with this crap for an answer? :/
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
Does this "lore" of Eastern European misogyny surface elsewhere in the game? Is it a gripping tale with complex depictions of real world human rights and military action? Or is this really just a thinly veiled bs excuse for no women in a game that doesn't focus much at all on plot and world building?
Stop being racist against proud Slav traditions or I am gonna squat on you.

At least you can trust they don't have a great budget, otherwise they would pay somebody competent to run their PR for them.
 

Teasing_Pink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
256
It's a bullshit answer, that was my point. They could have much more easily said that they could explore player customisation in the future, and it is not in the plans for now due to limited budget. But coming up with this crap for an answer? :/
Ah, I must have misunderstood your post. I agree, ridiculous that this is the best response they could come up with.
 

Teasing_Pink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
256
Stop being racist against proud Slav traditions or I am gonna squat on you.

At least you can trust they don't have a great budget, otherwise they would pay somebody competent to run their PR for them.
That's a good point. They can now argue that they can't afford more player models, and point to their lack of a competent pr employee as proof. Maybe this is all just a 200iq play!
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,939
From checking reddit, the community is pretty garbage.

Congrats on having a take worse than the dev's.
I was still subbed to the subreddit by mistake, saw a post that was attacking a woman calling EFT's statement "gross" for saying she was transgender, NB, autistic, and had pronouns in her bio. Nothing but comments about how women don't actually play EFT, transphobia with deliberate use of incorrect pronouns, using autistic as an insult, "SJW" comments left and right, and upvoting the "I'm not like all the other entitled women teehee :)" women. The community LOVES BSG's decision for all the reasons we've seen before.

Business and target markets don't count as a good reason? We don't live in a communist utopia yet buddy. That's a primary factor. Imagine tailoring your game to a vocal minority who don't actually play their type of game much in the first place.

This is the price they pay for their game finally blowing up I guess.
You mean because the community is a steaming pile of dogshit that villainizes any women that aren't following their "bro code" and "aren't one of the bad women"? Hmm, it's almost like people don't stick around toxic communities full of people that literally hate women.
 
Last edited:

Luxorek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,162
Poland
This is such a weird take coming from a Russian studio. "Lore" reasons. There is probably no other nation on this planet that has so many distinguished female soldiers and all female military units as the former Soviet Union. From snipers to bomber pilots. They should be well aware of that. No excuses here, they're just bigots.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
ac unity was originally going to be a much more ambitious game that had you play as multiple characters throughout france's history, male and female.

that was cut for budget reasons, and all that remains of the different eras is the time travelling animus mini games.

the controversy came from the idea that you would be able to select your character in multiplayer, when in reality the different "characters" were just a face swap put on the main character to make sure it didnt feel like there were clones of you in each mission.

this multiplayer had horrible performance, compounding the already horrible performance of the actual game.

clearly there actually WERE much bigger problems to focus on than implementing character select, something that would have had obvious narrative implications. the fault lies mostly with the creative director for phrasing his response in a way that obscured the effort that HAD gone on behind the scenes to make a more diverse multi-protagonist narrative, versus simply swapping character models in a specific mode and calling it a day. however i also think people's refusal to listen to new information and re-evaluate that statement was also a big part of why it got out of hand.

AC has gone from being a focused singleplayer story to a messy choose your own adventure due to pressure from this controversy, and has unfortunately never gotten to do anything as interesting as the original premise for Unity, which would have diversified the playable characters in a narratively controlled and coherent way. Origins (while being my favorite entry in the series and benefiting very much from Aya's presence as a character) bears the ghost of an attempt to do the same character choice as Odyssey, which imo fully jumped the shark with contrived dialogue options that don't matter and a shallower rendering of each character due to the need for them to be interchangable.

AC should have focused on building each game's story around specific types of people from both genders versus going down the path of thinking they can cater to everyone at once without quality dropping.


Here, however:

escape from tarkov is basically a multiplayer roguelite. fuck em. just say adding women to the game is a low priority for you and go.
 

DharmaBum

Member
Sep 5, 2018
165
I'm going to integrate "lore" as an excuse in my daily life. Late for a deadline? Lore. Forgot my anniversary? Lore. I got drunk and crashed my car? Lore, officer.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
they can do what they want, but the animation excuse just kind of smells off to me, they are probably making a loooot of money, their game was topping twitch all holiday season... animating one character type is not undoable
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
I was still subbed to the subreddit by mistake, saw a post that was attacking a woman calling EFT's statement "gross" for saying she was transgender, NB, autistic, and had pronouns in her bio. Nothing but comments about how women don't actually play EFT, transphobia with deliberate use of incorrect pronouns, using autistic as an insult, "SJW" comments left and right, and upvoting the "I'm not like all the other entitled women teehee :)" women. The community LOVES BSG's decision for all the reasons we've seen before.

Yeah, that's the thread I read that showed me the community. As usual, a small amount of reasonable people, and then a bunch of posters that think "attack helicopter" is a funny joke.

Btw, getting traction: https://kotaku.com/escape-from-tarkov-developers-say-adding-playable-women-1840854949
 

svacina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,439
I'm going to integrate "lore" as an excuse in my daily life. Late for a deadline? Lore. Forgot my anniversary? Lore. I got drunk and crashed my car? Lore, officer.
So basically the "It was me, Barry!" meme, but with this guy?
qkxWV3q.png
 

take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,253
Placing their foot directly into their mouths. It takes talent to have your head up your ass at the same time.

 

Deleted member 3294

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,973
When people say "women are animated differently" i just think of this video


Which is also surprisingly a pretty good example of how bullshit that argument is, because Catwoman with a man's animations doesn't look weird at all.
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,800
US: PA
Wish people would stop citing lore as an excuse. May as well come out and say "We don't want to." Possibly the same amount of PR loss, but at least you would be honest.
 

xMaxie77

Member
Jun 12, 2018
15
it is an entirely new animation set across all actions. That isn't no work. Whether it's too much is up for debate, but their is additional work required.

Games set in war typically have characters in full fatigues, no? I don't think we need ass sway and boob physics here. Skin a male rig, it's the lowest hanging fruit.
 

dirtyjane

Member
Oct 27, 2017
839
Even tough im probably gonna catch some flak for it but why does this even matter? Inclusion is nice if it adds to the experience but this game is an shooter were you mostly wear full body armor. Is there even a story that would change if the protagonist is male/female?

Why should I even care who I play as?

But to clarify, this doesn't justify the attitude the devs showed the costumers regarding this issue.
 

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Even tough im probably gonna catch some flak for it but why does this even matter? Inclusion is nice if it adds to the experience but this game is an shooter were you mostly wear full body armor. Is there even a story that would change if the protagonist is male/female?

Why should I even care who I play as?

But to clarify, this doesn't justify the attitude the devs showed the costumers regarding this issue.

it would be nice if the group that makes up half the human population and faces ongoing discrimination and marginalisation had their existence acknowledged.
 

dirtyjane

Member
Oct 27, 2017
839
it would be nice if the group that makes up half the human population and faces ongoing discrimination and marginalisation had their existence acknowledged.
It's an shooter without any morality attached to it, story or choice wise right? Like I said, I'm all for inclusion and acceptance but why does it matter in this case? Does this game suffer in any meaningful way on a design perspective if it has more than the one predetermined gender option?

Am I, the Player, gain any difference in outcome if my playermodel has changed?
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,796
It's an shooter without any morality attached to it, story or choice wise right? Like I said, I'm all for inclusion and acceptance but why does it matter in this case? Does this game suffer in any meaningful way on a design perspective if it has more than the one predetermined gender option?

Am I, the Player, gain any difference in outcome if my playermodel has changed?

...
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
2,350
Your heart
Ok so why was it banned then?

Sorry, I just realised you said "banned for sale by some of the biggest retailers". Your use of the word banned threw me. With the introduction of the R18+ rating in Australia, I believe GTA V was the first game in the series not to be refused classification without changes, and as such the game was never banned.

Kmart and Target, which are owned by a single company, chose not to stock the game based on this petition which falsely claims that "this sickening game encourages players to commit sexual violence and kill women". A store choosing not to stock a product is not a ban.

A counter petition was created, but considering Australian consumers can purchase the game from any number of other stores, Target chose to give those behind the petition a win. It was supposed to "set an example to other stockists of GTA V". It didn't.