Okay? They still say the employee was not in a key position - likely only marketing, if he was at Gamescom - and was disciplined. There is no reason to keep dragging up 4 year old drama that they've already dealt with internally.
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Escape From Tarkov will not feature female playable characters for "lore reasons" and a lack of animations
- Thread starter LewieP
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Okay? They still say the employee was not in a key position - likely only marketing, if he was at Gamescom - and was disciplined. There is no reason to keep dragging up 4 year old drama that they've already dealt with internally.
That's fair. But earning the money I would give you was also a lot of work, so I'm not giving you any.
It's hard to imagine a scenario where the studio made a key decision to not include women, talked with the group about why, then this guy went to present the game and came up with the shit he said on his own about women and war. And Pavel was more than marketing---he was a developer.
It seems that the guy posting on reddit wasn't the one interviewed and it was someone else in the company hence saying he never said that.
It's still a pretty awful attitude.
It's an FPS. Do you really need to arbitrarily have a gender-specific animation of a gloved hand reloading a rifle or whatever? What exactly would be the disastrous consequences of male and female characters sharing a jump animation?
Yup, one dev said something regressive, the whole year's ruined for inclusivity.
This will be the last fuel to throw on the fire of why I won't be touching Tarkov. They don't respond to criticism well:
A second YouTuber was harassed with DMCA complaints by the Escape from Tarkov team
A second YouTuber was harassed with DMCA complaints by the Escape from Tarkov team
Still copying the animations from One model to the next while not breaking the model and adjusting it is still a bit of work and can take quite a bit of time if they are very small its not unreasonable to understand but it is not right that they had to be sexist about why just say limited budget but it can be something possible one day
Nah it's more the WWIII vibes that got me down.
This is just a condiment on the shit sandwich of a week that started this decade.
Here's a big EXCLUSIVE from the site regarding Lisa Su, CEO of AMD. She directly shut their article down for the misinformation that they were spreading. That's pretty slimy considering false information on corporate restructuring can literally affect the market if it isn't snuffed out immediately.
Those comments about women not being able to handle war is so fucking ass backwards it is embarrasing. Tell that to the Peshmerga.
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In regards to why they won't put them in, it would have been easier to just say "We don't have the resouces/budget to add new models/animations to the game so unfortunately they had to be left out". I am in no way defending these dicks, but yes there would be a need for new animations/mocap for females to make them look right (men walk top heavy, women from the hips). I am an animator/modeller on the side and I can tell you putting male animations on female characters is jarring. New skinning/rigging/weighting/models/normal maps/clothes would need to be made for characters so there is that. Devs need to just say "We can't do it because of budget" and fuck off with the other stuff.
In regards to why they won't put them in, it would have been easier to just say "We don't have the resouces/budget to add new models/animations to the game so unfortunately they had to be left out". I am in no way defending these dicks, but yes there would be a need for new animations/mocap for females to make them look right (men walk top heavy, women from the hips). I am an animator/modeller on the side and I can tell you putting male animations on female characters is jarring. New skinning/rigging/weighting/models/normal maps/clothes would need to be made for characters so there is that. Devs need to just say "We can't do it because of budget" and fuck off with the other stuff.
So replace one lie with another lie more palatable to you? It's clearly not a priority for them. Shame on them for that but from a transparency standpoint I would rather they just say "We have no plans for introducing female playable characters. End stop." I value honesty, even if not the "most appropriate response", over wishy-washy PR any day.
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Even "We don't have the budget" is a pretty weak answer, because it betrays the fact that male models/animations are a default requirement, but women are an optional extra.Those comments about women not being able to handle war is so fucking ass backwards it is embarrasing. Tell that to the Peshmerga.
In regards to why they won't put them in, it would have been easier to just say "We don't have the resouces/budget to add new models/animations to the game so unfortunately they had to be left out". I am in no way defending these dicks, but yes there would be a need for new animations/mocap for females to make them look right (men walk top heavy, women from the hips). I am an animator/modeller on the side and I can tell you putting male animations on female characters is jarring. New skinning/rigging/weighting/models/normal maps/clothes would need to be made for characters so there is that. Devs need to just say "We can't do it because of budget" and fuck off with the other stuff.
But yeah it would be better than what they actually said.
Well ideally it would also be true rather than a lie. If budget were the main reason (which I doubt but let's run with it), and the game is a massive financial success, the budget reason would no longer apply.
What's interesting is that the other articles they list to back up their story were all sourced and accurate. This to me doesn't prove unreliability unless there is more evidence of such. Lots of sites get it wrong every now and then.
I will say that WCCFtech has an absolutely horrible reputation. Just click any average article, they aren't even edited for spelling or grammar.
Every now and then...
More now, less then.
So, yeah. I'd prefer a better source, still this an interview, something a bit different to reporting the news.
You're going to make me find more stuff? OK.
Just as a side note I'm not defending these devs. But wccftech needs to stop being used as a reliable source.
I get 1-2 weeks per base model 3 days per clothing set for game/film models on average and in some cases I work from home to make up for lost time. Make one base model plus about 15 heads, clothing and such and the price adds up. Cost is always a factor. Publishers will cut budgets if there are delays, or ask you to work for free if you don't meet the budget. Ever worked 9 weeks 12 hours a day on a game project for only $1,177US because that's all the producer could afford for their project? Money is everything in film and games.
1 game with an incredibly small team with 300k some playerbase is a bad look for 2020 alright.
As for animations, it depends if you want copy/paste because literally everything you do in this game has different animations. Every food, drink, healing item, reloading everything has specific animations. I won't excuse it if the actual head of the game said it but i won't overlook the fact they do have a very small budget, very small team and a very small player base.
Totally understand, and I'm not defending wccftech. I think it's important to make the case that this site is unreliable so that rather than have a one off comment saying they aren't reliable, you can present Era administration evidence they are not.
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But apparently doing all that stuff for male characters has zero costs associated with it?
Throw away comment about my PERSONAL pessimism sure has tickled some of you lol
No no no that is not what I am saying at all. Please don't strawman this.
Every model costs regardless.
I did a quick google and found tonnes of people talking about how they're a bullshit rumour mill.
They've been banned from this sub on Reddit, for instance.
I am sorry, who are you again? Why are you policing this thread lol
I'll go about doing it this way instead of murking up this thread with my disdain for them.
They're also banned on r/AMD, r/PCGaming, and r/Nvidia.
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Certainly seems like a weird coincidence that they had exactly the budget for including playable men, but not enough budget for including playable women. I wonder why they prioritised playable men!
(checks post history)
That sure seems to not stop you, so why not?
That's up to them. Maybe it was on the cards? I don't know, I don't work for the studio or publisher.
If you make 10 male and 10 female models, the cost is roughly the same.
7 men 3 females. Same
9 females 1 man. Same.
Now, if you're given 20 weeks at 1 week per model because that's all the budget allows. They could have made 10M/10F. Suddenly the project gets less money and the director changes his mind and says they've only got 8 weeks and only 3 male models are done. Guess they're going to have to just get the rest done as male and vice/versa.
Once again I am not defending these assholes at all, just saying hypotheticals that have happened to me in the past.
Well. I know it takes time to remodel armor, make new animations, and whatnot., but isn't this something that should have been budgeted for accordingly from he onset of the game?
I mean I look at fighting games or MOBAS that have a diverse cast of characters with unique animations and armor and clothing sets and find statements like this hard to believe. Especially when it comes to fighting games and their limited budgets. How can a game tat rakes in money not have the capital to allow for variety? Are there top level executives giving themselves bonuses so fat that they can't distribute their gains to allow for a female model with a limited animation set and a few pieces of armor. I mean you don't need to make goddamn boob armor.
I'm in the Marine Corps and females use the same flak and kevlars as everyone else.
So what I'm getting at is... What are they talking about?
I mean I look at fighting games or MOBAS that have a diverse cast of characters with unique animations and armor and clothing sets and find statements like this hard to believe. Especially when it comes to fighting games and their limited budgets. How can a game tat rakes in money not have the capital to allow for variety? Are there top level executives giving themselves bonuses so fat that they can't distribute their gains to allow for a female model with a limited animation set and a few pieces of armor. I mean you don't need to make goddamn boob armor.
I'm in the Marine Corps and females use the same flak and kevlars as everyone else.
So what I'm getting at is... What are they talking about?
So they went from "we never said that" to "that was just one minor team member's opinion" to "we reprimanded that guy" (as stated in one of the tweet replies above). Sounds like they definitely said it and are surprised people took issue with it.
Not speaking for someone else, but she elaborates in some more tweets.
If you have a non moronic workflow it's not that hard. Especially if it's a game under development and not being retrofitted after the fact. If you have the original assets, deforming to fit the female model is relatively easy
The FFXIV issue was with a boosted ass item and a decade of legacy gear. And it's fixed.
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Okay. I'm against wccftech being used as a reliable source. I'm not defending that asshole.
oh yeah, I remember that
The devs also have lot of other minor scummy practices documented that put the company in an overall poor light
"We came to the conclusion that women can't handle that amount of stress. There's only place for hardened men in this place"
Sorry, I wasn't trying to call you out or anything. I quoted you while trying/failing to quote that reddit screenshot.
I agree it was something they could have budgeted or worked out from the start, but I guess they didn't. They are being shitbags about it.
In regards to using the same models/clothers/props it isn't always as easy as that. Models need to be re-wrapped per-object, realigned, re-weighted, re-baked from one model to the next so it animates correctly. Shapes and body scale change from person to person so a lot of models need to be redone to scale/fit correctly, even on similar or same clothing/objects. You can get a similar/same model object and re-wrap it to a new model, but it needs to work correctly. There are a lot of things going on that most people who have never done modelling/CG don't understand about it.