Well not really. Valve has shown that you can take a hit on the costs and still make money to be profitable. That and they still offer a lot more then what EGS did in 4 years.
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Epic Store and 12% cut
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
I mean, I know, I am just saying that piracy is not driven because the game is not on Steam but rather because the value of the service provided by Epic (this incluse lack of service in certain regions) is inferior to the value of piracy ("free" game). Steam is just a service that identified the issue and solved it by making the jump to the paid service easier AND added value to the service they provided to add extra differentiation with the piracy version.
If EGS has focused more on the customer POV in both experience and paying, piracy danger would be much lower. That is what I was trying to say, that piracy is not created in its majority due to Steam-fanboys but rather due to the service provided being inferior than a "pirated copy".
I would also say that Tim Sweeney thinking that current set up of shops (not EGS but in general, so I assume uPlay / Origin lvl) being good enough for most customers is also problematic, and way more what stagnant for the marketplace. I am not confident at all that Epic will ever put their focus on the end customer (the one paying the games in the end), as they have stated that right now their real customer is developers.
Edit: I guess I should say I do not support piracy, just in case not to get banned?
I think that passing the payment fees on to consumers is good. Once consumers know about the fees, they can stop using that payment method. Competition is the only reason why high fees would go down. And if consumers aren't getting hit with them, there's no reason to change.
Yeah, I think we are agreeing with each other there. I just wanted to show how far off from "being on par" EGS really is (and as you say this insufficient service may give rise to other means of acquisition). And as you write yourself, Sweeney's opinion of this being good enough and the focus being the
People do not choose payment methods with high fees willingly, they are normally the only ones that they have access to easily. There is not a simple "stop using that payment method" or "just create your bank account in a different bank!" solution.
And what if the only options available to customers in some regions all have high payment fees? Do they just not buy the game?
...you think consumers use those not-standardized payment processors becaus they want to? You think consumers wouldn't rather just put in basic card and bank information to buy their games?
SteamSpy for Last Light regular is incorrect. It has been broken since 2018.
It used to be almost 1.5m.
OG LL sold really bad during launch, but sales picked up when it started going on sale.
The Redux version sodl much better.
Someone has to pay them. If I owned a business and there were 25% fees associated with a payment method, and I was going to take the hit, I'd just say, "nope, sorry, not taking that one. I can't afford that."
Who exactly do you want to pay the fee?
I think Valve deserves the 30% cut, they are doing a lot of good things for endusers.
source
I don't really feel like EGS deserves their 12% cut.
This makes no sense. Your charts show that Epic's 12% cut is justified VERSUS Steam's 30% cut, based on the additional services Steam offers.
Also, "deserves" is not the terminology I would use for any business model.
Right now, the biggest "perk" of selling your games on the Epic Games Store, besides keeping 88% of profit, is that the millions of people playing Fortnite will see ads for your game.
But the list of CCs include Visa, Mastercard/Eurocard and Amex? I mean, this must more or less cover the world?
But why not? I totally get ShapeGSXs argument, you do know that the fees are super high for some forms of payment, right? And that they don't offer anything more than the competitors?
This is not absurd at all. We saw massive piracy numbers with EGS exlusives like Metro Exodus and people were even openly talking or suggesting to pirate the game in all discussion boards, even within Era. Those piracy numbers were decreasing for a decade and are now jumping back to new highs because of the forced Epic exclusivity deals. So yeah, I'd say that piracy is back or is coming back.
I'd say that the President of Epic Games should count as someone from Epic. So: Mike Capps. Or Tim Sweeney as posted above.
I guess that the president of Epic Games should count as someone official from Epic Games. So: Mike Capps for example.
You might want to read interviews by Mike "PC piracy pushed us onto console" Capps
https://www.neowin.net/news/pc-piracy-drove-us-to-consoles-says-epic-games/
No, they live in places that dont get charged more, they dont care that OTHER people, overall people from developing countries pay more.
"Why would I want to live there?"
.. . . .
I think I am with the other poster, I can't do this much anymore. The logic people are going for to defend Epic, billion dollar companies, and toxic capitalism is levels of insanity. Folks, keep on fighting the good fight.
Any other topic other than Epic Game Store, and these arguments would be laughed out. But no, here trickle down economics and cronyism at the expense of the consumer is a-okay.
They don't, i doubt any of them buy pc games or if they do are from US and don't care about the rest of the world.
Tim Sweeney alone is worth 7 billion USD, he can spare me a dollar or two.
If a store selling the product is not prepared to pay the fee for a payment method, they shouldn't offer that payment method. A customer should never have to be expected to pay more money just to give you money. Do it properly or don't do it at all, you can't have your cake and eat it.
I don't play Fortnite, so I'm not sure how this works. Does Epic show ads for other games on their store in Fortnite? Or are you talking about the ads that people see when they open Epic's launcher?
So what's your argument? Raise the Epic Game Store's cut to Steam's 30% so that they don't have to pass on fees to the consumer? That'll show him, right?
Its amazing the excuses here to rationaize a billion dollar company charging poorer countries more money for video games. And you trying to argue that, that is a GOOD thing.
So here's another argument for raising the Epic cut from 12% to 30%. Then they don't have to pass on the fees to the consumer.
Fair enough - I just think that payment models with high fees should be avoided so they don't become standard because they are quite heavy on smaller businesses, especially in retail where margins are low and you have to rely on quantities sold. But that's another discussion I guess and not really applicable to this thread.
I guess I'm just as riled up about payment fees as some people are about the EGS VS Steam discussion. Sorry
lol wait a damn minute here
Epic isn't the poppy store down the street where they have a 5$ credit card minimum because they can't afford the fees under that
They should at least have a roadmap to get to a spot where they can cover those/cover the fees to get retail cards into stores
Epic isn't the poppy store down the street where they have a 5$ credit card minimum because they can't afford the fees under that
They should at least have a roadmap to get to a spot where they can cover those/cover the fees to get retail cards into stores
So, they should just lose money when they deal with those payment methods. That's what you are arguing. Or they should raise their fees to developers and publishers. This is what you want?
It makes perfect sense from my perspective as a consumer. EGS does close to nothing for me as a paying customer. The 30% cut Valve is taking is at least somewhat working in my favor.
His company should pay for it, at least if he wants my business.
After all, this is for the devs and the PC ecosystem no?
Oh but thats right, Sweeney is full of shit.
Why would you go through all that hassle when you can make so much more marking up a 1.5% credit card transaction to 12%?
Ok, so you want devs to shoulder the fee when Epic matches Steam with their 30% cut to deal with these high fee payment methods. Got it.
I want the man worth 7 billion USD put his money where his mouth is, or shut the fuck up about being benevolent with his business partners.
Added fees are no longer permitted in the UK and must be included in the advertised price
I'm fairly certain it's like that across the EU too
I'm fairly certain it's like that across the EU too
Should or shouldnt doesnt matter, piracy is rising because of shit like this.
Losing is a relative cost here. Read about negative marginal cost.
"Well perhaps governments should change then. It isn't Epic's fault governments are being unfair to big business in defense of their citizens. Pfff do you want Epic to go to 30%?!"
you do realize that is the point of stores getting a cut of every sale? because there are cost associated with selling a product?
hmm maybe Valve takes 30% for a reason? its a mystery why they do.
I think it's better the fees are past on to the consumer in the long run(?). I'm sure better payment methods will become more prevelent in other countries, and if not there is always Steam.
Exactly. Yet people from my country (Belgium, part of the EU) need to pay extra when we are paying with Bancontact (the standard/leading electronic payment company here) on EGS.
Like Steam cards for instance are basically 15% off the top for the retailer. Otherwise they wouldn't carry them. I don't know how Epic intends to get them in stores with 88/12.
Try living in a country outside of the EU or US for some time.
So practices that are not accepted in any other retail transaction industry should be done for video games because....? why?
Ok, so you want people in less developed countries to shoulder the fee for Epic in order to give publishers more money. Got it.
He's Ukrainian, and if you follow the latest events at all it should tell you all you need to know about how much he cares for the state of gaming here. I wouldn't be surprised if he's doing what he's doing exactly because he knows how much of a benefit Steam's model is to the gamers and game-dev in our country.