Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse [See Staff Post] [UP: Devs release statement]

[Splader]

The EGS store is a heavily contested topic, but when harrassment hits the level it has now, that's what the focus has to be on.

This is terrible and yet not surprising, especially in something like a discord chat. Internet chats in general are full of one liners spam. Couple that with the sheer number of people who feel so strongly about the EGS and I'm honestly surprised the Ooblets Devs didn't just shut their discord server down temporarily while the fire dies out.

 

[Shelbyville Milhouse]

I've been following the development of this title for quite a long time and genuinely fuck anyone who sent those wonderful people threats and harassment over which store a dev is using to sell their game.

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"What did you do this weekend?"
"Hung out with some friends, played some games, the usual. You?"
"I spent it faking a video of a guy insulting hard r gamers for not liking a store"

 

[Deleted member 46489]

Man this sucks. I hope the devs manage to bounce back from this. And I'm not saying that because I want the game, but because they're good human beings who don't deserve this.
I would highly recommend sending them positive tweets on twitter to counteract the hate.

 

[CheeseWraith]

It's time people realize that playing games is your hobby not your identity

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Unfortunately anything one does is part of "identity". Be it playing games, supporting a sports team, being part of a religious community, wearing a certain kind of clothes and so on.

Tribal behavior is not going away, it's been there since the dawn of time.

 

[Brat-Sampson]

I wish EGS and all the devs involved all the best.

Nothing about the situation remotely warrants or justifies this level of reaction.

 

[Deleted member 6573]

.

 

[nekkid]

I've been following the development of this title for quite a long time and genuinely fuck anyone who sent those wonderful people threats and harassment over which store a dev is using to sell their game.

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I'd like to say I was surprised by this, I really would.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Unfortunately anything one does is part of "identity". Be it playing games, supporting a sports team, being part of a religious community, wearing a certain kind of clothes and so on.

Tribal behavior is not going away, it's been there since the dawn of time.

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I don't think it's that simple

You don't see the same fervor in film and TV with a few exceptions and most of those exceptions tie back into geek/nerd media identity (which is another issue)

You don't see movie watchers, book readers, tv watchers adopt the same consumption as identity thing

 

[Irrotational]

I don't think it's that simple

You don't see the same fervor in film and TV with a few exceptions and most of those exceptions tie back into geek/nerd media identity (which is another issue)

You don't see movie watchers, book readers, tv watchers adopt the same consumption as identity thing

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Yeah that's interesting...maybe it's to do with the length of the media (so the amount you're invested in it) plus a lot of games involve being, or identifying with, the protagonist.

Plus of course teenagers, and boys especially, are horrible.

 

[CheeseWraith]

I don't think it's that simple

You don't see the same fervor in film and TV with a few exceptions and most of those exceptions tie back into geek/nerd media identity (which is another issue)

You don't see movie watchers, book readers, tv watchers adopt the same consumption as identity thing

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There are probably some correlations with other factors, indeed. One of them could just be that the medium itself is the same as the communication platform.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yeah that's interesting...maybe it's to do with the length of the media (so the amount you're invested in it) plus a lot of games involve being, or identifying with, the protagonist.

Plus of course teenagers, and boys especially, are horrible.

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There are probably some correlations with other factors, indeed. One of them could just be that the medium itself is the same as the communication platform.

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One factor is the gaming industry outright cultivates that gaming as identity

Look at the Video Game Awards vs Oscars, Emmy's, Grammys, etc...

 

[Alexandros]

Harrassment and threats are never acceptable, period.

We can do better because I strongly believe that decent people heavily outnumber assholes.

 

[Stop It]

I don't think it's that simple

You don't see the same fervor in film and TV with a few exceptions and most of those exceptions tie back into geek/nerd media identity (which is another issue)

You don't see movie watchers, book readers, tv watchers adopt the same consumption as identity thing

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It's an older generation and of another time but you see entire sets of people act as if the likes of EastEnders and Corrie are real life to the point of harassing the actors involved for being "evil" in their roles.

It isn't just nerds, honestly. Anything popular always comes with a subset of people who do this.

Gaming culture however has some of the most toxic, entitled, and tribalist mindsets that's for sure.

Harassment is unacceptable, no ifs or buts. The conversation about the industry is a separate one and for a different time.

We as a community (And I say this as a gamer and PC gamer) need to do more to defend those under attack by people fuelled only by hate. It's not good enough to say "of course I reject death threats but". If we as a community attack our own because of stuff like this, those with no morals will surely follow.

We need to do better, and put aside differences first to defend anyone within it from hatred. Being a good person, a good community doesn't require you to agree with someone all the time.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's an older generation and of another time but you see entire sets of people act as if the likes of EastEnders and Corrie are real life to the point of harassing the actors involved for being "evil" in their roles.

It isn't just nerds, honestly. Anything popular always comes with a subset of people who do this.

Gaming culture however has some of the most toxic, entitled, and tribalist mindsets that's for sure.

Harassment is unacceptable, no ifs or buts. The conversation about the industry is a separate one and for a different time.

We as a community (And I say this as a gamer and PC gamer) need to do more to defend those under attack by people fuelled only by hate. It's not good enough to say "of course I reject death threats but". If we as a community attack our own because of stuff like this, those with no morals will surely follow.

We need to do better, and put aside differences first to defend anyone within it from hatred. Being a good person, a good community doesn't require you to agree with someone all the time.

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Yeah, I'm not saying it never happens elsewhere... I'm saying gamer is an identity is far more prevalent and cultivated

 

[Cincaid]

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What the hell. Also, a quick look at some of the replies to that Tweet:







I could go on, the Twitter thread is full of those replies. Like seriously, what the hell is going on? What makes people act this way? How can anyone be this insensitive and look themselves in the mirror? I'm fully aware of that this behavior is not exclusive to gaming, but gaming should be something that unites us in an entertainment business, not attack each other at every possible moment. My son is now two years old and my daughter is just five months old, and I'm seriously anxious when the time comes for them to start going online, when it's just oozing with angry, harmful and terrible people around every corner.

 

[Pixieking]

One factor is the gaming industry outright cultivates that gaming as identity

Look at the Video Game Awards vs Oscars, Emmy's, Grammys, etc...

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Yup, and it's done it for decades. Commodore vs Spectrum, Amiga vs Atari, Sega vs Nintendo, Sony vs Microsoft. Every single "battle" a push to get gamers to identify as "us vs them", companies and media both.

We as a community (And I say this as a gamer and PC gamer) need to do more to defend those under attack by people fuelled only by hate. It's not good enough to say "of course I reject death threats but". If we as a community attack our own because of stuff like this, those with no morals will surely follow.

We need to do better, and put aside differences first to defend anyone within it from hatred. Being a good person, a good community doesn't require you to agree with someone all the time.

Click to shrink...

I agree, totally. But at the same time, there's only so much we - being outside of the industry - can do. I fully believe that companies need to do more, and have needed to do more for years. From the time of GG I was posting in the old place (and gi.biz) saying that it's an institutional problem that the industry needs to tackle. This comment is from this article in 2016

A sizable number of "gamers" find it acceptable to threaten and abuse not only a developer, but the developer's family. The industry needs to accept that this is as institutional a problem as football hooliganism was in the UK during the 80s/early 90s. It's not the majority of gamers, no, but nor was it the majority of football fans, and it still ruined lives, and gave the sport an image problem.

Edit: If I were an optimistic wishing type-of-person, I would say that the industry bodies and publishers in gaming should join forces with publishers in the comics industry, and spearhead a "No to Bullying" campaign. Considering some comics creators have just as much hate spewed at them as those in gaming, and considering the demographics crossover, I think it would be very worthwhile.

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I still believe that. Bullying and harassment online is pervasive in nerd culture, and it needs official bodies, companies, and industry leaders to stand-up against it, as well as for us to police our own.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Yup, and it's done it for decades. Commodore vs Spectrum, Amiga vs Atari, Sega vs Nintendo, Sony vs Microsoft. Every single "battle" a push to get gamers to identify as "us vs them"

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Yeah you don't see "Harper's Flys to where Penguin Books can't waddle"

 

[Airbar]

Yeah you don't see "Harper's Flys to where Penguin Books can't waddle"

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Not gonna lie, that would rock though lol

 

[boris_feinbrand]

Empty Cans rattle the loudest. Fuck me, some of those Twitter replies. Imagine being such pathetic, narcissistic self absorbed assholes.

 

[Lentic]

You can legitimately criticize and dislike Epic, but it's always been clear to me that this whole movement was caught up in kneejerk bloodthirst. One of the things that stood out to me right away were the accusations thrown at games journalists of being paid off by Epic. That was a major red flag and told me a lot about some of the people who were on this train.

Then, there's the childish, out of touch mischaracterization of the developers and Epic. Let's get it straight: Epic is making deals with developers to have exclusivity for their work. This isn't something new and this happens all the time with movies and TV shows. Hell, it has happened all the time with consoles for fucking ages. Yet you get people saying shit like "they took bribes" or "they're corrupt" All that does is increase irrational hostility towards people involved and I wish that stuff as cracked down on harder going forward.

 

[Feep]

Empty Cans rattle the loudest. Fuck me, some of those Twitter replies. Imagine being such pathetic, narcissistic self absorbed assholes.

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All three of them have anime avatars.

Hmmmm.

 

[TSM]

I think the main problem is the disproportionately angry responses even minor issues tend to generate on the internet. And when it's pointed out you get a lot of "but they made us this angry" responses. Nothing these devs did warranted anything like the angry response they got nevermind the threats and harassment.

 

[Stop It]

Yup, and it's done it for decades. Commodore vs Spectrum, Amiga vs Atari, Sega vs Nintendo, Sony vs Microsoft. Every single "battle" a push to get gamers to identify as "us vs them", companies and media both.



I agree, totally. But at the same time, there's only so much we - being outside of the industry - can do. I fully believe that companies need to do more, and have needed to do more for years. From the time of GG I was posting in the old place (and gi.biz) saying that it's an institutional problem that the industry needs to tackle. This comment is from this article in 2016



I still believe that. Bullying and harassment online is pervasive in nerd culture, and it needs official bodies, companies, and industry leaders to stand-up against it, as well as for us to police our own.

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Oh, definitely. But it starts with us. We need to make it clear that hate is not welcome.

From there we need the support of the industry and other bodies to rid our community of hate and make it clear it isn't welcome.

Alas when some of the worst of the hate comes from a demographic that has been constantly pandered to, it emboldens them and makes them feel justified in their actions and it harms everyone.

 

[Ghostswillpass]

This is awful, I hope the developers are safe and stay away from any and all comment section related to this.

The fact that some people in the gaming community think that they are so entitled to get things exactly how they want that they go as far as harassment is disgusting.

 

[Deleted member 20471]

This is becoming the new gamergate, we have to stop before it's too late.

I'm sorry for the people that genuinely want to discuss about the problems that they have with the EGS but this not the right time to do it, you're just giving a cover to an hateful movement.

 

[snail_maze]

All three of them have anime avatars.

Hmmmm.

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I always thought that "anime avatar" stereotype when it comes to harrassment to be a joke but it seems like it's an actual thing. How weird

 

[Executive Taxi]

This is becoming the new gamergate, we have to stop before it's too late.

I'm sorry for the people that genuinely want to discuss about the problems that they have with the EGS but this not the right time to do it, you're just giving a cover to an hateful movement.

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It really is. The EGS and the whole 'pro-consumer' movement in the games industry is attracting the worst of the worst and the same demographic as Gamergate and its related scandals.

 

[Euler.L.]

All three of them have anime avatars.

Hmmmm.

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Sure strange that he quoted the three people with anime avatars and not all those other people in the room.

 

[T002 Tyrant]

Man I got banned for comparing Pokémon fans to Trump Supporters but I may change my stance and get banned for comparing the anti-EGS movement to them instead. ;-p

I've been having literal panic attacks and deleted several posts before I made them in defence of EGS and pointing out the awful unwarranted behaviour of folks here and elsewhere online. I'm more disgusted however by persons on this forum with such behaviour, a forum that allegedly prides itself on being progressive but has now in my eyes muddied its reputation with posts either attacking Epic, the Developers for making a business decision that was right for them or the rabid attacks on others for having a difference of opinion. I tell you a person or a company can be the best in the world until they do one thing that doesn't fit within one's cardboard cutout of one's morality and then suddenly they're worse than Hitler, and suddenly that makes it okay to attack someone or a company just as bad as someone on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Shouting at someone, calling them trash and worse doesn't make you better than them just because one thinks they don't fall exactly within the same perceived moral ground as you, it just makes you as bad as them or worse.

It's fine to criticise and have a debate but things should just get shut down when things get heated.

I'm still having a panic attack as I write this because I know someone will misinterpret what I say.

I was having a little fun with the quip about comparing some people in this movement with Trump Supporters but I'm almost not joking about making a comparison with gamers gate, there's been a lot of abuse that makes eerie connotations between some people's behaviour online with anti EGS and GG. It just seems at that tipping point.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

This is becoming the new gamergate, we have to stop before it's too late.

Click to shrink...

I'm afraid that it is already too late

Unlike GG, even the most progressive sites like this have been nurturing the idea that EGS is a catastrophe to gaming and developers who accept exclusivity deals are bad for doing so. We are aware of This case in particular, but what else has happened? Well, we don't know and that's the issue. We needed Epic calling people out on their bullshit for a thread like this to be made and even rebooted.

 

[Feep]

Sure strange that he quoted the three people with anime avatars and not all those other people in the room.

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I clicked on the link, and the first three harassing replies I saw chronologically in the reply feed had anime avatars (two were quoted above, one was not).

But, uh, yeah, sure, we have a secret agenda.

 

[bricewgilbert]

Man I got banned for comparing Pokémon fans to Trump Supporters but I may change my stance and get banned for comparing the anti-EGS movement to them instead. ;-p

I've been having literal panic attacks and deleted several posts before I made them in defence of EGS and pointing out the awful unwarranted behaviour of folks here and elsewhere online. I'm more disgusted however by persons on this forum with such behaviour, a forum that allegedly prides itself on being progressive but has now in my eyes muddied its reputation with posts either attacking Epic, the Developers for making a business decision that was right for them or the rabid attacks on others for having a difference of opinion. I tell you a person or a company can be the best in the world until they do one thing that doesn't fit within one's cardboard cutout of one's morality and then suddenly they're worse than Hitler, and suddenly that makes it okay to attack someone or a company just as bad as someone on the opposite side of the spectrum.

Shouting at someone, calling them trash and worse doesn't make you better than them just because one thinks they don't fall exactly within the same perceived moral ground as you, it just makes you as bad as them or worse.

It's fine to criticise and have a debate but things should just get shut down when things get heated.

I'm still having a panic attack as I write this because I know someone will misinterpret what I say.

I was having a little fun with the quip about comparing some people in this movement with Trump Supporters but I'm almost not joking about making a comparison with gamers gate, there's been a lot of abuse that makes eerie connotations between some people's behaviour online with anti EGS and GG. It just seems at that tipping point.

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Was this post written so that it would be impossible to criticize? Very meta.

 

[Pixieking]

Oh, definitely. But it starts with us. We need to make it clear that hate is not welcome.

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I have a had time believing it should start with us, when some pubs and devs are themselves hateful to members of the community (example: anti-trans tweets by CDPR/GOG). The whole industry needs to clean house, and there should be no "starts with" but rather an explicit hand-in-hand repudiation of all forms of hate by media, forums and companies. There should be no place for hate within the industry, whether you be dev, media or consumer. Let's face it - the mealy-mouthed words against GG were never enough, and it's only gotten worse since 2014.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

I have a had time believing it should start with us, when some pubs and devs are themselves hateful to members of the community (example: anti-trans tweets by CDPR/GOG). The whole industry needs to clean house, and there should be no "starts with" but rather an explicit hand-in-hand repudiation of all forms of hate by media, forums and companies. There should be no place for hate within the industry, whether you be dev, media or consumer.

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I still have to see devs and pubs sending death threats you know

 

[Euler.L.]

I clicked on the link, and the first three harassing replies I saw chronologically in the reply feed had anime avatars (two were quoted above, one was not).

But, uh, yeah, sure, we have a secret agenda.

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It's pretty clear what you wanted. Can't wait to see threads on ERA filled with you have an anime avatar, lmao noise because people like think that's a smart observation.

 

[Stop It]

I have a had time believing it should start with us, when some pubs and devs are themselves hateful to members of the community (example: anti-trans tweets by CDPR/GOG). The whole industry needs to clean house, and there should be no "starts with" but rather an explicit hand-in-hand repudiation of all forms of hate by media, forums and companies. There should be no place for hate within the industry, whether you be dev, media or consumer.

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The problem is, that becomes "no, you first" and then the shit continues.

Trust me, I want bigotry especially stamped out of the industry. But apart from calling it out when I see it, I can't control that. At least we as a community can control at least a bit of it and make it clear that hate has no place here.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

Empty Cans rattle the loudest. Fuck me, some of those Twitter replies. Imagine being such pathetic, narcissistic self absorbed assholes.

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But this is the issue I see with the culture that surrounds online message boards, especially in gaming. There's a fine line between coming across as passionate about the games and hobby that you love, and being out right self absorbed and entitled. Unfortunately this happens far too often. It's why I absolutely cannot stand the 'fuck X developer' rhetoric that pops up constantly all over the place.

Sure, spout that sort of stuff when a developer or publisher does something that's ethically wrong like some of the horror stories we've heard from Jason over the past year, or THQ Nordic's 8Chan fuck up, but developers not releasing a game on a platform you prefer or not giving you the 100% best possible product shouldn't warrant the kind of reactions I see in those twitter replies or even here.

That's how toxicity festers and grows. It's absolutely okay to be frustrated but there are ways to vent disappointment without personally attacking studios and companies who, at the end of the day, have actual people just trying to do their job behind them.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

One of the things that stood out to me right away were the accusations thrown at games journalists of being paid off by Epic. That was a major red flag and told me a lot about some of the people who were on this train.

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It's some gamergatesque bullshit that I'm glad the moderation has started dealing with here.

 

[Pixieking]

The problem is, that becomes "no, you first" and then the shit continues.

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Oh for sure. I umm'd-and-ahh'd about posting that, because it does just descend into "No you first!" But Era being pro-LGBTQ and calling out hate hasn't done anything in the wider industry. Has it? So whilst we can and should make it clear dev hate has no place here, I can see little changing in the wider industry.

I should say here that I'm sounding argumentative, and I don't mean to come across like that. I'm just angry that this is just going to be GG all over again - mealy-mouthed words and little action that really changes anything.

 

[Deleted member 20471]

I'm afraid that it is already too late

Unlike GG, even the most progressive sites like this have been nurturing the idea that EGS is a catastrophe to gaming and developers who accept exclusivity deals are bad for doing so. We are aware of This case in particular, but what else has happened? Well, we don't know and that's the issue. We needed Epic calling people out on their bullshit for a thread like this to be made and even rebooted.

Click to shrink...

I wanna believe that it's not too late or, at least, that we can't prevent this to happen again in the future. We must be conscious that now there's no place for a discussion around the EGS policies now (for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted) and work towards creating an environment of welcoming for the devs that take the EGS deal.

 

[Imran]

People keep saying "I can't believe it got this bad" but, like

This EGS shit has always been this bad. It was just ignorable because it was a small but vocal community raging at a corporation and anyone that didn't agree with the small and vocal anger. Now that the target is more adorable and innocent, people are taking notice.

It has in fact been this bad since the beginning.

 

[Deleted member 203]

This abuse is disgusting. It's not even about EGS anymore, it's just an excuse for toxic assholes to attack anyone they perceive as being hostile to gamers or whatever.

 

[Feep]

It's pretty clear what you wanted. Can't wait to see threads on ERA filled with you have an anime avatar, lmao noise because people like think that's a smart observation.

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The hell are you talking about? Me and the other poster didn't *coordinate*. He posted the first three harassing replies he saw. I pointed out a commonality between them.

And if you'd like it spelled out, people invested in tearing down others and showing a noted lack of humanity seem to largely base their personal identities heavily in the gaming and anime spaces. Both have highly toxic elements in play and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. ERA is largely liberal and I don't assume anything about a person from their avatar without further information.

 

[dock]

Imagine trying to explain this drama to normal people.

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I literally had to describe this over breakfast because I slept late last night. I was being pestered by a bad faith actor who kept sharing the fake screens and asking hateful questions.

Sometimes I try to appeal to someone's better nature but when harassment is seen like an extension of the 'defend Steam from attack' game it really isn't worth engaging.

 

[Stop It]

Oh for sure. I umm'd-and-ahh'd about posting that, because it does just descend into "No you first!" But Era being pro-LGBTQ and calling out hate hasn't done anything in the wider industry. Has it? So whilst we can and should make it clear dev hate has no place here, I can see little changing in the wider industry.

I should say here that I'm sounding argumentative, and I don't mean to come across like that. I'm just angry that this is just going to be GG all over again - mealy-mouthed words and little action that really changes anything.

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I know.

It's really frustrating that the smidgen of justification of criticism then becomes cover for people to launch into deeply personal attacks.

Like, the proportional response to the developer here would be to look at their conduct and say "come on mate". If we had a conversation in person at a pub with someone acting like that you'd pull them aside and tell them.

Online the smallest of provocation somehow justifies the most awful response and then things escalate like no other business and there's then no pulling it back.

Would most people actually act in real life how they treat others online when they disagree with someone? I'd really hope not. If not, don't do it online, "justified" or not.

 

[Euler.L.]

The hell are you talking about? Me and the other poster didn't *coordinate*. He posted the first three harassing replies he saw. I pointed out a commonality between them.

And if you'd like it spelled out, people invested in tearing down others and showing a noted lack of humanity seem to largely base their personal identities heavily in the gaming and anime spaces. Both have highly toxic elements in play and it's ludicrous to suggest otherwise. ERA is largely liberal and I don't assume anything about a person from their avatar without further information.

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And despite all that the first thing you did was talking about anime avatars...

 

[Pixieking]

I know.

It's really frustrating that the smidgen of justification of criticism then becomes cover for people to launch into deeply personal attacks.

Like, the proportional response to the developer here would be to look at their conduct and say "come on mate". If we had a conversation in person at a pub with someone acting like that you'd pull them aside and tell them.

Online the smallest of provocation somehow justifies the most awful response and then things escalate like no other business and there's then no pulling it back.

Would most people actually act in real life how they treat others online when they disagree with someone? I'd really hope not. If not, don't do it online, "justified" or not.

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Fucking spot on for the bolded. And for your last point, I think very few would act like they do if they were in the same room as their favourite school teacher, best friend, or their mum and dad.

 

[Instro]

People keep saying "I can't believe it got this bad" but, like

This EGS shit has always been this bad. It was just ignorable because it was a small but vocal community raging at a corporation and anyone that didn't agree with the small and vocal anger. Now that the target is more adorable and innocent, people are taking notice.

It has in fact been this bad since the beginning.

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Yeah the seeds were there from the beginning. Both on here, Twitter, etc., there were already really nasty reactions from the get go directed at devs like SuperGiant for developing an EGS exclusive. The Ooblets stuff really has the full marks of gamergate style harassment though. The social media trolling, pulling screenshots together to rile up others, fabrications, etc. It was getting there for a while with all the social media cross posting going on, blowing up individual tweets, targeting particularly EGS supportive outlets or people, etc., but this most recent event is really the culmination of it all.

I do feel bad for all the folks who have legitimate talking points about the store and what EGS means for PC gaming, and have tried to communicate them in rational ways, but at the same time many of those same people are deflecting or trying to minimize what has been going on, or blame trolls for making things worse, feeling persecuted, etc. There's more constructive ways to go about the discussion without allowing bad actors and bad behavior to take over, which is exactly what has happened over the last several months.

 

[Reinhardt Schneider]

I wanna believe that it's not too late or, at least, that we can't prevent this to happen again in the future. We must be conscious that now there's no place for a discussion around the EGS policies now (for the reasons I stated in the post you quoted) and work towards creating an environment of welcoming for the devs that take the EGS deal.

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I wan to be that optimist too, but let's be real, in the thread opened by BronsonLee there were people literally defending the death threats to users and developers and, unless i missed something (I'll be glad to be told that i'm wrong), nothing was done. Whenever a EGS thread got too violent, a staff post was written and that's it. For too much time the EGS toxicity has been allowed to nurture in this, out of all communities. If you were contrary to that or used arguments akin of "It's just another store" you were treated as an ignorant and corporate bootlicker at best.

or blame trolls for making things worse

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Well, trolls DO make things worse.

All three of them have anime avatars.

Hmmmm.

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For fucks sake not this thing again.

 

[Airbar]

I do feel bad for all the folks who have legitimate talking points about the store and what EGS means for PC gaming, and have tried to communicate them in rational ways, but at the same time many of those same people are deflecting or trying to minimize what has been going on, or blame trolls for making things worse, feeling persecuted, etc. There's more constructive ways to go about the discussion without allowing bad actors and bad behavior to take over, which is exactly what has happened over the last several months.

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Thanks for that!

I just want to play games and not have to worry about them being on the EGS. This harrassment fucking sucks.

Edit: Reinhardt Schneider you don't fight toxicity by being toxic yourself.