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DOA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
481
'GTA V' brings transphobia to the next console generation

www.buzzfeed.com

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

Grand Theft Auto V is due to hit its third console generation next year, complete with "technical improvements, visual upgrades and performance enhancements to take full advantage of the latest hardware," according to developers at Rockstar Games. GTA V launched in 2013 on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3, and since then it's also come to Xbox One, PS4 and PC. GTA V is the home of Grand Theft Auto Online, a living world that's kept the title at the top of monthly US video game sales charts for seven years running.

On June 11th, Sony opened its first PS5 summer showcase with the news that GTA V was heading to the next generation of video game consoles -- presumably with its scenes starring trans people unedited. Rockstar didn't respond to multiple requests for comment, but the studio released GTA V in 2013, 2014 and 2015 with all of its original scenes intact, and it hasn't indicated plans to change anything in 2021.

Regardless, the conversation around transgender rights, visibility and violence has changed significantly in the past seven years.

"If GTA V were a game coming out in 2020 for the first time, and it contained those kinds of stereotypical or harmful representations, a lot of people would be criticizing it for those representations," said Carolyn Petit, a former GameSpot editor and Feminist Frequency managing editor, who's currently a freelance games writer.

Petit reviewed GTA V for GameSpot in 2013, and she's been on the forefront of social conversations within the video game industry for just as long. Back when GTA V launched, a few critics called out its transphobic scenes, but the conversation didn't gain mainstream traction. Nowadays, after years of political maneuvering around transgender rights, relentless activism campaigns and celebrity input, GTA V's depiction of trans women would likely be a main topic of discussion.

"What I felt when I played the game in 2013 was a lot of internal conflict between my admiration for the game's scope and for its craft and for its systems, and my awareness that there were elements of it that would allow those who come to the game with a hatred of women or other marginalized people to really indulge in that hatred as a violent power fantasy," she said. "That was a scary realization to have."

GTA V transforms a real-world violent epidemic into a joke, at best.

"I think there's a huge responsibility on all games, all types of media, to not rely on lazy stereotypes," said Dr. Ben Colliver, a lecturer in criminology at Birmingham City University. "In the Grand Theft Auto series, a lot of the stereotypes to me seem to be there just for comedic effect. They're just there so that trans people and LGBT people more broadly are a joke."

Dr. Colliver is the author of "Representation of LGBTQ Communities in the Grand Theft Auto Series," which will be a chapter in Video Games, Crime and Next-gen Deviance: Reorienting the Debate, a free ebook that launches for Kindle on July 3rd. He's tracked transphobic instances throughout the Grand Theft Auto series and has found a few recurring themes. Rockstar regularly presents trans women in particular as overtly masculine, with chest hair and deep voices. Their dialogue is focused on sex, surgery or deception.

"It just reinforces this idea that you can always tell who's trans and who's not, and that trans women will always be that slightly bit masculine," Dr. Colliver said. "It has all of these stereotypes. They talk to real-life problems, but they don't do it in a way that tackles problems. They do it in a way that just reinforces that trans people are somehow less than everyone else."
 
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MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,934
I kinda wish R* would drop the mob stories pretense and create a cartoon game world where anything can happen. That way they can remove anything resembling real life controversies and revel in its own.

They want to be James Bond x Terminator x TRON anyways
 

ASleepingMonkey

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
4,496
Iowa
User Banned (1 month): Advocating for portrayals of transphobic abuse in-game
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."

I do think the actual trans NPCs could be represented in the world a bit better but at the same time, this is a world where EVERYONE is portrayed poorly. Cops, citizens, etc etc. They're not really singling any one out.
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory commentary
GTA has always been a left leaning satirical game that aims to mock the worst faults of America and American society/culture.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Can someone remind me where the transphobic scenes are? I don't recall anyway, I also want to echo that GTA has always walked that fine line of satire. The universe is suppose to be a satirical representation of America. The characters are shitty criminals. They act like it too.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,251
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."
It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

www.buzzfeed.com

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

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Goodbye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
User Banned (4 Months): Dismissing transphobia
Well, GTA V is one of the most played games EVER so I think nobody cares. Makes me wonder about criticism on videogames. Is it just a vocal minority that is too fragile for jokes? Or is the majority of the population ignorant?

I don't know anymore.
 

Infinite Ukemi

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
658
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic.
GTA has always been a left leaning satirical game that aims to mock the worst faults of America and American society/culture.

Ah, so it's okay that we get to be the punchline in both Rightwing and Leftist satire!
 
Feb 6, 2019
468
Ah, so it's okay that we get to be the punchline in both Rightwing and Leftist satire!

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's not making fun of transgendered people, it's supposed to be insulting and mocking transphobic people.

So like, a GTA that took place in Mississippi having a character that waves the confederate flag and attends KKK meetings wouldn't mean the game supported racism, it would mean the game is making fun of the south being so racist.
 

ElephantShell

10,000,000
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,909
It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

www.buzzfeed.com

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

enhanced-buzz-11986-1380755325-9.jpg


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Damn I don't think I picked up on any of this when I played the game years ago.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,576
sadly the game has made more money than god so i honestly think they going to push everything even further in gta6 sadly
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,272
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."

The major problem with that however is that your breakdown is one that comes before a mature developed human being.

That's not who's playing games or being exposed to problematic content. Often times we see shit indoctrinate or even supplement those with already shitty world views and they glean excitement from it rather than any introspection or overt criticism.

We have 100s of examples of art that takes a questionable portrayal or sends a specific message that gets totally lost in translation with the audience.

To me it breaks down in a few ways:

1. Gaming is nowhere close to being the medium for thought provoking commentary on subjects. The audience is filled with knuckle draggers, it's a waste of effort and message

2. Any commentary on bigotry that doesn't outright condemn it is essentially condoning such behavior specifically due to lack of comprehension from the audience

3. Creators should ought to consider wether it's even a worthy avenue to make commentary thru art that isn't explicit. People are completely fucking dumb nowadays thanks to the internet and can't spend 1 second to think for themselves without being spoon fed an entire thought processes
 

Deleted member 64002

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2020
813
As a trans woman who played 5 yeah I can confirm they treated trans characters shittilly it makes me feel I'll having to see all the shitty takes on what people think trans people are. The games industry needs to diversify and open it's doors to minority's and women no questions.
Edit: also stop fucking caping for these devs just because the games supposed to be satire. Shitty representation is shitty representation no excuses. Y'all transphobic as fuck.
 
OP
OP
DOA

DOA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
481
Well, GTA V is one of the most played games EVER so I think nobody cares. Makes me wonder about criticism on videogames. Is it just a vocal minority that is too fragile for jokes? Or is the majority of the population ignorant?

I don't know anymore.

the moment you wrote "nobody cares" you lost the post. because, as you can see, there are people who care
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,164
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's not making fun of transgendered people, it's supposed to be insulting and mocking transphobic people.

So like, a GTA that took place in Mississippi having a character that waves the confederate flag and attends KKK meetings wouldn't mean the game supported racism, it would mean the game is making fun of the south being so racist.

This all looks like mocking transgender (NOT TRANSGENDERED) folks.

It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

www.buzzfeed.com

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

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enhanced-buzz-7658-1380757634-36.jpg
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affeinvasion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
GTA does not work as satire except on the most basic level and it's why Red Dead Redemption has more stylistic and narrative continuity. GTA franchise would be so much better if they dropped the juvenile puns everywhere.
 

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's not making fun of transgendered people, it's supposed to be insulting and mocking transphobic people.

So like, a GTA that took place in Mississippi having a character that waves the confederate flag and attends KKK meetings wouldn't mean the game supported racism, it would mean the game is making fun of the south being so racist.

Half the jokes don't even have transphobic people in them. They're just "Trannies Welcome!' which just exist for you to mock trans people while throwing out slurs for the viewer to laugh at
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,289
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's not making fun of transgendered people, it's supposed to be insulting and mocking transphobic people.

So like, a GTA that took place in Mississippi having a character that waves the confederate flag and attends KKK meetings wouldn't mean the game supported racism, it would mean the game is making fun of the south being so racist.
That's like saying that this scene is just making fun of people who hate feminism, or was interpreted that way by the majority of players.




GTAV's brand of satire, ESPECIALLY when it comes to execution, is incredibly poor.
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."

I do think the actual trans NPCs could be represented in the world a bit better but at the same time, this is a world where EVERYONE is portrayed poorly. Cops, citizens, etc etc. They're not really singling any one out.

I see this as a defense for South Park too and I just don't buy it. There are too many people who are going to take this shit as face value unless you have a positive representation in the game. And Rockstar can't even put a female main character in any of their GTA games. We can shit on these companies for toothless representation but Rockstar can't even do that. I admit I really don't like Rockstar's games and the messages of their games so perhaps that just colors my perceptions to the point where I'm too critical. But for the biggest video game franchise to continue to be resistant to change just kinda sucks.
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,934
It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.
Not just that, but the game allows the user to target women or minority NPCs if they wish. The game itself doesn't actually tell the person to do the targeting- it just lets them.

Rampaging is the game's appeal, and the ways it can be skewed probably magnify that appeal, if anything.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Can someone remind me where the transphobic scenes are? I don't recall anyway, I also want to echo that GTA has always walked that fine line of satire. The universe is suppose to be a satirical representation of America. The characters are shitty criminals. They act like it too.
It's not that the pro(or an)tagonists are transphobic.
The argument being made is that the game is transphobic - in a way where transpeople are added as throwaway side-characters used for a cheap joke.

www.buzzfeed.com

Grand Theft Auto V Is Just As Transphobic As You'd Expect

<b>The video game's awful depiction of women is notorious, but that doesn't make the latest installment's transphobic jokes any less unsettling.</b> Trigger warning.

enhanced-buzz-11986-1380755325-9.jpg


enhanced-buzz-26801-1380757086-46.jpg


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Thanks for the examples.

Yeah these likely wouldn't fly as well in 2020. It's one thing to have transphobic characters and companies in the game universe. That makes sense. But these are clearly making fun of trans people. It's that "edgy" humor that may have been seen in the mainstream 10 years ago but is no longer.
 

Majora's Mask

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,558
Well, GTA V is one of the most played games EVER so I think nobody cares. Makes me wonder about criticism on videogames. Is it just a vocal minority that is too fragile for jokes? Or is the majority of the population ignorant?

I don't know anymore.
Dismissing this as "Who cares" kind of thing doesn't help the Trans community as it removes visibility on an issue that is prevalent in this and other industries. But I assume you already know this and just want to throw your shitty hot take take in here.
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,081
Yeah, that should in no way be acceptable in 2020, or at any point in time earlier than that tbh. By showing transphobic people as normal and turning trans people into jokes you are reinforcing bad stereotypes. It does not matter if it's true that people also suck in real life and not just in games. Media should not contribute to making that normal.
 
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Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
From what I've seen, it seems there to mock America's transphobic culture.

I didn't like the game BTW.

It's not mocking the culture at all to have a big sign saying "Trannies welcome!" with people with full beards in dresses right in front of it. That's just normal transphobia that is thrown at us by bigots on all sides
 

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."

I do think the actual trans NPCs could be represented in the world a bit better but at the same time, this is a world where EVERYONE is portrayed poorly. Cops, citizens, etc etc. They're not really singling any one out.

I see this as a defense for South Park too and I just don't buy it. There are too many people who are going to take this shit as face value unless you have a positive representation in the game. And Rockstar can't even put a female main character in any of their GTA games. We can shit on these companies for toothless representation but Rockstar can't even do that. I admit I really don't like Rockstar's games and the messages of their games so perhaps that just colors my perceptions to the point where I'm too critical. But for the biggest video game franchise to continue to be resistant to change just kinda sucks.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. It's not making fun of transgendered people, it's supposed to be insulting and mocking transphobic people.

So like, a GTA that took place in Mississippi having a character that waves the confederate flag and attends KKK meetings wouldn't mean the game supported racism, it would mean the game is making fun of the south being so racist.

Not transgendered, transgender or trans afaik.

Well, GTA V is one of the most played games EVER so I think nobody cares. Makes me wonder about criticism on videogames. Is it just a vocal minority that is too fragile for jokes? Or is the majority of the population ignorant?

I don't know anymore.

I'd say the majority of people are bigoted when it comes to trans folk yes. It is still one of the most common forms of bigotry that is acceptable by wider society. To the point where there is a whole branch of "feminism" that excludes trans people.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
Well, GTA V is one of the most played games EVER so I think nobody cares. Makes me wonder about criticism on videogames. Is it just a vocal minority that is too fragile for jokes? Or is the majority of the population ignorant?

I don't know anymore.
I'm gonna throw out a limb and assume you're not the marginalized crowd this is punching down at when you're calling the ones criticizing elements like this "too fragile for jokes" and possibly enjoy a life where you don't have your mere existence threatened on a routine basis.
 

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
39,143
GTA "satire" have been getting worse and worse the more they make games in the series.

They need to tone it down cause it is not funny.
 

Robin

Restless Insomniac
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,502
I mean, the game is portraying bad people. Grand Theft Auto has always been that. Rockstar has shown with Red Dead they create likable, morally ambiguous characters so it's not like this is some oversight. I just don't think murderers and thieves are going to draw the line at being transphobic. It would be a bit more jarring if Michael, a boomer-type horrible man, was just like "Oh sorry, I didn't mean to misgender you." That's not him. You're supposed to go "Jesus, this guy's an asshole."

I do think the actual trans NPCs could be represented in the world a bit better but at the same time, this is a world where EVERYONE is portrayed poorly. Cops, citizens, etc etc. They're not really singling any one out.

Not this argument again.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,498
Cape Cod, MA
People act like alternative comedy hasn't been a clear movement since around 1980.

If the whole joke is 'har har har a man in a dress' not only is it transphobic, it's been done a million times, it isn't saying anything new. It's a tired bigoted joke.

If you're desperate to hold onto something like that, ask yourself why a tired bigoted joke is so important to you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,877
GTA's South Park-level "we can say what we want because we're just oh-so-cynical" satire is, uh, terrible. Those games are super-poorly written.

It's weird that RDR 2, which has its problems, has actual round characters. They might try that with GTA someday.

Like, I enjoy SA's BET-movie-of-the-week level story, but GTA in general has like zero to say even though it thinks that it does. And what's the point of the stuff pointed out in the OP? What is it satirizing, exactly? The nature of being trans? Does that need to be satirized here in the Year of our Lord 2020?

(Though I wouldn't call any of that "satire" so much as I'd call it "edgelord lame jokes that the writers think are really daring.")
 

Terra Torment

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
840
Well, GTA V is one of the most played games EVER so I think nobody cares. Makes me wonder about criticism on videogames. Is it just a vocal minority that is too fragile for jokes? Or is the majority of the population ignorant?

I don't know anymore.
I was complaining about it 2013 and I am complaining about it now. We shouldn't be the butt of a joke. I thought we were past this.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
If the so-called "Satire" (and I say that word with as many finger quotes as I possible can) is indistinguishable from actual transphobia, then it fails at satire.

It's shameful some posts here trying to excuse tranpshobia, though given past threads it's not that much of a surprise.