Engadget - 'GTA V' brings transphobia to the next console generation

[Beth Cyra]

Why do people have to defend this shit?

Isnt it enough that this shit exists? Like really there is zero justifiable reason you can give to defend it even if you enjoy this crass garbage.

It's one thing for Rockstar to treat my community like this, but it's wholly different from people who are hear amongst us to some how defend it and act like it's okay.

Transphobic? Well I don't like you, but just at least recognize when shit is transphobic and don't pretend it's not.

 

[Memory Pak]

Thanks for posting this article, OP. Insightful read. I've not played GTA 5 (or any of the GTA games the past ~15 years), so had not realised how overt and pervasive its transphobic content was.

GTAV is a longterm service title in the perfect position to see this kind of content addressed. This is something everyone, especially fans of the game, should be for.

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You raise a good and practical point: if GTA 5 wants to be a live-service game (as it clearly wants to be), they could presumably change these scenes, or edit them out entirely. They hardly sound consequential to the plot. But the (decision makers among the) developers choose not to alter these scenes -- all of which were purposefully built at one point. People had to sit down and design these character models and signs, write these dialogue lines and record them.
Kinda speaks volumes why they choose to keep these elements in the game.

In the quote below (link here) Rockstar's co-founder, who left the company earlier this year, seemed somewhat aware their approach to satire was outdated. (Although employing a false dichotomy argument, while simultaneously sort of implying he's somehow observing from a less biased, more neutral position).

Dan Houser is "thankful" he's not releasing Grand Theft Auto 6 in the age of Trump. "It's really unclear what we would even do with it, let alone how upset people would get with whatever we did," says the co-founder of Rockstar Games. "Both intense liberal progression and intense conservatism are both very militant, and very angry. It is scary but it's also strange, and yet both of them seem occasionally to veer towards the absurd. It's hard to satirise for those reasons. Some of the stuff you see is straightforwardly beyond satire. It would be out of date within two minutes, everything is changing so fast."

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[Deleted member 4532]

Everyone's progressive on this forum until they like something or someone and then it's "let me tell you why it's the exception"

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The sad truth

 

[stefanomusilli96]

GTA "satire" have been getting worse and worse the more they make games in the series.

They need to tone it down cause it is not funny.

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I despise GTA's attempts at satire. It's literally always some variation of "Hello, I'm Billy the racist. Here I'm gonna spell out why my point of view is wrong while my tone of voice is making it sound like I'm endorsing it". Nobody talks like that and it infuriates me. It's the easiest type of "comedy" you can possibly make.

 

[ThatMeanScene]

It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

www.buzzfeed.com

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I've never seen this before - haven't played the game - holy shit what the fuck

 

[Deleted member 1003]

GTA has always been a left leaning satirical game that aims to mock the worst faults of America and American society/culture.

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The mocking falls flat when the satire is more real than ever. The game is not as funny as it wants to be. The transphobia was bad then and even worse now.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

www.buzzfeed.com

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The comments on that BuzzFeed article are just, Jesus Christ.

 

[pjl93]

wow that is pretty awful its a shame this never gained traction it should've been patched out years ago

 

[Aswitch]

It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

www.buzzfeed.com

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Goodness. Didn't even realize these were in the game. Yeah these are definitely in horrible taste even for gta's standards.

 

[mreddie]

Half of these jokes should be patched out but I know they won't.

Almost billions of dollars and the transphobic jokes still haven't been edited out because THE PC CULTURE but they can add a fucking Casino

 

[Khanimus]

It seems like this game's defenders have a real fucking skewed idea of what a "joke" is or how satire works.

The game brazenly including transphobic shit isn't satire. It's not using that to twist an ironic knife into our view of reality... it's just transphobia. There is no intent. It's lame shitty shock value, and its fans are just going to laugh along with the mockery. Fucking Adam Sandler movies have more comedic intent than this shit.

 

[Infcabbage]

Half of these jokes should be patched out but I know they won't.

Almost billions of dollars and the transphobic jokes still haven't been edited out because THE PC CULTURE but they can add a fucking Casino

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Sony and MS need to take a hard-line of not allowing games with this type of content on theirs platforms unless the content is removed. But we know they won't because $$$, and then they'll make some cute post on social media about acceptance or some shit. Really, at this point its the only thing that would take for devs, pubs, and gamers to get the message that this shit is not acceptable and extremely damaging to the people who actually have to live with racism and transphobia every day.

But even after all of that, it's not enough if we continue defend or at best dismiss this kind of content on places like this very forum. I'm so frustrated and exhausted from seeing this shit.

 

[Blackthorn]

I just love that South Park humour.

Spoiler

I do not love that South Park humour.

GTAIV gave me hope that Rockstar was moving in a more sincere direction but GTAV presented such a deeply ugly world view that I had to force myself to finish it.

Their brand of shotgun satire where everyone is exhaustingly awful is dreadful even within its own intended goals and it certainly, unequivocally does not excuse transphobia.

I'm genuinely astonished that these same people were behind a game with as much heart and compassion for its characters and world as RDR2.

 

[JDSN]

I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."

I do think the actual trans NPCs could be represented in the world a bit better but at the same time, this is a world where EVERYONE is portrayed poorly. Cops, citizens, etc etc. They're not really singling any one out.

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In which internet hellhole was this new talking point spawned on? Ive seen it used twice this week.

 

[Nida]

Uhh... these aren't even jokes. It's just using a slur and expecting a laugh.

Like if that sign said any other slur I don't think people would defend it.

These would be so easy to remove and nothing of value would be lost. In fact, it would be a net positive.

 

[texhnolyze]

Wow.. TIL.

I've only played the game for a few hours so I never knew this. Absolute garbage.

What a headline...jesus christ!

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What a headline indeed.

 

[Paine]

I hadn't even noticed any of those in both of my playthroughs. I also feel like there's a very small chance they'll do anything to rectify it any time soon, nor even for the rerelease. The Faggio shit needs to go too.

 

[Mekanos]

 

[Deleted member 4034]

It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

www.buzzfeed.com

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Huh ... Never noticed any of that in my playthrough or heard about it prior until now. Yeah, that's pretty bad.

 

[ItIsOkBro]

there is quite literally zero reason to defend this. i take it that many have played and even enjoyed GTA V. in that case shouldn't your response be to expect better from rockstar, not excuse them?

 

[Deleted member 4532]

Somebody actually said it would be satire if people hid in their homes because black men were approaching. Wow.

 

[TacomaSCDisaster]

Yeah GTA needs a host of new writers for it's next entry. Satire is supposed to like, say something meaningful. Making fun of everyone doesn't work when everyone isn't on the same playing field societally. It's something South Park has failed to understand for decades and GTA has the same failings.

The culture has changed. They need to change as well.

 

[Lant_War]

GTA.

Is not.

Satire.

Satire doesn't punch down, it punches up. It mocks the system, not the oppressed. GTA just reproduced shitty transphobic jokes for edgy shock factor. If it was ever satire, it sure as shit hasn't been for a long time. Not 4, and definitely not 5. It's written by a bunch of old white dudes.

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Even if you count punching down as satire, what would the gay bar sign or the ad in the truck be satirizing? What are they criticizing there? That's just straight up mocking, not satire.

 

[Rotobit]

Also, in response to the people saying that the transphobic shit in GTA V is "satire" (it's not) - even if that were true, do you really think the 14 year old boys playing this game are going to see this content, these transphobic jokes, and think "ah, what a clever satire of America's transphobic culture?" No, they're going to think "Haha trans people are gross and it's funny to belittle and murder them."

There's no excuse for this stuff.

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This has always been the problem with GTA/South Park/Family Guy and other media products that are similarly bad at getting across satire

It's ignorant to believe teenagers aren't the biggest audience for these properties and, as a teen back in the day, I vividly remember every single one of them missing the point, every time.

I don't want to be all "won't somebody think of the children" but Rockstar and co. really need to acknowledge the fact their audience isn't media--and-culture-savvy adults.

 

[Scherzo]

The sad truth

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You'd think people would learn to accept they have a 'problematic fave' and move on.

 

[Deleted member 42484]

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest Rockstar remove/alter the game's transphobia for a re-release.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

GTA's 'satire' has always been extremely lazy, punching down, garbage humor. Rockstar seemingly has no understanding that simply replicating the thing they are trying to satirize in game and going "look!" isn't fucking satire.

There is no message, there is no point being made. It's just replicating bigotry and punching down for the sake of it.

 

[Biggersmaller]

That was an interesting piece. Point well made. I unapologetically enjoy offensive comedy and this series clearly utilizes satire to magnify the absurdity of American pop culture to often hilarious effect. However, the GTA trans "jokes" never fit any comedy mold I'm familiar with. This type of played out broad insulting mockery has no place in this century and to cling to it only delays progress. To remove the jokes would only improve the series.

Could a comedy on that topic possibly work? Of course! But there is a massive difference between satire and when it's clear someone is simply beating an underrepresented culture of people into the dirt while labeling it comedy.

 

[Alastor3]

wow that thread was a ban wagon

 

[FloofyMoofys]

whts with all the losers showing their asses lately

 

[endlessflood]

FWIW, the latest GTA Online update added a character (Wendy) who runs your arcade. Hardly momentous, but as a character she gives me some hope that the next GTA game will be better.

 

[Rockets]

First few responses on the first page are absolutely disgusting

 

[caff!!!]

GTAV was on the very trail end of letting transphobia slide, among being written for and by edgy 15 year olds who chug South Park. I sadly doubt it will be removed as it's not something for GTAO hackers to spend their billions on or buy shark cards for.

I remember the PS2 era games being less angsty edge but I'm sure if I look back at them I'll be disappointed

 

[vaderise]

I only completed GTA V once but never witnessed any interaction with trans characters. Yet after reading the article posted, this is some horrible shit: unfunny, stereotypical and borderline offensive jokes. They need to get rid of these Asap. Just patch it out.

 

[vaderise]

First few responses on the first page are absolutely disgusting

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lol @ calling this "satire".

Characters shouting:
"LOOK HOW UGLY TRANS PEOPLE ARE LOOKING IN THIS GAME, AND SOME OF THEM HAVE PENISES"

This is not satire, this is some pre-high school low as shit attempt at humour.

 

[apocat]

Why do people have to defend this shit?

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They don't. Which can only mean they want to defend it, which is much worse.

 

[Rockets]

lol @ calling this "satire".

Characters shouting:
"LOOK HOW UGLY TRANS PEOPLE ARE LOOKING IN THIS GAME, AND SOME OF THEM HAVE PENISES"

This is not satire, this is some pre-high school low as shit attempt at humour.

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The humor is fucking depraved for sure. The fact that rockstar thinks they can port that garbage in 2021 completely untouched after all the shit the trans community has had to go through these past few years speaks volumes

 

[Jonnax]

The humor is fucking depraved for sure. The fact that rockstar thinks they can port that garbage in 2021 completely untouched after all the shit the trans community has had to go through these past few years speaks volumes

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There is a significant anti-trans agenda in the UK.
Trans-exclusionary feminism is popular and mainstream.

For such an offensive game I'm not going to assume the best of the creators, Take-Two Interactive might be the ones that force it if there's enough backlash.

 

[Unaha-Closp]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Like most people (white cishet) when something that doesn't affect me personally is going on I don't see it. Just cruise right past and go on my way. Just like I wouldn't know about JK Rowling being a hateful bigot as I don't swim in Harry Potter or Trans Issues areas so it just passes me by. Played GTAV twice through and recall no transphobia at all as I wasn't looking for it or having the capacity to see it. Ignorance is not an excuse, however. They deserve the heat this, hopefully, brings them. I fucking love GTA but hateful shit has no place in it.

 

[Fliesen]

The comments on that BuzzFeed article are just, Jesus Christ.

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But the comments are merely satire!

 

[¡ B 0 0 P !]

To be honest I never enjoyed the worldview of GTA. Everyone and everything is apparently awful in America according to these games. When in reality most people are nice and not everything is shit.

It's hard to call GTA 'satire' when the message is essentially all Americans are stupid assholes and America sucks. What are people supposed to take from that?

It's no wonder Rockstar refuses to do a GTA in any other country, let alone their home country of the UK. The amount of controversy they'd have to deal with if they took the GTA worldview and applied it to say London or Dubai would be huge.

 

[Kemono]

You'd think people would learn to accept they have a 'problematic fave' and move on.

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Most simply don't see it that way. For every user out there capable and willing to explain to them why this isn't ok there're hundreds of thousands who'll pat them on the back and laugh along with them.

You can't even have this kind of discussion in most places.

We can only hope that Rockstar has changed over the last years. There's at least a chance that they'll change their ways a tiny bit. When even South Park and Family Guy can accept they did wrong in the past i really, really hope Rockstar can too.

 

[Minky]

I somehow didn't see any of this shit at the time, Jesus. That's revolting.

 

[KingParappa]

Of course the comments under the article are terrible. They are all from 6 years ago. smh

 

[Kthulhu]

I guess it's been awhile or maybe I just didn't explore the world that much, but I didn't remember any transphobic stuff until now. That BuzzFeed article was a pretty big eye opener.

Since it's not part of the main story I think it'd be relatively easy to patch out, no? Change the signage and remove the voice lines/character models and I doubt most people would even notice.

 

[Sylmaron]

Yeah GTA needs a host of new writers for it's next entry. Satire is supposed to like, say something meaningful. Making fun of everyone doesn't work when everyone isn't on the same playing field societally. It's something South Park has failed to understand for decades and GTA has the same failings.

The culture has changed. They need to change as well.

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I don't see how meaningful satire is ever going to work to be honest. It's true gays and trans people were always to be the easy ones to make fun of (I'm gay myself) but I would also hate to be excluded altogether in future when everyone else gets the satire treatment. I'd rather have outrage when a developer is going too far than everyone in the industry walking on eggshells.

 

[Kthulhu]

I don't see how meaningful satire is ever going to work to be honest. It's true gays and trans people were always to be the easy ones to make fun of (I'm gay myself) but I would also hate to be excluded altogether in future when everyone else gets the satire treatment. I'd rather have outrage when a developer is going too far than everyone in the industry walking on eggshells.

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You can be satirical or comedic without being hateful though. That episode of the Boondocks about R. Kelly is amazing satire of some people's reaction to his allegations. It probably helps that it was written by black people and not just some random person. R* could hire some trans writers and probably do something similar.

 

[R.I.P]

It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

www.buzzfeed.com

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Only played through GTAV once when it came out and didn't remember any of this but wow, that is some absolutely vile garbage. Wasn't interested in the re-release anyway but I will not be buying any Rockstar games in the future if they have shit like this.

 

[Nikus]

Holy shit those screenshots.
Yeah that's not satire.

 

[Fisty]

I thought it was just GTAO making the next gen jump? Is the full campaign being ported, or just BC?

Also, big yikes at those examples. "Satire" at the expense of marginalized groups isn't satire