Epic’s Statement on Misinformation & Abuse [See Staff Post] [UP: Devs release statement]

[Crayon]

Actually, toxicity in gaming reminds me the one in soccer.

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I was just about to say that gaming has a bigger problem with this than anything, and then I read this and it reminded me.

But I suppose that's soccers problem. We have inhumane mobs in our backyard. And who knows what to do about it? I see something about gaming attracting these maladjusted personalities, and among them the ones that are imminently dangerous.

And of course there is the link with white supremacy. This is incredibly disturbing. I have no idea what to do, but I feel there has to be something effective we can do as a greater community. I guess I should say that I hope.

 

[Brood]

This whole thing is getting absurd.

People are going to have to come to terms with Epic getting exclusives

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stopped particpating in EGS store discussions months ago because people were being a little too zealot with their overreaction. It's crazy that people haven't accepted what EGS is now in the gamer space and moved on. Just fucking move on jesus.

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I got banned once for saying that some people have fucked up priorities for turning 180 on a game (which some literally started crying when it was announced) because it went exclusive to EGS. Heck, the level of vitriol and hatred toward EGS was bound to turn toxic at one because it was given a place to prop and fester. Yes, one poster said, EGS is featureless and terrible compared to the client Steam but harassing devs over it is crossing a red line and it should stop period. Targeted harassment is disgusting. Fucking grow up

 

[Deleted member 6730]

I don't think you watched Jim's video if your claiming people get radicalized from it. That's really not a fair statement I feel given the content of that video. The Radicals come from places like Reddit Communities, 4chan, 8chan and yes some of the more extreme YouTubers like for example 'The Quartering'. Places in which the communities are allowed to use violent speech and encourage each other and no one gets called out for it.

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You read my post and yet you still think I'm saying that Jim Sterling is personally turning kids alt-right. At least not miss the actual point next time.

 

[True Prophecy]

You read my post and yet you still think I'm saying that Jim Sterling is personally turning kids alt-right. At least not miss the actual point next time.

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You said he was fanning flames? And he didn't put them in a shitty light he was reporting on what happened. Anyway, this isn't the thread for this clearly.

 

[m_dorian]

Death threats and harassment are horrific, and no one deserves to get that no matter what they've said.

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Agree. No harassment and/or death threats helps, that's not the way to do it.

 

[Isilia]

There is no ",but..."

Nothing condones this behavior.

 

[kiguel182]

It's a good statement. Very different from the tone of Sweeny.

Regardless of what I think of the store and how the Ooblet devs handled things, harassment is never justified. Never.

 

[jaymzi]

This whole EGS vs steam thing has made console wars seem like child's play.

I'm pretty damn surprised.

 

[Nooblet]

It's something I've been wondering. Do you guys think it'd help if Valve were to come out and take a stand against the toxicity and abuse that this entire thing has been breeding?
Now before anyone says something along the lines of it's not Valve's responsibility or that the games are not on steam, think about this, steam forums are being used as a breeding ground for this toxicity as well. Additionally I'd like to think that they'd care about developers being abused in general over this whole ordeal.

 

[newmoneytrash]

there is no defence for abusing devs for choosing one storefront over another. this forum has been as bad as anywhere else when it comes to this and it's been truly disgusting

 

[Lothars]

Nobody deserves to be harassed or threatened, it's not acceptable at all.

 

[RecRoulette]

I've been following the development of this title for quite a long time and genuinely fuck anyone who sent those wonderful people threats and harassment over which store a dev is using to sell their game.

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Jesus christ, that's fucking terrible

 

[VariantX]

If you feel like harassing people.

No.

Stop.

You're about to engage in trashman behavior. There are NO grounds for you to act like garbage and threaten people. Any excuse you give yourself to engage in that behavior is just mental gymnastics.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you wanna do that, you don't belong on this board.

 

[DR2K]

If you feel like harassing people.

No.

Stop.

You're about to engage in trashman behavior. There are NO grounds for you to act like garbage and threaten people. Any excuse you give yourself to engage in that behavior is just mental gymnastics.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you wanna do that, you don't belong on this board.

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You don't belong in fucking society if your reaction is to behave like that over an shop to buy a video game.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

If you feel like harassing people.

No.

Stop.

You're about to engage in trashman behavior. There are NO grounds for you to act like garbage and threaten people. Any excuse you give yourself to engage in that behavior is just mental gymnastics.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if you wanna do that, you don't belong on this board.

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the sociopaths that do these things aren't here to read your post. their finding people who group-think like they do and looking for tools to carry out their campaigns. makes them feel powerful.

 

[VariantX]

You don't belong in fucking society if your reaction is to behave like that over an shop to buy a video game.

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That goes without saying.

 

[headspawn]

The coordinated harassment of devs on social media (including Discord and Reddit), on top of the creation and promotion of fake materials to gain momentum among the passer-bys, is disturbing. It is even more troublesome as the people engaging in these awful actions have likely never had any intent of purchasing the game at all: they are jumping on the harassment train for the sake of being mean and abusive to the devs, whom they consider easy targets.

It is important to have in mind what the game looks like. It is a peaceful game, there is no way it attracts toxic customers who would try to bully devs.

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So much this.

I've been following this game since MS helped bullhorn their game and their twitter has almost always been happy and supportive folks all around, the discord had people genuinely interested in the game and it was almost unanimously positive outside the extreme rarity; like literally one of the only pleasant things to look forward to in my twitter feed up until a few days ago.

Just to be blunt about it, the whole disinformation and fake screenshot crap, the racist rhetoric out of nowhere, targeted harassment etc etc... straight gamergater crowd shit tactics. Anyone even somewhat supportive of that just let me know so I can work on my ignore list.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Harrassment and threats are done by garbage people and there should be no place for it here.

 

[Mobyduck]

It's something I've been wondering. Do you guys think it'd help if Valve were to come out and take a stand against the toxicity and abuse that this entire thing has been breeding?
Now before anyone says something along the lines of it's not Valve's responsibility or that the games are not on steam, think about this, steam forums are being used as a breeding ground for this toxicity as well. Additionally I'd like to think that they'd care about developers being abused in general over this whole ordeal.

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I imagine that section of the community will just see this as Valve giving ground to Epic and get angrier. The better anyone can do is try to police each other and call out toxic behaviour.

 

[Deleted member 26746]

ppl harassing devs just 'cause they choosed EGS instead of steam...

Does Valve have said anything to his userbase or have any stance with this? this needs to stop.

 

[excelsiorlef]

the sociopaths that do these things aren't here to read your post. their finding people who group-think like they do and looking for tools to carry out their campaigns. makes them feel powerful.

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Oh I'd bet some absolutely are.

 

[Shard Shinjuku]

ppl harassing devs just 'cause they choosed EGS instead of steam...

Does Valve have said anything to his userbase or have any stance with this? this needs to stop.

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Not sure if we are going to hear from Valve on this subject, they typically have been silent on matters pertaining to EGS outside of Metro Exodus.

 

[.exe]

ppl harassing devs just 'cause they choosed EGS instead of steam...

Does Valve have said anything to his userbase or have any stance with this? this needs to stop.

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You really think they would stop? I don't.

 

[Deleted member 35941]

No one deserves to be treated like this over a business decision. I feel for the devs and hope they can move on from this :-(

 

[Deleted member 56752]

Maybe these losers can focus their efforts on keeping video games away from our government

 

[Iru]

Harassment and death threats are never OK.

I'm shocked and speechless on how much hate the devs received and hope things get better and that they can move on toward better times. :/

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

ppl harassing devs just 'cause they choosed EGS instead of steam...

Does Valve have said anything to his userbase or have any stance with this? this needs to stop.

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...What do you think they should say, exactly?
They aren't the instigators here, and if anything "speaking on behalf of their user base" would only suggest that they think to be, not to mention possibly backfire.

In fact it's not even clear to whom they should speak to, exactly.
It's not like the overwhelming majority of people around are guilty of what a fringe minority did. Unless we aren't deliberately going for yet another completely disingenuous attempt to equate any sort of criticism to "harassment".

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Some context, the Ooblets devs were the target of online hate for their EGS exclusivity announcement:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ul-threatening-messages-over-epic-exclusivity

I checked out their Discord channel a few days ago to see how bad it got in there. What those screencaps of the developers being harsh don't show is that they were spending hours answering a flood of assholes who took the reaction to their blogpost as an excuse to harass them. With them often doing stuff like post racial slurs (spelled out in different messages to avoid filters). More waves of people came in as Youtubers like Jim Sterling and YongYea made videos about the exclusivity announcement.

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Typical. Spend hours trying to reason with people, lose it for one minute and post a frustrated knee-jerk response - get screengrabbed for that and dragged through massively public dirt

 

[ArnoldJRimmer]

It's something I've been wondering. Do you guys think it'd help if Valve were to come out and take a stand against the toxicity and abuse that this entire thing has been breeding?
Now before anyone says something along the lines of it's not Valve's responsibility or that the games are not on steam, think about this, steam forums are being used as a breeding ground for this toxicity as well. Additionally I'd like to think that they'd care about developers being abused in general over this whole ordeal.

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I'm not sure that saying you won't be supporting devs that go EGS exclusive, or following a tracker of EGS exclusive titles to avoid on Steam is "toxic". Are these devs owned a sale or something?

I guess if there's some way to correlate Steam users to abusive behavior towards devs, that would be great, but that looks like a tall order.

 

[funky]

...What do you think they should say, exactly?
They aren't the instigators here, and if anything "speaking on behalf of their user base" would only suggest that they think to be, not to mention possibly backfire.

In fact it's not even clear to whom they should speak to, exactly.
It's not like the overwhelming majority of people around are guilty of what a fringe minority did. Unless we aren't deliberately going for yet another completely disingenuous attempt to equate any sort of criticism to "harassment".

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There is a 40 page thread on the font page of the steam forums that's nothing but Epic and developer bashing and the occasional user trying to calm the mob in vain that's a few weeks active.
They could look into that for a start.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/1643167006291975207/

 

[Braaier]

This really is getting out of hand. Good on epic for making this statement. If you don't want to use EGS then don't. But why some feel the need to harass or make threats is crazy to me.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

There is a 40 page thread on the font page of the steam forums that's nothing but Epic and developer bashing

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So?
Are you suggesting to make "EPIC AND DEV BASHING" illegal or what?
Is unfiltered appreciation the only legitimate sentiment people are allowed to have about the topic, otherwise is "toxicity and harassment"?

 

[Deepwater]

People have been appropriating identity politic rhetoric in order to make a crusade against developers for a LONG time. Going on two years now...

How many posts I see leading posts "as a consumer" as if some people have to crouch their dislike of shopping methods (among other things) as if they were a marginalized group is tiring. Personally. I really don't know what it is but I'd love for it, and the harassment that stems from it, to go away.

 

[ArnoldJRimmer]

There is a 40 page thread on the font page of the steam forums that's nothing but Epic and developer bashing and the occasional user trying to calm the mob in vain that's a few weeks active.
They could look into that for a start.

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/1643167006291975207/

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I'm not goign to read a 153 page Steam forum thread, but glancing around most of the vitriol is aimed squarely at EGS and not specific devs. Again, I'm not sure what is to be done here. Ban any discussion of EGS on the steam forums? That doesn't sound very fair either.

Even if they are targetting the devs in an aggressive way, do they care what is happening in a 153 page Steam forum thread? Maybe help in moderation of the dev's boards might be helpful. Again, I'm not seeing an easy fix.

The main damage I can see being done that Steam can do something about is user review bombs, but they already have measures in place to counteract those.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I haven't followed the full story, but people were harassing developers for choosing EGS exclusivity? That is horrible. Nothing justifies such behaviour.

 

[LifeLine]

Think about all the nasty shit that comes out of "console wars", this has basically introduced a whole new audience to fighting for their brand and of course it's been a complete shit show. Embarrassing showcase from gamers.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I don't even understand what people acting so toxic over these things are trying to accomplish. If I were a developer and saw people acting this way to stories regarding EGS exclusivity, I may have chosen to go with EGS just to spite these people. Aside from being toxic and horrible and possibly even criminal, this kind of behaviour from gaming "fans" seems counterproductive

 

[ArnoldJRimmer]

I don't even understand what people acting so toxic over these things are trying to accomplish. If I were a developer and saw people acting this way i regards to EGS exclusivity, I may have chosen to go with EGS just to spite these people.

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Yeah, this is dumb. Making a business decision to possibly spite some minority of toxic people doesn't sound like a wise thing to do.

Aside from being toxic and horrible and possibly even criminal, this kind of behaviour from gaming "fans" seems counterproductive

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And please be careful about labeling everyone who has an issue with EGS, or an issue with the way the Oooblets developer announced their exclusivity as being toxic.

I'm getting flashbacks tot he Israel discussions.

"Israels continued killing of unarmed Palestinian protestors is-"

"ANTISEMETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


- Not that I'm equating the two things, of course, just illustrating.

 

[Toxi]

The crazy thing is most of this bile is coming from people who were never interested in Ooblets as a game. It's just another opportunity in their "war".

In the past creators just had to care about what their audience thought. But now we have developers being harassed and bullied by people outside their audience.

 

[chainlinkspiral]

Yeah, this is dumb. Making a business decision to possibly spite some minority of toxic people doesn't sound like a wise thing to do.



And please be careful about labeling everyone who has an issue with EGS, or an issue with the way the Oooblets developer announced their exclusivity as being toxic.

I'm getting flashbacks tot he Israel discussions.

"Israels continued killing of unarmed Palestinian protestors is-"

"ANTISEMETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


- Not that I'm equating the two things, of course, just illustrating.

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By all means illustrate more, please. Because, of course, you aren't equating.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Yeah, this is dumb. Making a business decision to possibly spite some minority of toxic people doesn't sound like a wise thing to do.

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If I were a developer, seeing this kind of thing happening to colleagues would induce an emotional reaction. In such situations, one may not be prone to making rational business decisions

And please be careful about labeling everyone who has an issue with EGS, or an issue with the way the Oooblets developer announced their exclusivity as being toxic.

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I was only referring to people actually being toxic. People who threaten, harass and craft misinformation. I don't understand why you would take issue with my comment if you didn't engage in those behaviours. If you weren't, my comment was not addressed at you.

(the Israel-Palestine comparison is just dumb. I won't even respond to it.)

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

I'm glad that Epic explicitly came out with this statement. The threats and harassment make me sick to my stomach. I've completely lost touch with today's internet world.

 

[ArnoldJRimmer]

By all means illustrate more, please. Because, of course, you aren't equating.

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You think I'm really trying to draw parallels to the treatment Palestinian people by the Apartheid regime of Israel to the "plight" of gamers and EGS? Really?

Anyone can see that my point is the dismissal tactic of some Pro Israeli people on the topic. ANY criticism of Israel is dismissed as being antisemitic. This is a tried and true tactic of a lot of groups. Wait until they can find a group of idiots taking things too far and then use that as a way to deflect valid criticism.

Oh, those guys don't like EGS due to their confrontational stance towards consumers, their history of dismissing PC gamers as pirates, their encroachment on what used to be a pretty open platform, their lack of a long term plan as a PC game market place - for example stating that their 12% cut is NOT sustainable, stating that they don't consider PC gamers to be a 1st, 2nd or 3rd priority, putting out a road map that they seem intent on not keeping up with? TOXIC STEAM GAMERS.

So I'm drawing parallels to this tactic, not comparing the EGS issue to Israel. Israel just came to mind as an example. I thought that we be obvious to anyone...

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

There is a 40 page thread on the font page of the steam forums that's nothing but Epic and developer bashing and the occasional user trying to calm the mob in vain that's a few weeks active.

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It's not illegal to bash Epic. lol Steam should only intervene if people are posting death threats and what not. No one is required to like Epic and their exclusivity deals.

 

[CenaToon]

I wonder how many of the people that is harassing the devs would ACTUALLY bought Ooblets on steam. Probably less than 10%

Like one poster said, we are reaching Soccer fans' level.

This is unacceptable. Hope devs can hang in there fine.

 

[chainlinkspiral]

You think I'm really trying to draw parallels to the treatment Palestinian people by the Apartheid regime of Israel to the "plight" of gamers and EGS? Really?

Anyone can see that my point is the dismissal tactic of some Pro Israeli people on the topic. ANY criticism of Israel is dismissed as being antisemitic. This is a tried and true tactic of a lot of groups.

So I'm drawing parallels to this tactic, not comparing the EGS issue to Israel. Israel just came to mind as an example. I thought that we be obvious to anyone...

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Anyone can see why you felt the need to bring it up, perhaps. Also, using anyone as a rhetoric is generally a losing tactic. Seldom is anyone in understanding or agreement about anything. If you are referring to yourself, use I.

 

[Oreiller]

How sad is it that Epic had to put a statement against this kind of stuff? Hope the devs will weather this though, Ooblets looks like a delight.

 

[Geoff]

Not 100% what has happened here because the OP is terrible but it sounds awful. Screenshots of the game look interesting though. So many bans
...

 

[adj_noun]

Some context, the Ooblets devs were the target of online hate for their EGS exclusivity announcement:

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...ul-threatening-messages-over-epic-exclusivity

I checked out their Discord channel a few days ago to see how bad it got in there. What those screencaps of the developers being harsh don't show is that they were spending hours answering a flood of assholes who took the reaction to their blogpost as an excuse to harass them. With them often doing stuff like post racial slurs (spelled out in different messages to avoid filters). More waves of people came in as Youtubers like Jim Sterling and YongYea made videos about the exclusivity announcement.

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This should probably be in the OP.

 

[ArnoldJRimmer]

Anyone can see why you felt the need to bring it up, perhaps. Also, using anyone as a rhetoric is generally a losing tactic. Seldom is anyone in understanding or agreement about anything. If you are referring to yourself, use I.

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It's just nicer than saying that anyone with any sort of reading comprehension skills would have understood. Even with my horrible typing skillz.