Epic Store and 12% cut

[Ghostwalker]

Take 2 is publishing The Outer Worlds, they decide where it launches. Microsoft owns the developer but beyond torpedoing the whole game and breaching contract, it's not clear how they would have a say over decisions of this nature. The game is also launching on ps4 even though Microsoft owns Obsidian.

They may also have worked out a deal with Microsoft separately for win 10 store, but it was not a MS decision to put the game on EGS and not Steam. More likely, EGS doesn't care greatly about the Microsoft store because it's an industry non-factor in the PC space and maintaining good relations with Microsoft is worth letting it launch on a store with basically no customers. This isn't the first game whose PC version was EGS exclusive except for the win 10 store after all.

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If MS saw potential The Outer Worlds and decided wanted it they would work out how much breaching the contract would cost them. Make Take Two and offer based of that, telling them they will just breach the contract if they don't accept it and let the lawyers fight it out. Take-Two would accept that offer. Same if they wanted the sales numbers for the game that only Steam could give them at this stage.

The money involved in this is chump change to Microsoft and Take-Two need Microsoft one hell of a lot more than Microsoft needs Take Two.

 

[Gevin]

I legitimately cannot stress how irresponsible those tweets from that Valve rep are RE: paying for retail wallet card fees

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How so?

 

[Crayon]

We collectively tend to say 'developers' when we are really talking about 'publishers'.

In a lot of cases, this cut -not to mention the wad of cash for any exclusivity- is probably a lot more beneficial to the publisher than the developer.

 

[Majukun]

From what I can tell, the only game that's passing along any savings to the end-consumer as a result of this better revenue split is Metro Exodus which is selling for $49.99

Every other "major" title -- The Division 2, Borderlands 3, Control, Darksiders III, The Sinking City, etc. -- is selling for the standard $59.99.

So exactly where the hell is the benefit to me as a consumer of this superior revenue spilt for the developer/publisher?

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there's none
that's why you should pay with your wallet and don't buy on the epic store if their proposaò does not satisfy you.

 

[Grand Galvantula]

We collectively tend to say 'developers' when we are really talking about 'publishers'.

In a lot of cases, this cut -not to mention the wad of cash for any exclusivity- is probably a lot more beneficial to the publisher than the developer.

Click to shrink...

somehow I doubt the average Epic defender understands this. Or at the very least they push the trickle-down excuse.

 

[Ghostwalker]

We collectively tend to say 'developers' when we are really talking about 'publishers'.

In a lot of cases, this cut -not to mention the wad of cash for any exclusivity- is probably a lot more beneficial to the publisher than the developer.

Click to shrink...

This is what worries me about Epic.

If a publisher thinks a game will not sell to well, if they can convince Epic to moneyhat them enough to make a small profit then can just cut support and advertising to a minimum and send it to EGS to die.

 

[Nooblet]

From what I can tell, the only game that's passing along any savings to the end-consumer as a result of this better revenue split is Metro Exodus which is selling for $49.99

Every other "major" title -- The Division 2, Borderlands 3, Control, Darksiders III, The Sinking City, etc. -- is selling for the standard $59.99.

So exactly where the hell is the benefit to me as a consumer of this superior revenue spilt for the developer/publisher?

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In terms of Division 2 you are getting free DLCs whereas Division 1 had paid DLCs. It's a game built around mtx and Epic is not taking a single cent out of the mtx and every mtx purchase is done on uplay instead of EGS...whereas with steam version of Ubi games steam didn't allow mtx to be processed on uplay and instead forced it to be done on steam and took their 20% cut on each mtx (since the cut is lower for big publishers). I remember recently reading about a game that will launch in the future as EGS (timed?) exclusive games that doesn't have an integrated separate platform like uplay and hence will process the mtx on EGS but won't take any cut out of it. I just can't remember the name of the game atm. But less to no cut on mtx could be very beneficial for GaaS games in terms of post launch content.

 

[Armaros]

In terms of Division 2 you are getting free DLCs whereas Division 1 had paid DLCs. It's a game built around mtx and Epic is not taking a single cent out of the mtx and every mtx purchase is done on uplay instead of EGS...whereas with steam version of Ubi games steam didn't allow mtx to be processed on uplay and instead forced it to be done on steam and took their 20% cut on each mtx (since the cut is lower for big publishers). I think in the future there are some EGS (timed?)exclusive games

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Uh, how does that have anything to do with the epic store?

the game has been in development for years before the EPIC store was even a hint. The DLC plans have been in place for a long time.

 

[Kurt Russell]

In terms of Division 2 you are getting free DLCs whereas Division 1 had paid DLCs. It's a game built around mtx and Epic is not taking a single cent out of the mtx and every mtx purchase is done on uplay instead of EGS...whereas with steam version of Ubi games steam didn't allow mtx to be processed on uplay and instead forced it to be done on steam and took their 20% cut on each mtx (since the cut is lower for big publishers). I think in the future there are some EGS (timed?)exclusive games

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The Division 2 also offers free DLC on consoles.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

I guess I should feel bad about them not supporting PayPal but considering their service is basically making money by being a bank without having to actually take on the liabilities that the average bank does (not to mention other shady shit like the infamous violin dispute for example), I'm not. Would I like to see EGS points cards in store? Sure. I'm surprised that isn't a thing already, especially given how their current income is built on Fortnite's microtransactions

 

[Deleted member 2171]

For what it's worth, the contracts for you to take card payments in the United States legally require you to never show the fee that the card carrier charges you for taking the card, even if taking the card as payment means you lose all profit on the transaction. The card companies also lobbied to make even showing how much the card cost in the transaction illegal in most of the states, although some industries are allowed to show or expose the charge.

This is why merchants fought and eventually got the ability to legally ask for a minimum amount to use a card so that the card fee wouldn't consume all of the transaction's profit, but most still can't break out the actual charge. They are also allowed to charge less for using cash now, which many places do.

So yeah, the cost of using most methods is hidden because the cost of using those payment methods was either absorbed by taking a bigger cut even on methods that don't take as big a chunk or on transactions that subsidize the smaller transactions because the store was legally required to, to even take cards. This impacts you even if you're running your own store on your own site.

This is also why certain cards aren't taken at places because that specific card takes a LOT more than the other ones, but the only option is to not accept them at all.

This is also why when you eat at a local restaurant or shop at a locally owned shop, please pay in cash where possible, because if they're taking cards they're getting rinsed by them.

I guess I should feel bad about them not supporting PayPal but considering their service is basically making money by being a bank without having to actually take on the liabilities that the average bank does (not to mention other shady shit like the infamous violin dispute for example), I'm not. Would I like to see EGS points cards in store? Sure. I'm surprised that isn't a thing already, especially given how their current income is built on Fortnite's microtransactions

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I mean, Paypal's been known to just practically steal money from people that operate their own tiny store online because they'll mark sudden influx of money as "suspicious".

 

[Cipherr]

Edited because Im not saying anything that hasnt already been said. I didnt refresh before posting.

 

[Merc]

So you support developing countries paying more money for the same game?

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No. In this case, I wouldn't support it. For the USA where I live though, I think it is great for the consumer to pay the vendor fee. I support it so more money can go to the developer. They deserve more. Also, then consumers would vote for their wallets and choose the less expensive payment vendor fee. Maybe this would even make companies lower the process fee after awhile.

A lot of the payment process fees by vendors are really expensive, and consumers have no idea. They just think it's free for the business owner when they swipe their Mastercard. I remember some small businesses near me wouldn't even accept Discover credit card because they took too much of a cut. And I am talking about local restaurants, gas stations, home improvement stores owned by a family, etc., that really hurt business owners and families trying to make it. The expensive fees really affect the developer and the cost of running. Developers in my opinion deserve more for their hard work and artistic expression than the storefront.

 

[Braaier]

Pretty interesting stuff. Thx op

 

[Deleted member 4044]

Uh, how does that have anything to do with the epic store?

the game has been in development for years before the EPIC store was even a hint. The DLC plans have been in place for a long time.

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If you were developing a post release roadmap of content built around a MTX model and suddenly an option appeared that let you keep 20% more of those MTX, wouldn't you be more inclined to take it?

This also helps explain why Far Cry New Dawn came to Steam while Division 2 didn't. One relies on MTX as a GaaS title and the other is largely a single player game.

 

[Cpt-GargameL]

I can see them doing this 88/12 split for a bit to attract devs and once they feel comfortable with what they got they'll go say 80/20 as a measure to not continue upsetting their customers with their fees since we eat them. It's shitty what they have in place now and I can see devs eventually backing out if they don't adjust these figures to retain customers because no customer= no money.

 

[Armaros]

If you were developing a post release roadmap of content built around a MTX model and suddenly an option appeared that let you keep 20% more of those MTX, wouldn't you be more inclined to take it?

This also helps explain why Far Cry New Dawn came to Steam while Division 2 didn't. One relies on MTX as a GaaS title and the other is largely a single player game.

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So that explains how DLC is also free on consoles, with the full 30% cut + licensing fees?

 

[Deleted member 4044]

So that explains how DLC is also free on consoles, with the full 30% cut + licensing fees?

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Obviously they are going to offer DLC everywhere. They would've been okay with their cut of MTX revenue on Steam, but then an alternative that let them keep more of their cut showed up. If a similar situation happened on consoles (where it can't, but for the sake of the thought experiment) they would most likely do the same.

Ubi Soft's thought process is not, "Well if we can't keep 100% of MTX revenue, we won't support DLC for that platform." Instead, it's "How do we maximize revenue on each individual platform?" The situation changed on PC and they made a business decision.

 

[Armaros]

Obviously they are going to offer DLC everywhere. They would've been okay with their cut of MTX revenue on Steam, but then an alternative that let them keep more of their cut showed up. If a similar situation happened on consoles (where it can't, but for the sake of the thought experiment) they would most likely do the same.

Ubi Soft's thought process is not, "Well if we can't keep 100% of MTX revenue, we won't support DLC for that platform." Instead, it's "How do we maximize revenue on each individual platform?" The situation changed on PC and they made a business decision.

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So you are just making a lot of stuff with no basis for it? If the epic store was the point that made their DLC for free, they would be advertising that. But they are not, especially confusing considering they have advertised they wont have paid DLC since well before the epic store existed or was even rumored.

 

[Demacabre]

We collectively tend to say 'developers' when we are really talking about 'publishers'.

In a lot of cases, this cut -not to mention the wad of cash for any exclusivity- is probably a lot more beneficial to the publisher than the developer.

Click to shrink...

Everytime the "For the Developers" narrative comes up, I cringe at how much this is just obfuscated PR drivel. Self published developers do theoretically benefit but EGS is going for games with publishers so much harder. Infact they are dropping the majority of the money on big publishers. Publishers could 'trickle down' the money Epic is giving them to their devs. I have zero faith in big coporations and trickle down economics.

Plus their "heavy curation" ensures that less and less self published developers will be accepted. There is a lot of low effort asset flipped, racist, and cringy shit out there (and they should be curated out), but there is also a lot of just starting indie devs that will lack polish and look not so great despite their legitamite passion and drive.

 

[justiceiro]

Steam also charge payent fee on my country. Basically, credit card is the only way to no having to pay for payment fees. So i either pay 88% to dev + 12% to epic store + payment fees, or 70% to the devs + 30% to steam + payment fees.

I can also wait for a promotion on third party store like op suggested, or hope that epic games giveway in their store.

 

[spam musubi]

Obviously they are going to offer DLC everywhere. They would've been okay with their cut of MTX revenue on Steam, but then an alternative that let them keep more of their cut showed up. If a similar situation happened on consoles (where it can't, but for the sake of the thought experiment) they would most likely do the same.

Ubi Soft's thought process is not, "Well if we can't keep 100% of MTX revenue, we won't support DLC for that platform." Instead, it's "How do we maximize revenue on each individual platform?" The situation changed on PC and they made a business decision.

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This is like the bargaining phase of grief for trickle down economics where we take unrelated business decisions and try to use them as evidence for trickle down actually working. Ubisoft have transitioned into a free DLC microtransaction model for all their service games years ago before the EGS was a thing. For Honor and R6S are examples of this and they're on steam. Let's not fabricate stuff to defend EGS at least.

 

[Mentalist]

I can see them doing this 88/12 split for a bit to attract devs and once they feel comfortable with what they got they'll go say 80/20 as a measure to not continue upsetting their customers with their fees since we eat them. It's shitty what they have in place now and I can see devs eventually backing out if they don't adjust these figures to retain customers because no customer= no money.

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Add the 6% for "influencers" since Epic isn't planning to promote any games on their stores, and suddenly devs are pretty close to that 30% again....

 

[Deleted member 4044]

So you are just making a lot of stuff with no basis for it? If the epic store was the point that made their DLC for free, they would be advertising that. But they are not, especially confusing considering they have advertised they wont have paid DLC since well before the epic store existed or was even rumored.

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Not sure why you're reading past my only point. The Epic Store did not cause them to make their DLC free and supported by MTX. But if they're offering an alternative to Steam that allows Ubi to keep more revenue from MTX (which is their only monetization path for the post-release DLC), well that certainly seems like the cherry on top of the original payment for exclusivity.

 

[Deleted member 3294]

Don't really have anything to add to this thread aside from that if people wanna support small developers they should buy more stuff from itch.io. The site does a pretty good job showcasing cool new stuff and also the default cut the store takes is 10%, and is even adjustable by the developer.

 

[True Prophecy]

Thanks for this OP its taught me a few things I didn't know about this. Sadly it will all fall on deaf ears if you look at any comment section or Twitter response EPIC has put enough FUD out there that people are convinced they are a good force.

 

[Ganransu]

Everytime the "For the Developers" narrative comes up, I cringe at how much this is just obfuscated PR drivel. Self published developers do theoretically benefit but EGS is going for games with publishers so much harder. Infact they are dropping the majority of the money on big publishers. Publishers could 'trickle down' the money Epic is giving them to their devs. I have zero faith in big coporations and trickle down economics.

Plus their "heavy curation" ensures that less and less self published developers will be accepted. There is a lot of low effort asset flipped, racist, and cringy shit out there (and they should be curated out), but there is also a lot of just starting indie devs that will lack polish and look not so great despite their legitamite passion and drive.

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Thank you for typing my post for me.

Don't really have anything to add to this thread aside from that if people wanna support small developers they should buy more stuff from itch.io. The site does a pretty good job showcasing cool new stuff and also the default cut the store takes is 10%, and is even adjustable by the developer.

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What this whole Epic thing has taught me is that you can get less than Steam's evil 30% cut by taking your game elsewhere by using their free key generator.

 

[Deleted member 3294]

What this whole Epic thing has taught me is that you can get less than Steam's evil 30% cut by taking your game elsewhere by using their free key generator.

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This argument would be better if people generally bought Steam games from itch (rather than either Steam itself or stores with big discounts).

Anyway buy games from itch.

 

[demondance]

We collectively tend to say 'developers' when we are really talking about 'publishers'.

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I think it's more this specific topic that has people using "developer" so loosely for whatever reason. Usually the distinction is obvious; "I like Bioware but hate EA," etc.

 

[DjDeathCool]

Reminder:

Given the volatility in recent Epic Game Store related threads we have decided that some clearer guidelines are required to cultivate healthier discussion.

• Do not enter these threads in bad faith. If we conclude that your goal is to misrepresent the concerns of other users or rile people up, you will be moderated. Intent matters here. Honest questions or commentary about the differences and similarities between the Epic Games Store and other storefronts are fine. Deliberately and dismissively attempting to troll concerned members on those topics is not okay. These discussions must be held in good faith and in a civil manner.
• As a reminder, antagonizing or engaging in personal attacks on other members is still against the rules. We have a large community with a wide range of preferences and personal priorities. Not everyone will feel the same way as you do on any given topic. If you feel a post is breaking a rule please report it and do not respond with hostility. If you choose to engage do so politely. We always check to see which users have a history of trouble in this area.
• It is perfectly acceptable to want to wait for a game to be released on the storefront of your preference (ex: "I'll just wait for the Steam release.") It is not acceptable to troll threads because of storefront exclusivity timed or otherwise (ex: "So the real PC release is going to be a year later.") The latter is needlessly inflammatory and distracts from discussion. We will be scrutinizing these posts more closely going forward.
• Do not advocate, defend, or admit to piracy under any circumstances. This is explicitly against our Terms of Service. There are no justifications that will make this acceptable.

Addendum: It's fine and often healthy to be critical of media coverage (ex: "I don't think this article is good and here's why"), but please avoid going down any rabbit holes with excessive vitriol and conspiracy theories (ex: "This outlet is clearly paid off because I don't agree with their coverage"). We've long had a general policy against hyperbolic vilification of the media and that rule has not been suspended.

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Wow. I haven't really been peaking my head in threads about the Epic Games Store but it's surprising to me that they apparently turn so toxic so quickly.

I guess I am of the mind that Epic has been acting like a wolf in sheep's clothing over this whole situation and I really don't want to give them my money. Thankfully, none of the exclusives so far have been "must plays" for me, so I haven't had to make the decision between boycott or play a game I've been looking forward to. Hopefully, Epic cuts that shit out but I doubt it...

Side Note: What was the name of that fancy front-end that consolidates your PC games library? Someone made a thread about it a few days back. I should probably start looking in to that. *siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

 

[Deleted member 3190]

So right now Steam eats the transaction fees and EGS solution is for the consumer to eat the transaction fee (which in time probably become devs eat the fee)?

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I'm not sure I would call it "eating" it. They're just making the developer pay for it, but taking care of it for them.

 

[eosos]

You can't beat 88-12 split. That Fortnite money doing devs good.

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Lmao this got someone banned? What in the world?

The payment method limitations seems pretty standard to me. I can't imagine this impacting 99% of users. However, I'm really curious about how the store has been doing compared to competitors. Is there any data out there for games that were released at the same time on both Epic and Steam? Wonder what the split is.

 

[Mr. X]

I'm not sure I would call it "eating" it. They're just making the developer pay for it, but taking care of it for them.

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Eating it meaning out of their 30%.

 

[Deleted member 42]

Side Note: What was the name of that fancy front-end that consolidates your PC games library? Someone made a thread about it a few days back. I should probably start looking in to that. *siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

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Playnite

https://playnite.link

 

[Netherscourge]

I have no problem using the same credit card I registered with Pay Pal.

I don't see Pay Pal as a must-have service in anyway whatsoever.

 

[Karppuuna]

I don't think that extra money that epic give vs steam is going to developers pocket, it's company ceo and investors how gets them, so basic developers in big game company doesn't benefit epic exclusive at all.

 

[SFLUFAN]

Side Note: What was the name of that fancy front-end that consolidates your PC games library? Someone made a thread about it a few days back. I should probably start looking in to that. *siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

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Was it Launchbox?

 

[Deleted member 5621]

"Supporting developers? Lol good one. The industry can go piss itself"

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Why isn't every game on itch.io then? :thinking:

 

[Deleted member 3190]

I don't think that extra money that epic give vs steam is going to developers pocket, it's company ceo and investors how gets them, so basic developers in big game company don't benefits epic exclusive at all.

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Yeah, that 18% specifically is the "fuck our employees" fund. I'm not saying their aren't shitty companies that treat employees like garbage, but this extra cut can go to the overall well-being of the companies. Allowing extra hires, preventing layoffs and yes likely additional profits for some suit somewhere. But it's disingenuous to suggest that none of the money will help developers.

 

[Armaros]

Yeah, that 18% specifically is the "fuck our employees" fund. I'm not saying their aren't shitty companies that treat employees like garbage, but this extra cut can go to the overall well-being of the companies. Allowing extra hires, preventing layoffs and yes likely additional profits for some suit somewhere. But it's disingenuous to suggest that none of the money will help developers.

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Not every publisher-> developer deal has the publisher owning the developer.
In fact the majority of games devs are not owned by their respective pubsliers for their games.

Which means the developer will generally only get the money that is stipulated in their contact. So unless the contract has a clause about deals like Epic's, they probably won't see any direct money.

You think Take-Two is giving Obsidian any extra money for their Epic deal?

 

[spam musubi]

Not every publisher-> developer deal has the publisher owning the developer.
In fact the majority of games devs are not owned by their respective pubsliers for their games.

Which means the developer will generally only get the money that is stipulated in their contact. So unless the contract has a clause about deals like Epic's, they probably won't see any direct money.

You think Take-Two is giving Obsidian any extra money for their Epic deal?

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Considering one month before the deal was announced, Obisidian leads were saying they would not do PC store exclusivity, I really doubt that the publisher was informing them of any extra money coming soon.

 

[SteveWinwood]

This argument would be better if people generally bought Steam games from itch (rather than either Steam itself or stores with big discounts).

Anyway buy games from itch.

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i try to buy it from the devs site if it gives me a steam key

usually uses the humble widget

Lmao this got someone banned? What in the world?

The payment method limitations seems pretty standard to me. I can't imagine this impacting 99% of users. However, I'm really curious about how the store has been doing compared to competitors. Is there any data out there for games that were released at the same time on both Epic and Steam? Wonder what the split is.

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it's called drive by shitposting

and no we have no data like that

just a very vague figure about metros sales relative to a previous release

 

[dex3108]

Steam also charge payent fee on my country. Basically, credit card is the only way to no having to pay for payment fees. So i either pay 88% to dev + 12% to epic store + payment fees, or 70% to the devs + 30% to steam + payment fees.

I can also wait for a promotion on third party store like op suggested, or hope that epic games giveway in their store.

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What country and what payment method if I may ask?

 

[Csr]

There are so many stores and launchers already and Steam has by far the biggest share, why on earth would they feel pressured by the Epic store in it's infancy. It is a lot more logical to me that Valve adjusted their cut because of Bethesda and other publishers that might be thinking of leaving. I could see that it might have caused the announcement to come a little sooner but that's it.

 

[Kurt Russell]

Playnite

https://playnite.link

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Thanks for the link.

Anything on this?

I legitimately cannot stress how irresponsible those tweets from that Valve rep are RE: paying for retail wallet card fees



Amazon has their own payment service so yeah they wanna cut dat boi out

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(as in, what's the irresponsible thing about the tweets?)

 

[jsnepo]

OP did great work. This actually makes a lot of sense. I wonder what Jim Sterling's take on this.

 

[Rockin' Ranger]

i try to buy it from the devs site if it gives me a steam key

usually uses the humble widget

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Would be the best way if someone wants to support devs, Humble Widget offers a 95% cut.

 

[Demacabre]

OP did great work. This actually makes a lot of sense. I wonder what Jim Sterling's take on this.

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One of the loose consistent things about public people supporting Epic is that they are either devs or have close ties to devs. On its face, EGS is pro devs in theory (I'd argue it's far more pro Publisher in practice unless it is a self published indie dev but hey, the PR bullshit stuck). They are all willing to ignore and even defend the litany of issues with Epic in the hopes it opens up more money to either themselves or people they are close to. (The consumer be damned in this self serving calculation) Basically, they have an "ends justify the means" view on this.

Jim has personal and professional ties to devs and also a well established bias against Steam. He will softball any criticism against Epic. He has gone so far to suggest this is competition, competition is ruthless, we should accept ruthless competition cause capitolism is here and won't be changed. Which, had it been anyone other than a competitor of Steam, he would have gone heavy on them. He has eviscerated companies for far less. The video almost seemed to have been produced as to not come across as horridly inconsistent to his fanbase.

I have really lost confidence in Jim because of this. I suspect his bias against Steam and ties to developers is clouding him giving him an anticonsumer stance. I won't outright bash the man because he has done good work in the past for consumers but he is hypocritical as fuck on this topic.

 

[Ganransu]

This argument would be better if people generally bought Steam games from itch (rather than either Steam itself or stores with big discounts).

Anyway buy games from itch.

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The way I see it, as someone hoping to make a game or two to sell, I would still pick Steam over EGS. I understand that the effective cut is still higher than EGS, but I like the options to sell to a broader audience.

If people truly care about "supporting the developers" and not just parroting the PR lines by Epic, they would start buying from itch and other sites that offer a better cut than Steam and even EGS, assuming they don't know about it before.

However, I suspect too many are going to let their anti-Steam sentiments rule over the truth.

 

[Deleted member 3294]

The way I see it, as someone hoping to make a game or two to sell, I would still pick Steam over EGS. I understand that the effective cut is still higher than EGS, but I like the options to sell to a broader audience.

If people truly care about "supporting the developers" and not just parroting the PR lines by Epic, they would start buying from itch and other sites that offer a better cut than Steam and even EGS, assuming they don't know about it before.

However, I suspect too many are going to let their anti-Steam sentiments rule over the truth.

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Tbh I'm not sure what your point even is here, but I can't say I disagree with people saying Steam should do better for devs, at least smaller ones whose games aren't very visible on Steam due to the algorithms generally only showing already successful games. They should especially do better for marginalized devs who would receive the worst from Steam's toxic community, and may have their game sold on the store next to some bigoted trash since Steam's Moderators just let that stuff through.

I don't think EGS will actually get Valve to do better about that stuff, not with the strategies Epic is using to compete, but people aren't wrong for wanting Valve to do better, and being frustrated with Steam.

And yeah, people who say stores should do better for devs should buy more games from itch (if they aren't already) cause they do great for devs. But that doesn't mean they aren't right when saying other stores should do better.

Anyway buy games from itch.