Era help me out ! Xenoblade Chronicles 2 or Final Fantasy XII (Switch)

.exe · Mar 3, 2020

To add some more about FF12 as I've been thinking about it anyway while playing the game over the past weeks: even though Viera and Fran usually catch heat in talks about FF12, I personally found Ashe's design a bigger flaw than anything else. She's well-developed, passes the Mako Mori test and is generally a surprisingly multi-dimensional character for the type of game she's in, but the way her model is designed seems to clash with almost every possible aspect of her character/identity as she's presented in the narrative. It's really disappointing. The Viera are borrowed from a tired trope but Ashe had no reason to look the way she did. Folks also often point and laugh at Vaan, but he does not look out of place in Rabanastre. It's at least consistent with the setting. Ashe, meanwhile, does not fit in any of the of the contexts, cultural or societal, that she's supposed to hang in.

Jarmel · Mar 3, 2020

Redcrayon said:
Is it? Xenoblade 2 has cut scenes where the party pervert is 'upgrading' a child character that is also their maid to have bigger tits, with the model number relating to their age as a schoolgirl in Japan. Nothing FFXII does can compare to that, so I find hostility in defence of the quality of a Xenoblade 2 cut scene comparison to be unnecessary.

That scene and the previously mentioned cutscene isn't representative of the game as a whole and certainly not the more dramatic moments in Xenoblade 2. The point can be made about the difference in tone without contrasting Z-tier side content in one compared to a major cutscene in the other.

Bansai · Mar 3, 2020

JuanLatino said:
Hey Era
So my friend is gonna borrow me his Switch for a few months and i'm in the mood for a JRPG.

i never got play Final Fantasy XII and Xenoblade seems like to be the tentpole JRPG Franchise on Nintendo.
So i am probably gonna pick a title between these two

im looking for a decent/solid Story that keeps me engaged troughout the game (story is key for me, which is why i stopped playing Zelda BOTW back then when i had my own switch)
I like grinding to make my character(s) powerful which is why the combat/gameplay shouldn't be subpar
artstyle over graphics - beautiful landscapes - towns and maybe not too many fetch quests (tough i guess that's something i have to accept in a JRPG)

All your points scream Xenoblade 2 to me. Except for the fetch quests part, but that's in both games.

Redcrayon · Mar 3, 2020

Jarmel said:
That scene and the previously mentioned cutscene isn't representative of the game as a whole and certainly not the more dramatic moments in Xenoblade 2. The point can be made about the difference in tone without contrasting Z-tier side content in one compared to a major cutscene in the other.

It can also be made without calling people a 'fucking prick' for pointing out the Z-tier content of a game that wears it's nature on it's sleeve.

Hentailover · Mar 3, 2020

Play FF12.

XB2 has some issues:
It has some super serious anime-itus, to the point that sometimes it's too much even for me, and I have an anime avatar and am a fan of Tales series.
Combat is weird and it's a 50/50 if you enjoy it or find it a clunky mess.

FF12 on other hand is one of my favorite ff games. #notbiaseatall

Vincent Grayson · Mar 3, 2020

Both are games worth playing. But FFXII is my favorite game, period...so I'd recommend it first.

Jarmel · Mar 3, 2020

Redcrayon said:
It can also be made without calling people a 'fucking prick' for pointing out the Z-tier content of a game that wears it's nature on it's sleeve.

The poster wasn't exactly arguing in good faith was he?

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

FF12 has some great writing because it's themed after Ivalice but can be kinda boring to play in my opinion.

Xenoblade 2 is a shonen anime taken game form, warts and all. I think both do a lot of things extremely well but on this forum you'll continue to see/hear backlash about XB2 regardless, so asking to compare anything to it was already a losing battle for it.

Even in this thread with the comparison scenes someone posted they chose a bad sidequest scene versus a main story scene in FFXII, so it doesn't matter what the real reasoning is, people will always talk down to XB2.

Redcrayon · Mar 3, 2020

Jarmel said:
The poster wasn't exactly arguing in good faith was he?

This is over a comparison of videos about computer games. It doesn't warrant that level of hostility even if you think a point is unfair, that's what discussion or the ignore button is for, but even then frankly Xenoblade 2 isn't worth defending on the topic. It's pretty clear who it's aimed at, there are main story scenes in XB2 that are so much worse than anything in FFXII, as I mentioned above.

Shizuka · Mar 3, 2020

Final Fantasy XII, definitely.

grand · Mar 3, 2020

Xenoblade wouldn't exist without FF12

Opa-Opa · Mar 3, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
FF12 has some great writing because it's themed after Ivalice but can be kinda boring to play in my opinion.

Xenoblade 2 is a shonen anime taken game form, warts and all. I think both do a lot of things extremely well but on this forum you'll continue to see/hear backlash about XB2 regardless, so asking to compare anything to it was already a losing battle for it.

Even in this thread with the comparison scenes someone posted they chose a bad sidequest scene versus a main story scene in FFXII, so it doesn't matter what the real reasoning is, people will always talk down to XB2.

Exactly, imo.

Sometimes XB2 can be kinda Otaku, but what this really boils to is how much I thought FF12 was such a slog to play.
XB2 is energetic, funny, emotional and colorful - it wants to get emotions out of you, maybe including those that people are complaining. It actually tries to punch you in the stomach.

FF just doesn't do any o this, it's giant, epic, well-made and eh, that's it.

HBK · Mar 3, 2020

JuanLatino said:
Hey Era
So my friend is gonna borrow me his Switch for a few months and i'm in the mood for a JRPG.

i never got play Final Fantasy XII and Xenoblade seems like to be the tentpole JRPG Franchise on Nintendo.
So i am probably gonna pick a title between these two

im looking for a decent/solid Story that keeps me engaged troughout the game (story is key for me, which is why i stopped playing Zelda BOTW back then when i had my own switch)
I like grinding to make my character(s) powerful which is why the combat/gameplay shouldn't be subpar
artstyle over graphics - beautiful landscapes - towns and maybe not too many fetch quests (tough i guess that's something i have to accept in a JRPG)

FF12 is the better game by far.

Both have crap stories though 🤷‍♀️

Batatina · Mar 3, 2020

For me it's Xenoblade, loved that game.

garion333 · Mar 3, 2020

I have major issues with XC2 but it's a vastly more interesting game than FFXII and I'm even a fan of XII.

Aleh · Mar 3, 2020

Tora always gets made fun of or downright attacked by the other characters when he does something pervy, I still don't know why people are so hostile to it. His behavior isn't normalized

Zen · Mar 3, 2020

FFXII absolutely is an immersive and good story in spite of the well known development issues with SE at the time and a couple points where the gameplay stretches on. XB2 is a fantastic game with MEH MEH MEH dialogue and cutscenes that made me cringe more than a few times. Pyra's character design clashes with her personality even more than Ashe's.

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

Opa-Opa said:
Exactly, imo.

Sometimes XB2 can be kinda Otaku, but what this really boils to is how much I thought FF12 was such a slog to play.
XB2 is energetic, funny, emotional and colorful - it wants to get emotions out of you, maybe including those that people are complaining. It actually tries to punch you in the stomach.

FF just doesn't do any o this, it's giant, epic, well-made and eh, that's it.

FF12 has some of my favorite "style" of dialogue on the planet. That old proper english tone is my jam, and I love it for emulating the Tactics style in modern day graphics and it's why I like FFXIV so much because it replicates similar speech patterns. It also has some great cutscene direction.

XB2 has some of the most over the top dynamic fights in the series, starting strong (depsite Rex's English VA's bad yell) with the fight with Pyra and Malos where they go full ham a few hours into the game (if not in the first hour). I also find XB2's fight system way more enjoyable, but FF12 is not without its merits with the gambit system and the like and the job system now that on Switch it's so free and not nearly so locked in and limiting as it was before.

There's plenty of merits to both, but I think if I were to pick one it'd be XB2 because between the base game and the DLC you're getting a huge amount of content in terms of gameplay, and you don't have to deal with the drab overworlds of 12 and such. I think FF12 has more merit than some are giving it, but I understand completely the complaints about it at times.

Aleh said:
Tora always gets made fun of or downright attacked by the other characters when he does something pervy, I still don't know why people are so hostile to it. His behavior isn't normalized

Just give it time. Someone will post the Blushy Crushy scene again and won't care that there's other scenes in the game :P

Pooroomoo · Mar 3, 2020

HeRinger said:
Xenoblade 2.

FFXII is GREAT, but Xenoblade 2 has better story, better combat and better landscapes, which are the things you prize the most.

You forgot XB2's music. I still find myself humming some of the themes from time to time.'

Aleh · Mar 3, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
Just give it time. Someone will post the Blushy Crushy scene again and won't care that there's other scenes in the game :P

And even in that scene Nia is there to criticize him lol

Asbsand · Mar 3, 2020

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 if you wanna be immersed in a good story. That said I think XII probably is a more playable game. But THAT being said it can't top the diversity of tone and location that Xenoblade Chronicles 2 has.

XC2 feels like a music album that you play from start to finish. It's the complete package. XII is more experimental with the FF formula and its story fell on deaf ears for a lot of people.

Mr.Fletcher · Mar 3, 2020

Aleh said:
Tora always gets made fun of or downright attacked by the other characters when he does something pervy, I still don't know why people are so hostile to it. His behavior isn't normalized

I feel like you could probably remove Tora from every cutscene post chapter four and you wouldn't notice.

His role in the overall story is small and the issues regularly raised surrounding his character are probably evident in a handful of interactions across 14 hours of cutscenes.

People bring up his maid fetish, but it's referenced in one cutscene in chapter two - a gag that gets discarded in about 10 seconds - and the back end of chapter four.

And as you say, when he does go too far - more so in side content, which even then I'd argue isn't particularly frequent - he is criticised for it.

I'm not trying to play down any issues people have with him, but I think his prominence and the prominence of those elements people dislike, are greatly over exaggerated.

I also think you've got to take into account the tone of the game and what it's trying to convey with these scenes.

People like to bring up the giant robot maid at the end of chapter 4 to criticise the game - but it's so over the top, silly and obviously extreme, it's hard not to crack a smile.

I generally don't watch anime. I'm nearly 30 and work as a journalist covering stories involving murder, rape and abuse. I say this because I think people talk about Xenoblade 2, like you've got to have some kind of tolerance for the tropes it employs and be young and immature.

But I'm neither of these things and I loved it. Obviously everyone will be different, but I think Xenoblade 2, when all is said and done, has a lot of heart and I appreciate that.

Deleted member 14377 · Mar 3, 2020

XC2 is ny favorite game of all time and I've been gaming for 28 years. However, it dethroned Chrono Cross, take that as a testament to my taste.

.exe · Mar 3, 2020

I really appreciate how relatively reserved the central story of FF12 is. It's not bombastic and it doesn't try to get a rise out of the player at every turn with emotional plays. The moments when it does evoke explicit drama work because you're not desensitized to it yet. You don't have characters whispering each other's names in sad way every other sentence, tearfully delivering their lines to make sure we know they're upset or explaining their absurd motivations as they're yelling and fighting. Filler dialog doesn't bog down the game endlessly.

Balthier's development encapsulates the philosophy of the game pretty well, I found. He's set up as your usual rogue but he's not an edgelord about it and avoids the tsundere trope. We don't learn his history until late in the game, and when we do it isn't delivered in some melodramatic but vaguely inspiring speech. He's pensive, doubtful about the future and the people he's entrusted. He also only tells the one character it matters to and only to contextualize his concerns. Vaan matures even though he's mainly there as a stand-in for the player, Basch is ever the tormented and noble knight but it never feels too angsty, and you can feel for the burden that Ashe has to carry in trying to maneuver a political minefield where everyone wants to make her their pawn. Even side characters like Vossler and Gabranth added weight to the plot and the texture of the world at times you didn't expect it.

I was taken aback somewhat by how well-handled a lot of the writing in this is, and how the performances actually felt like the actors knew who they were talking to, in what context and why they sound the way they do. It's not winning any prizes in literature, but it does what it sets out to do well and without the usual pomp and cheesiness that a lot of other games in the genre turn to. More broadly, Ivalice feels like a place that is bigger than what you get to see and has a history that's more complex than the parts you know about. Sometimes the game paints events in broad strokes, but there's always a certain texture to it that implies more and it tends to work.

Deleted member 45468 · Mar 3, 2020

XC2 is unplayable in handheld. Remains the only game I quit in my life due to performance.

I suggest you wait for the superior XC:DE that is releasing this year.

tyfon · Mar 3, 2020

Personally I think Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is the best game on the Switch. I have only played FF12 on the PS4 though so I can't speak for the switch port.
But story- and combatwise I think XC2 is superior.

Zen · Mar 3, 2020

XII would place above the meatier portion of popular literature today if it were a book. XC2 is an anime

AFI-kun · Mar 3, 2020

Xenoblade 2 is actually my favorite JRPG on the Switch so far largely because it feels like an evolution of the FFXII which I loved a lot.

To someone who hasnt played FFXII though, I'd say go with whichever you think looks better. I *love* FFXII's setting (Ivalice is my all-time fave RPG world) and its take on the FF mythos. Xenoblade admittedly is further in the anime camp so your feelings regarding that aesthetic matter a lot.

I'd say any of them is a good first choice, if you like what you see then pick up the other one. Personally I'd recommend Xenoblade simply because its gameplay design is a bit more modern (though FFXII was waaaay ahead of its time).

noyram23 · Mar 3, 2020

Anything but Xenoblade Chronicles 2, such a disappointing sequel

Deleted member 33533 · Mar 3, 2020

OP kind of made a decision already but I don't think people have noticed lol

Transistor said:
At no point in XII does anyone have an underage looking sex doll they got from their uncle, either

Redcrayon said:
Is it? Xenoblade 2 has cut scenes where the party pervert is 'upgrading' a child character that is also their maid to have bigger tits, with the model number relating to their age as a schoolgirl in Japan. Nothing FFXII does can compare to that, so I find hostility in defence of the quality of a Xenoblade 2 cut scene comparison to be unnecessary.

If you had shown me these posts 3-4 years ago and told me they were describing things from the next Xenoblade game, I would not have believed you.

Aleh said:
Tora always gets made fun of or downright attacked by the other characters when he does something pervy, I still don't know why people are so hostile to it. His behavior isn't normalized

So if Tora is a pervert that even the other characters shut down for being that way, why exactly should we like him as a character then? The game doesn't need to say Tora's behavior is ok for it not to be a dumb and annoying presence in the game. Even if it doesn't normalize it, we still have a schoolgirl robot maid with big bouncy tits in your party. Like why is it even there? For a joke? It's not even a funny one. It's just the tired old anime trope of a perverted character who gets beat up by the girls for perving on them or looked down on for a good laugh and then everyone moves on as if it didn't happen.

Redcrayon · Mar 3, 2020

SuperiorTrashTalk said:
OP kind of made a decision already but I don't think people have noticed lol

If you had shown me these posts 3-4 years ago and told me they were describing things from the next Xenoblade game, I would not have believed you.

So if Tora is a pervert that even the other characters shut down for being that way, why exactly should we like him as a character then? The game doesn't need to say Tora's behavior is ok for it not to be a dumb and annoying presence in the game. Even if it doesn't normalize it, we still have a schoolgirl robot maid with big bouncy tits in your party. Like why is it even there? For a joke? It's not even a funny one. It's just the tired old anime trope of a perverted character who gets beat up by the girls for perving on them or looked down on for a good laugh and then everyone moves on as if it didn't happen.

The party pervert taking a beating doesn't even work as a defence of this stuff- it's the 'have your cake and eat it' strategy. Where they can have objectified characters throughout the game, but as long as a character gets told how wrong it is, that then seems to make it fine for the game's camera and marketing to otherwise revel in it and sell that objectification to its otaku audience with a wink.

Tpallidum · Mar 3, 2020

Playing through ff12 zodiac age and I'm having an absolute blast. The level of control you have over the automation of your party is fucking awesome. Gambits are really fun to tweak. I was not expecting that at all. Also the addition of 2x and 4x speed is a godsend.

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

EDIT: Since I've already got quote replied it didn't makes sense to leave my original post blank.

Keep in mind that for all cutscenes minus like 2 and one scene at the end of Chapter 4 that Poppi Alpha is the one in every cutscene and every big story beat, the "big booby maid" (who's like...not huge and bouncy but okay) only comes into play once and QTPi the final form is only in one like 2 Heart to Hearts.

The entire thing with Tora is that he's an Otaku fanboy personified as a furball, which is exemplified by the fact that his robot starts out as anime trope 1: Astro Boy but girl, 2: Maid Girl, 3: Kos-Mos wannabe. Even his weapon at the end is a makeshift wannabe-Monado esque weapon. You can say you don't like it or it's cringe which is fine but they were intentionally designed to be reflections of an anime fanboy "growing up" over time and/or developing new tastes.

Even if you use the "schoolgirl age" that other people are offended about it makes sense because the robot shell is "aging" as it shifts forms with different operating systems and personalities. Tora has issues but people act like he's going around groping everyone and talking about women only being there for men, when his biggest crime is literally just being so much of a weeb that he built his own anime girl.

Threads about Xenoblade 2 are exhausting on this forum.

Blackjaw · Mar 3, 2020

Did they ever patch the Grandia games...that's my choice if you want an rpg (if they are fixed)

DragonKeeper · Mar 3, 2020

"Tora is always criticized or shut down for his pervyness so the game isn't normalizing that behavior". Bullshit. The game shoves T @ A in your face whenever it has the chance and offers up a child maid sexbot to the player. Tora never actually suffers any negative consequences for his behavior. The funny harmless perv who gets punched for laughs with a smile and a wink to the audience is not actual criticism of the behavior. It's just a thin smokescreen so a pervy game can have it both ways.

Cabal · Mar 3, 2020

I played through FFXII on Switch last year. I love the game, had not played through it since PS2 days. It's a great game and runs exceptionally well. Xenoblade 2 I own and never made it through. It was ok, but didn't hold my attention. Personally I like FFXII better. If you haven't played Dragon Quest XI, it's quite good as well.

DisturbedSwan · Mar 3, 2020

I've never played FFXII but Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is one of my favourite games of all time.

Deleted member 33533 · Mar 3, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
Keep in mind that for all cutscenes minus like 2 and one scene at the end of Chapter 4 that Poppi Alpha is the one in every cutscene and every big story beat, the "big booby maid" (who's like...not huge and bouncy but okay) only comes into play once and QTPi the final form is only in one like 2 Heart to Hearts.

The entire thing with Tora is that he's an Otaku fanboy personified as a furball, which is exemplified by the fact that his robot starts out as anime trope 1: Astro Boy but girl, 2: Maid Girl, 3: Kos-Mos wannabe. Even his weapon at the end is a makeshift wannabe-Monado esque weapon. You can say you don't like it or it's cringe which is fine but they were intentionally designed to be reflections of an anime fanboy "growing up" over time and/or developing new tastes.

Even if you use the "schoolgirl age" that other people are offended about it makes sense because the robot shell is "aging" as it shifts forms with different operating systems and personalities. Tora has issues but people act like he's going around groping everyone and talking about women only being there for men, when his biggest crime is literally just being so much of a weeb that he built his own anime girl.

Threads about Xenoblade 2 are exhausting on this forum.

I remember that maid form being the big climax to Tora and Poppi's story arc in that chapter. There was a lot built up to it just being this maid bot transformation with a panty shot which just kind of amplified everything in my opinion. It was like this long, drawn out joke that wasn't funny but instead embarrassing to watch. It more has to do with the emphasis they placed on it and it's not as if that's the only instance of something like this in the game. As for the bouncing boobs, I distinctly remember using Poppi QT in the following boss fight and her boobs bouncing every time I did her blade combo and the camera would focus on her. Why Poppi, a metal robot even has boob physics is beyond me.

I get the whole aging theme of Poppi which is actually pretty cool. The problem is, that when you mix that up with Poppi being this weird sexual fetish thing for Tora it really colors the whole thing differently. Regular Poppi is supposed to be a child, QTPi an adult and QT a teenager. The fact that QT is the most fetishistic of the 3 is what bothers me. I just don't look for these kind of things in Xenoblade. And before you say it, yes, Xenoblade has always had fanservice but it's never been to this extent. I don't have a problem with fanservice on principle but I think the level of otaku-bait the series took to with 2 was beyond my limit for what I want for this series. Never did I say Tatsu was groping women but I don't see why we needed an otaku fanboy with a maid fetish as a party member at all. I kicked him out of the party as soon as I had the chance.

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

SuperiorTrashTalk said:
I remember that maid form being the big climax to Tora and Poppi's story arc in that chapter. There was a lot built up to it just being this maid bot transformation with a panty shot which just kind of amplified everything in my opinion. It was like this long, drawn out joke that wasn't funny but instead embarrassing to watch. It more has to do with the emphasis they placed on it and it's not as if that's the only instance of something like this in the game. As for the bouncing boobs, I distinctly remember using Poppi QT in the following boss fight and her boobs bouncing every time I did her blade combo and the camera would focus on her. Why Poppi, a metal robot even has boob physics is beyond me.

I get the whole aging theme of Poppi which is actually pretty cool. The problem is, that when you mix that up with Poppi being this weird sexual fetish thing for Tora it really colors the whole thing differently. Regular Poppi is supposed to be a child, QTPi an adult and QT a teenager. The fact that QT is the most fetishistic of the 3 is what bothers me. I just don't look for these kind of things in Xenoblade. And before you say it, yes, Xenoblade has always had fanservice but it's never been to this extent. I don't have a problem with fanservice on principle but I think the level of otaku-bait the series took to with 2 was beyond my limit for what I want for this series. Never did I say Tatsu was groping women but I don't see why we needed an otaku fanboy with a maid fetish as a party member at all. I kicked him out of the party as soon as I had the chance.

I had to rewatch that scene 3 times just now to find the "panty" shot you were referring to and all I could come up with was this tiny frame of an instance:

It's not like it's like shoving a camera up her skirt or something. The whole of Chapter 4 including the boss fight theme was an homage to mecha anime, so the whole framing was pretty intentional.

In regards to her being a "sex bot" I just think taking the comparison of "He built his own anime girl" to instantly being "She's a walking blow up doll" extremely reductive and counter to her character arc in the game, but to each their own.

Literally anyone who went to conventions at the age I did saw a multitude of teenagers and weebs who wanted to work at maid cafes and the maid thing is so common that my mind doesn't instantly go to "sex" when I think of it so much as just a type of costume. I guess even though a maid fetish can be a thing I don't instantly jump off the deep end with sexual implications when someone wears an outfit. But that's just me.

And we didn't "need" Tora to be how he was, but that's what they wrote. And we don't "need" half the shit people put in games and stories but they're there. I could go on for days about what we don't "need" in modern Scifi/Star wars but no one would care. What's there is there.

Again you and others interchangeably use costumes and cosplay and other things with fetish and sex, and even if someone likes maid outfits or cosplay doesn't automatically mean he's a sexual deviant. I feel like with the "panty shot" people are looking way more into it than the casual viewer is.

unholyFarmer · Mar 3, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
FF12 has some great writing because it's themed after Ivalice but can be kinda boring to play in my opinion.

Xenoblade 2 is a shonen anime taken game form, warts and all. I think both do a lot of things extremely well but on this forum you'll continue to see/hear backlash about XB2 regardless, so asking to compare anything to it was already a losing battle for it.

Even in this thread with the comparison scenes someone posted they chose a bad sidequest scene versus a main story scene in FFXII, so it doesn't matter what the real reasoning is, people will always talk down to XB2.

Good and reasonable post. Yeah, people arguing in favor of XBC2 always have a bad time around here (game downplayed for a few problematic scenes, ad hominem arguments etc).

I feel like OP was mislead since he emphasized the engaging story aspect. FFXII has an amazing world, terrific writing and translation, some great characters, a mmorpg-lite system that many find very enjoyable.. but the story is poorly paced and I didn't find it engaging.

WestEgg · Mar 3, 2020

unholyFarmer said:
Good and reasonable post. Yeah, people arguing in favor of XBC2 always have a bad time around here (game downplayed for a few problematic scenes, ad hominem arguments etc).

Which is funny because even on here the game did extremely well on both the quintessential RPGs voting thread and the 2017 Game of the year voting.

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

unholyFarmer said:
Good and reasonable post. Yeah, people arguing in favor of XBC2 always have a bad time around here (game downplayed for a few problematic scenes, ad hominem arguments etc).

I feel like OP was mislead since he emphasized the engaging story aspect. FFXII has an amazing world, terrific writing and translation, some great characters, a mmorpg-lite system that many find very enjoyable.. but the story is poorly paced and I didn't find it engaging.

I mean that's not to say there aren't some cringey ass things in XB2, but I've never seen something so silly as a shonen anime exemplified into being a scapegoat and embodiment of "Everything that is wrong" with anime/jrpgs. the amount of disdain some people have and internalized feelings on things that either aren't there or are exaggerated is staggering sometimes.

WestEgg said:
Which is funny because even on here the game did extremely well on both the quintessential RPGs voting thread and the 2017 Game of the year voting.

It's because most people at this point usually keep quiet about the game when it comes up, but my dumb ass keeps taking the bait haha.

DragonKeeper · Mar 3, 2020

daxy said:
To add some more about FF12 as I've been thinking about it anyway while playing the game over the past weeks: even though Viera and Fran usually catch heat in talks about FF12, I personally found Ashe's design a bigger flaw than anything else. She's well-developed, passes the Mako Mori test and is generally a surprisingly multi-dimensional character for the type of game she's in, but the way her model is designed seems to clash with almost every possible aspect of her character/identity as she's presented in the narrative. It's really disappointing. The Viera are borrowed from a tired trope but Ashe had no reason to look the way she did. Folks also often point and laugh at Vaan, but he does not look out of place in Rabanastre. It's at least consistent with the setting. Ashe, meanwhile, does not fit in any of the of the contexts, cultural or societal, that she's supposed to hang in.

Welcome to female character design where the priority is sexy legs. butts, and busts instead of cohesion between the visual and narrative design aspects.

Dark Knight · Mar 3, 2020

Jaded Alyx said:
That was my experience as well back in the day, though I don't know if I'd appreciate it more now.

I just remember realising that I actually didn't care about either the story or the characters, and I stopped playing.

I have played the first 1/3 of 12 recently and really liked the story so far, at least compared to how I remember it as a kid.

elyetis · Mar 3, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
It's because most people at this point usually keep quiet about the game when it comes up, but my dumb ass keeps taking the bait haha.

Yeah a vote is a quick thing you don't have to argue over. Actually posting in a topic which you know will almost always devolve into the same specific subject, like it already did months before the game release, and still does 2 years later, is probably perceived as an exercise of futility by many, it does for me.

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

elyetis said:
Yeah a vote is a quick thing you don't have to argue over. Actually posting in a topic which you know will almost always devolve into the same specific subject, like it already did months before the game release, and still does 2 years later, is probably perceived as an exercise of futility by many, it does for me.

I have my own complaints about the game, but with story telling and stuff I guess I just gave up complaining about character designs in anime games a long time ago, because I'd still rather take the obnoxious dumpster fire that is Rex's design over "generic mocap actor" in other games any day lol.

I just don't think Xenoblade is the end all be all reason for all sexualization and problems in the world, and I think the amount of heat it gets is obnoxiously overblown.

Dark Knight said:
I have played the first 1/3 of 12 recently and really liked the story so far, at least compared to how I remember it as a kid.

I was one of those kids who shit on 12 when I was younger because I loved 7 and 9 so much, now that I'm all on that ivalice koolaid and how that dialogue is written it doesn't even bother me that most of it is just star wars reskinned. It's all in the execution. Even Vaan I don't want to stab through the tv as much anymore. Just the overworld is still really...blah outside of the cities.

Deleted member 33533 · Mar 3, 2020

Bit_Reactor said:
I had to rewatch that scene 3 times just now to find the "panty" shot you were referring to and all I could come up with was this tiny frame of an instance:

It's not like it's like shoving a camera up her skirt or something. The whole of Chapter 4 including the boss fight theme was an homage to mecha anime, so the whole framing was pretty intentional.

In regards to her being a "sex bot" I just think taking the comparison of "He built his own anime girl" to instantly being "She's a walking blow up doll" extremely reductive and counter to her character arc in the game, but to each their own.

Literally anyone who went to conventions at the age I did saw a multitude of teenagers and weebs who wanted to work at maid cafes and the maid thing is so common that my mind doesn't instantly go to "sex" when I think of it so much as just a type of costume. I guess even though a maid fetish can be a thing I don't instantly jump off the deep end with sexual implications when someone wears an outfit. But that's just me.

And we didn't "need" Tora to be how he was, but that's what they wrote. And we don't "need" half the shit people put in games and stories but they're there. I could go on for days about what we don't "need" in modern Scifi/Star wars but no one would care. What's there is there.

Again you and others interchangeably use costumes and cosplay and other things with fetish and sex, and even if someone likes maid outfits or cosplay doesn't automatically mean he's a sexual deviant. I feel like with the "panty shot" people are looking way more into it than the casual viewer is.

Seconds after that frame you took, Poppi floats up into the air and we can see her panties only because they decided to design her skirt so short and make that camera angle. The camera didn't need to be "shoved up her skirt" for it to be bad; there are degrees to this. The fact that they even decided to show her robo panties is the problem. You're kind of moving the goalposts with this anyway, that doesn't change all the other things mentioned like her breast physics. I expect this kind of thing in different games but not Xenoblade. I don't think anyone is under the delusion that Tora is actually having sex with Poppi (they couldn't even imply this if they wanted) but to say that he doesn't have some sort of perversion and fetish for the whole maid thing he's programmed into her is just denial. It's right there in the game. If it was just some innocent cosplay thing, he would not have gotten the reaction from the other characters that he got. Plus Tora could've made Poppi cosplay as literally anything else that fits within the shonen/otaku mold. If cosplay was the point, Poppi would've had a bunch of different outfits but Tora's closet is full of maid ones and Poppi calls him master. To be honest, I'm not even sure how you can deny that maid fetishes are not a huge thing in anime and that there's nothing sexual there.

I'm not sure why you're going so deep to try and justify the whole thing. You can say "what's there is there" but then what's the point in saying anything then? I think it's pretty clear that everything I've said is my opinion. OP said they had a limit when it came to over-the-top anime stuff like this and well, here it is. It's relevant to bring it up. Anyway, I think I'm done with this thread considering it's become a back and forth argument when OP has already decided what games they're going to get lol

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

SuperiorTrashTalk said:
I'm not sure why you're going so deep to try and justify the whole thing. You can say "what's there is there" but then what's the point in saying anything then?

The only thing I'll add to this since you're also bowing out is that you make it sound like I'm trying to "justify" something when I'm just explaining it. The fact that you can interpret sexual intention does not 100% define interpretation of intent of design. Even if Tora had a thing about maids, having her dressed like a maid doesn't make him a sexual deviant and the robot is literally a robot he made. It also once again ignores all of the characters own interactions and progression in the story for the sake of a narrative.

I'm not saying that there isn't cringe or issues with framing of certain things, I'm just saying that having a maid costume doesn't mean automatically that she's a sex bot. Having maid costumes in Three Houses doesn't automatically mean it's horny (although it's horny for other reasons).

Having a "Fetish" or fanboying about a specific thing does not automatically have the devious and insidious connotation people give to the idiot that is Tora. People are projecting their own issues onto an otaku furball and it shows. But you're right, the conversation has run its course.

Mr.Fletcher · Mar 3, 2020

WestEgg said:
Which is funny because even on here the game did extremely well on both the quintessential RPGs voting thread and the 2017 Game of the year voting.

Bit_Reactor said:
It's because most people at this point usually keep quiet about the game when it comes up, but my dumb ass keeps taking the bait haha.

The game is well-liked. It's the best-selling Xenoblade game and arguably the most popular. I'm sure a lot of people follow the MonolithNews Twitter account. It recently did a series of polls asking people a variety of questions.

It asked people which entry in the series is their favourite, which coupling is their favourite and what they want to see next. Each poll had between 1,200-1,500 votes too.

Xenoblade 2 came out on top, Rex and Pyra beat Shulk and Fiora and the majority want to see a XC3 over anything else.

Xenoblade 2 even beat out the original in a poll on ResetEra too.

I say this because my pet peeve is how Xenoblade 2 is dubbed divisive by a loud vocal minority on this forum. It's not. It's likely the most popular entry in the series.

Bit_Reactor · Mar 3, 2020

Mr.Fletcher said:
The game is well-liked. It's the best-selling Xenoblade game and arguably the most popular. I'm sure a lot of people follow the MonolithNews Twitter account. It recently did a series of polls asking people a variety of questions.

It asked people which entry in the series is their favourite, which coupling is their favourite and what they want to see next. Each poll had between 1,200-1,500 votes too.

Xenoblade 2 came out on top, Rex and Pyra beat Shulk and Fiora and the majority want to see a XC3 over anything else.

Xenoblade 2 even beat out the original in a poll on ResetEra too.

I say this because my pet peeve is how on this forum Xenoblade 2 is dubbed divisive by a loud vocal minority. It's not. It's likely the most popular entry In the series.

Which makes me happy because its fight system and cutscene ideas and graphical style is some of my favorite and makes me happy that we're getting XB1 in the same engine now. There's a whole lot to love with the personal motivations of Pyra, Malos, Jin, etc and the world building it does with characters like Zeke and his interactions with others as well. Morag is a solid character too as it makes perfect sense why the grand inqusitor would be sent to find elysium for her dying titan lol.

There's definitely bloat and issues with XB2, but I think Torna proved that if they dial it back a bit and hone in on the good stuff the next game could be legendary.

Era help me out ! Xenoblade Chronicles 2 or Final Fantasy XII (Switch)

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