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Oct 28, 2017
2,965
If you've followed reports from the production side of GoT, you've probably heard that the original pilot... wasn't great. In fact, aside from a few scenes it ended up being reshot completely.
Now journalist James Hibberd (who's done a lot of behind the scenes reporting on the show) has a book coming out. And the excerpt over at EW is all about the pilot nobody's seen. Thought there were quite a few interesting bits.

Below is the first excerpt from the upcoming oral history Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Untold Story of the Epic Series. The book (coming Oct. 6 and available for preorder now) represents the first-ever behind-the-scenes account of making Thrones from start to finish. It's an uncensored look inside the 15-year battle to pull off the show – from its earliest meetings to the airing of its final season – and is largely told from the perspective of the show's creators, cast, crew and executives.

The following picks up midway through the original pilot's production in 2009. First-time showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss had struggled for four years to get their fantasy series off the ground. There had been an endless number of meetings, rewrites, negotiations and hiring decisions. "It was a frightening time because it was our first time running a production of any scale," Weiss recalls. "And there are many, many moving parts, human and otherwise, that go into any production, especially one of this size."

EW: Inside Game of Thrones' disastrous original pilot: 'Nobody knew what they were doing'

George R R Martin on Daenerys' and Khal Drogo's wedding night scene and differences to the book:
GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: There are a couple of stories. As a wedding gift, Khal Drogo gives Daenerys a silver horse and she rides away. For a moment you think she's fleeing. Then she turns the horse around and leaps the horse over a big campfire. Drogo is very impressed, and it starts the relationship on a good note. We tried to film this scene. We got a top stunt rider and a top horse, a silver filly, but the filly would not jump that campfire. She got close and then was like, "There's fire there!" and would turn the other way. We tried to film it a half dozen ways. So [director Tom McCarthy] goes, "Put out the fire and we'll do the fire with CGI." They put out the fire and the horse would still not jump the dead fire. It's a smart horse. It knows it's not burning now, but it was burning a little while ago! So they had to scrap that sequence, which was unfortunate, as it was a bonding moment between Dany and Khal Drogo.

Then came the filming of the wedding night. In the Emilia Clarke version, it's rape. It's not rape in my book, and it's not rape in the scene as we filmed it with Tamzin Merchant. It's a seduction. Dany and Drogo don't have the same language. Dany is a little scared but also a little excited, and Drogo is being more considerate. The only words he knows are "yes" or "no." Originally it was a fairly faithful version.

So we're by this little brook. They tied the horses to the trees and there's a seduction scene by the stream. Jason Momoa and Tamzin are naked and "having sex." And suddenly the video guy starts to laugh. The silver filly was not a filly at all. It was a colt. And it was getting visibly excited by watching these two humans. There's this horse in the background with this enormous horse schlong. So that didn't go well either.


Also D&D originally wanted to cut Rickon
GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: The biggest thing was Dan and David called me up and had the idea of eliminating Rickon, the youngest of the Stark children, because he didn't do much in the first book. I said I had important plans for him, so they kept him.


The pilot didn't look right:
MICHAEL LOMBARDO (former HBO programming president): There were some concerns about whether we were getting enough wide shots. Are we getting the coverage we need? We hired the best costume designer and the best art director and shot this in Northern Ireland and Morocco, yet there was very little scope. I remember the quote was, "We could have shot this in Burbank."

IAIN GLEN: Some bigwig at HBO said, "Why the f--- did we go to Morocco? You can't see f---ing diddly squat, we could have shot it in a car park!"

GINA BALIAN: Somebody said, "It looked like it was shot in my backyard."

The tone also felt off, like a series set in the world of Downton Abbey or a Merchant Ivory film, instead of Westeros and Essos.

MICHAEL LOMBARDO: Some scenes were fantastic, like at Winterfell with the family. Arya, Sansa, Tyrion. But there was something about it that felt vaguely similar to British period dramas.


Other problems:
MARK ADDY (Robert Baratheon): We were trying to establish the rules and order of this new world. In the Winterfell courtyard scene, nobody kneeled when the king arrived in the first pilot. You can't play being the king. You can't display "look at how powerful I am." People have to give you that by showing subservience. It has to be afforded to you by others. In the reshoot, everybody kneeled. It made a huge difference in terms of establishing who's in charge.

Another concern was caused by hand‑wringing over the project's fantasy elements. A Song of Ice and Fire is an intensely realistic drama with moments of supernatural magic. But nobody was exactly sure how much Thrones should have of each genre, and it showed.

BRYAN COGMAN: Is it fantasy with dramatic trappings? Is it a drama with fantasy trappings? There was a nervousness about the pilot leaning into the fantasy too much — ultimately to a fault. Key exposition was cut to make the dialogue sound more "real," and as a result, the pilot didn't make much sense. The impulse to not be over-the-top Shakespearian and Tolkien-esque was right — you're trying to make it as grounded as possible — but this is still an epic fantasy, and if you ignore that, it's to the detriment of your story.

One confusing aspect wasn't entirely the filmmakers' fault — they couldn't afford to stage any King's Landing scenes which more firmly established the Lannister family in the re‑shoot. But the dialogue didn't help either. The shocking punch of Jaime pushing Bran out the window seemed nonsensical, as viewers didn't realize that Jaime and Cersei were sibling lovers trying to protect their treasonous secret. The producers tried to help explain the show's backstory by adding at least one flashback (of Ned Stark's father and brother being killed by the Mad King), but that idea was later scrapped as it just seemed to add to the narrative muddiness.


Why HBO still greenlit the show:
MICHAEL LOMBARDO: We were in the conference room and had the producers in for a "come to Jesus" meeting. The question was whether the showrunners thought they nailed it. Because if you're on a different page, that's really a concern. How do we show this pilot to our CEO and convince him to pick this up to series? How do we convince him this is a gamble worth taking? We go into a mode of "how do we fix this."

DAN WEISS: We'd done a lot of soul searching. The one thing I think we did right is we owned all the mistakes. We didn't point fingers. We said: "We know this isn't good, and here is what went wrong and how we would do it differently the next time." We just went down the line. I think they got the sense, which was honest, that we weren't coming in trying to explain why the bugs were features. We were all on the same page that where we want to be is many levels up from this.

CAROLYN STRAUSS (former programming president at HBO; executive producer): There was a lot of begging and pleading. I think what was clearly evident was that there was a show here. This is why you do a pilot, because you're looking at what works and what doesn't and whether this thing has legs. Once certain things were fixed, this would be a story you can tell over many episodes that keeps moving, with characters that keep evolving, but not so fast that you run out of story.

On why Catelyn and Daenerys were recast
MICHAEL LOMBARDO: The actress who played Catelyn decided she didn't want to move to Northern Ireland. I'm like, "What?" Then you have a conversation with yourself about whether to force her to uphold her contract. In retrospect it was one of the best things that could have happened. Michelle Fairley took over the role and was fantastic.

Benioff had spotted Fairley in a London production of Othello, where she played Emilia, whose tragic final scenes of breakdown and murder are not unlike the eventual fate of Catelyn Stark. "Emilia's not a character I generally notice in Othello," Benioff recounted in Cogman's book Inside HBO's Game of Thrones: Seasons 1 & 2. "Iago's wife? Who cares? But Michelle was so absurdly good that I left the theater thinking, 'Who the hell was that? And is she available?' "

But the team's most difficult decision was to recast Daenerys Targaryen. One source said that breaking the news to Merchant was "the hardest phone call [the producers] ever had to make."

MICHAEL LOMBARDO: There was a piece of casting we had to rethink, [a role] that was compromised. We all knew Daenerys's journey was critical. Her scenes with Jason just didn't work.

JASON MOMOA (Khal Drogo): [Merchant] was great. I'm not sure why everything was done. But when Emilia got there that's when everything clicked for me. I wasn't really "there" until she arrived.

BRYAN COGMAN: Everybody involved in making the original pilot scored such a bull's‑eye with so many of our actors. I thought Tamzin did a really good job. It's hard to say why things didn't work out. Ultimately, it's obvious Emilia Clarke was born to play that part.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
Interesting! Thanks for sharing. I hope one day the pilot leaks and we can all watch it for ourselves.

but really screw the pilot tell me about the bts drama of the final seasons
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,052
Having seen her in other works, I'm sorry, but Tamzin Merchant is a far, FAR better actress than Clarke. Still baffled as to why she was replaced...
 

BradleyLove

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,464
Up until season 7 I used to without question recommended GoT to anyone and everyone. Now I tell folks not to bother.

I don't have a particular issue with how GoT ended, more how the ending was told. All those years and hours of investment for a piss-poor payoff.

I'd love to learn what drove 7 & 8 to be so poorly written and presented—lack of source material aside.
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
I'd love to watch this. But if it's as bad as they say, it'll probably never see the light of day.
 

golem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,878
TV productions always seem like a precarious endeavor to kick off so its not like this story is particularly shocking

Since this is the "official behind the scenes" book I don't really expect a thorough examination of what actually went wrong (the later seasons)
 

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,734
The Negative Zone
Really interesting, thanks for posting!

My one question after reading this is why the Drogo/Dany wedding night is made a pretty disturbing rape?? It wasn't in the original pilot and it's not in the text either, so...what the heck? Kind of an open question left hanging over GRRM's comments in this article
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,627
It's easy to talk about a bad thing you eventually nailed. I want to know the nitty gritty about the final season(s), but I'm sure the official behind-the-scenes book won't go into that.

And yeah, Tamzin Merchant is just a way better actress than Emilia Clarke. Of course I don't know why these choices are made, but that's one baffling recast.
 

Meows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,399
Jennifer Ehle was the original Catelyn Stark, iirc, and she would have done a great job. I suppose it is for the best that she decided it wouldn't work for her as Michelle Fairley was wonderful.
 

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
4,861
This is nice, but also like six years too late?

I'd love to read a deep dive into the final season, honestly. Man what a train wreck.
 

Lothar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,533
Really interesting, thanks for posting!

My one question after reading this is why the Drogo/Dany wedding night is made a pretty disturbing rape?? It wasn't in the original pilot and it's not in the text either, so...what the heck? Kind of an open question left hanging over GRRM's comments in this article

This was a 13 year old sold to warlord against her will in the book. The show was actually a lot better here for not trying to portray it as love. GRRM is really an idiot to say it's not rape in his book.
 
OP
OP
Glasgow Mega-Snake
Oct 28, 2017
2,965
This is nice, but also like six years too late?

I'd love to read a deep dive into the final season, honestly. Man what a train wreck.

Well this is just a preview, the blurb of the book does promise "exclusive insight into the show's divisive final season", whatever that means

I doubt we'll get anything too juicy, people probably don't want to burn too many bridges, and HBO doesn't want negative GoT buzz with the prequel coming. But we'll see
 

peppersky

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
1,174
This is nice, but also like six years too late?

I'd love to read a deep dive into the final season, honestly. Man what a train wreck.
I really don't think there is much to talk about there. D+D just handed in an absolutely terrible script and they were way past the point where anyone could say anything against them.
 

HMD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,300
This is nice, but also like six years too late?

I'd love to read a deep dive into the final season, honestly. Man what a train wreck.

The acting, the fight scenes, the CGI, etc... were all top notch. The script is where everything went wrong, and to get a deep dive on that we might have to wait for the series' 10th anniversary when royalties dry up and people start to talk.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,869
The acting, the fight scenes, the CGI, etc... were all top notch. The script is where everything went wrong, and to get a deep dive on that we might have to wait for the series' 10th anniversary when royalties dry up and people start to talk.

"Some" fight scenes were top notch. Many are just plain bad. The Tower of Joy flashback, the Brienne/Sandor duel, the Snakes... To just point some of the clear worst.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Pretty interesting. Might give this a read when it comes out.

Not sure why GRRM feels the need to clarify that selling a 13 year old into sexual slavery isn't rape though.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,301
Scotland
I rewatched the first episode and it's surprisingly obvious where they've re-used footage from the original pilot - from the locations to the costumes/hair. It was shot on film as well IIRC and it "looks" quite different in places.

Fun-fact: while Scotland was used in places for "The North" and Winterfell in the original pilot, the lack of proper big production facilities here meant that NI was clearly going to be where the actual series was filmed - in the decade since then the government and creative sector have been scrambling to resolve this.
 
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The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Just a toxic cocktail of no source material to pull from, the pressure of sticking the landing to the finale of the biggest show of the century, and having one eye constantly on their next project.
I thought they had an outline from GRRM, I guess like Bran becomes King, Dany burns down KL, Jon returns to the watch. But they probably would have been more successful if they just did a more generic blockbuster like Battle of the Bastards, and Cersei is killed in a more theatrical way, like Jaime kills her, to stop her using wildfire, or Dany dies in a heroic sacrifice.
 

theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
My crystal ball for a few years from now...

Entertainment Weekly - Inside Game of Thrones' disastrous final season: 'Nobody knew what they were doing'
 

Deleted member 27246

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
3,066
My crystal ball for a few years from now...

Entertainment Weekly - Inside Game of Thrones' disastrous final season: 'Nobody knew what they were doing'

Lol I actually thought this thread was about that. I didn't read the title properly....all I saw was Game of thrones, disastrous and 'Nobody knew what they were doing' and I assumed it was about the final season
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Kind of fitting how the finale screwed the pooch then. It's like poetry. It rhymes.

For all that people made fun of that petition to remake season 8, it really could use a do-over by competent writers.

Just have the White Walkers murder everyone, and finish on a shot of the empty Iron Throne covered in snow. Easy.

Lol I actually thought this thread was about that. I didn't read the title properly....all I saw was Game of thrones, disastrous and 'Nobody knew what they were doing' and I assumed it was about the final season
Same, lol.
 

Niosai

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,925
I'd love to watch this. But if it's as bad as they say, it'll probably never see the light of day.
I am being completely serious when I say: Watch the first 6 seasons. Then do 1 of 3 things: Read a synopsis of the last 2 seasons, then wait for the next book. Or, read fan-made endings. Or just wait for the book. Honestly, season 7 isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Season 8, though, I can't defend at all. It's clear the writers were just too much in a hurry to make their Star Wars stuff.
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
So we're by this little brook. They tied the horses to the trees and there's a seduction scene by the stream. Jason Momoa and Tamzin are naked and "having sex." And suddenly the video guy starts to laugh. The silver filly was not a filly at all. It was a colt. And it was getting visibly excited by watching these two humans. There's this horse in the background with this enormous horse schlong. So that didn't go well eithe
Lmfao
 

DeathyBoy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,430
Under my Hela Hela
Kind of fitting how the finale screwed the pooch then. It's like poetry. It rhymes.

For all that people made fun of that petition to remake season 8, it really could use a do-over by competent writers.

Just have the White Walkers murder everyone, and finish on a shot of the empty Iron Throne covered in snow. Easy.


Same, lol.

People made fun of the petition because it was impractical on a dozen different levels, and even if they could get the actors back and the crew and the directors and the sets and get a good budget... you're still running off the same hymn sheet. The genie is out of the bottle, you can't put it back inside and expect a better genie to emerge.
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
its nice when a show is able to come full circle
 
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Sesha

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,828
Kind of fitting how the finale screwed the pooch then. It's like poetry. It rhymes.

For all that people made fun of that petition to remake season 8, it really could use a do-over by competent writers.

Just have the White Walkers murder everyone, and finish on a shot of the empty Iron Throne covered in snow. Easy.


Same, lol.

The petition was just clown shoes, even if the sentiment was somewhat understandable. "Simply" remaking the final season is too trivial to bother, and there was no fixing the show by just remaking the final season anyway. The only way to fix the show is to remake it one or more decades from from now using the (hopefully) finished books.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
We all knew what's up with the original pilot...this is not new news...

Now I want to know what happened to the disastrous final episode (& season).
 

Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,093
Then came the filming of the wedding night. In the Emilia Clarke version, it's rape. It's not rape in my book, and it's not rape in the scene as we filmed it with Tamzin Merchant. It's a seduction. Dany and Drogo don't have the same language. Dany is a little scared but also a little excited, and Drogo is being more considerate. The only words he knows are "yes" or "no." Originally it was a fairly faithful version.

Using the words like "seduction" and "excited" to describe the forced marriage and subsequent rape of a child bride to a warlord is fucking disgusting.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Using the words like "seduction" and "excited" to describe the forced marriage and subsequent rape of a child bride to a warlord is fucking disgusting.

I have strong feelings about how this goes in the book. It absolutely is a forced marriage. But there is a subversion of expectations in that Drogo treats her as well as he can given that, after she's been abused by her brother her whole life And that informs Dani's character henceforth. In the show, there's no reason for her not to be bitter and traumatized by that act. She has no reason to have loyalty to the clan or to become the reformer she tries to be.

You can be critical of the notion in the first place, but D&D played it for torture porn rather than how GRRM played against expectations and made it about how Drogo was the first man to treat Dani well, and set the stage for her to start emancipating slaves. (There's a huge White Savior problem here, but that's a different matter.)