OP, if your German ancestors fled Nazi Germany, you can obtain German citizenship. From there you can settle in any EU country (Including Germany if you so like) and vote in German and EU elections.
Brighter future than Israel, imo.
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Emigrate to Israel [see staff post]
- Thread starter Deleted member 9838
- Start date
Brighter future than Israel, imo.
the best way to get into Canada is too apply for a job and try to get sponsored for a work permit.
unemployment is low. So there are many career fields that need filling up.
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not sure how you got that from that post. a jewish person emigrating to israel, an apartheid state that's nice to it's jewish population but oppressive towards it's arabic population (and the palestinians) is pretty much the same as a white person emigrating to south africa during the apartheid where white people and black people weren't treated the same and black people were considered lower class citizens and were oppressed.
i don't know how you got "jews aren't white" from that
I think you're really reading to much onto that. He said "white person" to show that it's about the group benefiting from the situation. I doubt he meant "unlike OP". How would you have phrased it?
"It's like OP traveling back in time and asking if emigrating to Apartheid South Africa is a good idea."?
Depends on the type of Jewish. Reformed Jews get an incredibly bad rep out there.
Not at all what I meant?? I was drawing a comparison to how South Africa gave a preferential treatment to whites while oppressing the Bantus. Israel gives a preferential treatment to Jews while oppressing Palestinians.
not only palestinians, the government is very racist when it comes to their own arab citizens as well. a quick google search will lead you to many news articles of them not so subtly showing their different treatment of their jewish and arab population
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https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...lls-for-arab-boycott-after-protests-1.5628215
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/17/binyamin-netanyahu-israel-arab-election
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So does Spain, but OP is Ashkenazi, not Sephardic (Sephardic are the Spanish Jews, there were lots of them because they were expelled from everywhere and many went to Spain and Portugal, from where they were dramatically expelled in 1492 and 1497, respectively. The Sephardic Jews were Spaniards and Portuguese, spoke the language, (And many still do to this day) and most moved to the north of Africa and some to the Ottoman Empire, and stayed there basically until Israel was founded.
So most probably, OP has few, or untraceable Sephardic ties. Furthermore, it's kinda hard to prove the Sephardic ties, at least in Spain. The Jewish organization that does it requires lots of paperwork and proof. I know because my GF is a Sephardic Jew from Mexico/the US and she gave up because there was too much work involved.
OP's best bet is Germany, imo.
I've had some family, and many friends move to Israel. Some went on Birthright, came back and were immideatly making plans to move there.
Everyone I've spoke to who has lived there basically calls it the best time of their life.
I've never been, and not sure I will, but the praise has me curious.
It's weird how people are ignoring the question, and suggesting other places. What does Israel have that Canada doesn't? How about the weather and beaches?
What are all these other places lacking that Israel has? They're not the Jewish homeland.
Everyone I've spoke to who has lived there basically calls it the best time of their life.
I've never been, and not sure I will, but the praise has me curious.
It's weird how people are ignoring the question, and suggesting other places. What does Israel have that Canada doesn't? How about the weather and beaches?
What are all these other places lacking that Israel has? They're not the Jewish homeland.
Really, you're suggestions are to avoid his homeland, and instead go to the country that expelled his people, or the country that tried to wipe them off the planet?
I wonder if you'll show the same positive feelings to Israel in the future?
But OP could regain German citizenship and then live in Spain lol.
OP, come to Spain. You'll be welcome here. The weather is kinda like in Israel and there's plenty of Jewish and Arab history here, just like in Israel. We also have good food.
Come on, don't do this. Don't equate the Federal Republic of Germany with Nazi Germany. That's just offensive.
User was Warned: Thread Derailing
i think you're ignoring the
op would be emigrating to an apartheid state. and all this talk of the homeland is complete bs, but i don't want to start it cuz it won't end soon and would derail the thread.
OP's homeland is the United States. Afaik, they don't speak Hebrew, have no familial ties to Israel, and the reasons for moving are (From what I see) avoiding the horrible public policy of the US. (Healthcare seems to be the main reason) From a non-Zionist point of view, which OP has not expressed in this thread, I don't see how talking about other very real possibilities of countries more free and democratic than Israel, with less racist bullshit, with better economies and not in the brink of a self inflicted civil war is speaking in bad faith.
it's just such a childish view to
a, consider israel the homeland to all jewish people and
b, say someone should go there because it's their homeland
the fact that your far far ancestors may or may not have lived somewhere is absolutely no reason why you should move there.
Why not move there for a while to make sure you actually like it before committing to getting citizenship?
i think you're ignoring the
op would be emigrating to an apartheid state. and all this talk of the homeland is complete bs, but i don't want to start it cuz it won't end soon and would derail the thread.
No. They are just ignoring you and everyone else's attempt to strongly derail the thread and not answer the OP.
This too.
Go make your own anti-Israel post and stop derailing legitimate ones.
any my suggestion is to not move to an apartheid country that's responsible for many people's suffering.
ok.
You get citizenship to Israel just for being a Jew. As this thread states, everything is better for Jews in Israel. It's our Homeland.i think you're ignoring the
op would be emigrating to an apartheid state. and all this talk of the homeland is complete bs, but i don't want to start it cuz it won't end soon and would derail the thread.
Op's first point is about Jewish heritage, so that is clearly a key issue to him.
makes no sense really to call somewhere your homeland just because they're willing to give you citizenship, that's not the definition of a homeland. this is my last post in this thread tho cuz apparently i'm derailing it.
I may have to move out there for about 9 months because my gf got into rabbinical school (reform) and 9 months in Israel is required for her. While I love to travel, it definitely doesn't feel right. As a jewish man it implies a lot of things if I go, whether or not I actually believe those things. There's no reason for me not to go as far as my current life position, though, since I'm doing an online masters at the moment.
I personally would never move there permanently in the current political climate, OP.
I personally would never move there permanently in the current political climate, OP.
the perks, the flexibility, the choice.
as a dual citizen myself who barely lived in my birth country; it does have its own perks and some of those perks are pretty awesome for the future.
me, I have access to the EU job market. Even though I never worked there; the option is there for me for the future just in case.
But that's the whole basis on which this aparthied state was creates.
Imma quote OP:
OP's worries are not going to prison for smoking a joint, having access to decent healthcare, and living in a modern country. Because OP is a Jew, Israel is an option. Because OP is Ashkenazi, the EU also happens to be a potential option!
Since OP asked for practical advice (Not ethnonationalistic mumbo-jumbo about ancient homelands and shit) we are giving practical advice.
the fact your family was from Germany before WW2 doesn't mean you get automatically get citizenship, part of my family was from Germany but at the time they moved there from Austria, so they had no German citizenship before they fled the country.
neither Austria nor Germany would give me citizenship.
Wish you guys would stop saying this as it makes no sense. People go where they want to live for various reasons. I plan to move to North Carolina for awhile before going back to VA, Doesn't mean I support the Republican BS there.
Are you aware of the Israeli government atrocities? If you are ok with that than go ahead. But a semi decent person wouldn't.
So we acting like Jewish people who want to leave for Israel are bad people who are going to vote Bibi?
How many of you want more immigrants so the Republican party can become obsolete? How is this not the same?
How many of you want more immigrants so the Republican party can become obsolete? How is this not the same?
His first sentence is about Jews, he asks about Israel, and mentions no other countries. Since you're not Jewish, and know nothing about what it's like for a Jew living in Israel, I have no clue what you're doing here other than derailing?
I did find another benefit to living in Israel, Widdle. You probably won't have to deal with thinly veiled anti-semitism all the time, or have people popping up to tell you how awful the Jewish homeland is.
Yes because no one can move and support the liberal parties in Israel and cause meaningful change.
That's NEVER happened before.
So where do you live and what are you doing to make sure your taxes don't go to the unpleasant parts?
First you call present-day Germany the country that tried to wipe Jews off the planet, and now the people voicing their opinions about the country Israel are anti-semites? You're a bit extreme.
Also, people are telling someone talking about the details of moving to a place that they think the person should not move to that place. Instead of just doing that, though, they offer alternatives, trying to be productive and on topic. How is that derailing?
How is antisemitism explaining the ways European countries are trying to make up for their past atrocities, and inviting a Jew to live in our country?
And again, maybe not all Jews agree with Israel being their homeland or the homeland of all Jews. In fact, that's the position of modern white nationalists and fascists.
I have nothing against Israel, but I do have a lot against its policy and against ethnonationalism.
I think it's funny that I'm the only person moderated in a thread about Israel, and I hadn't even gone into politics.
Aside from that, nobody even answered my question.
Edit: 'only person' factually accurate at time of writing
Aside from that, nobody even answered my question.
Edit: 'only person' factually accurate at time of writing
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I mean regardless of their feelings about the Israeli state moving there and supplying it with tax is indeed part of supporting that state.
Nah, it's not problematic at all. It's an analogy my guy. You can say it's not a good one, but that doesn't make it problematic. Also for my biweekly reminder that analogies aren't one to one statements of equivalency. That would be an identity statement, not an analogy.
No it's not, because that's not relevant to the scope of the analogy. Moreover Jews are not necessarily white, as in not all Jewish people are white which is a pretty relevant fact given some of the policies of the nation in question, and even if they were calling someone not white isn't an issue. How non white people are treated is the problem.
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Yeah, on top of that a person can be considered blameless about their government's policies if they were born in the state, it is difficult to be so understanding about somebody with the foreknowledge of how the county is an apartheid state and shrugging off that fact just because they benefit form it due to their ancestry.
Certainly one can look at it from the perspective of "I'm looking out for number one", but that is only a slightly less contemptible POV.
Politics and terrorism aside, if you live in a Meditteranean European country, you'll have an easier time adjusting to Israel.
Not just the climate, the people's mentality is closer to it too. This is one reason immigrants from Western Europe and North America struggle to cope with, compared to the other nationalities or minorities living there.Pace of life is so different in Eastern Meditteranean as opposed to Germany or the UK.
Also learning Hebrew and Arabic is a difficult task.
Not just the climate, the people's mentality is closer to it too. This is one reason immigrants from Western Europe and North America struggle to cope with, compared to the other nationalities or minorities living there.Pace of life is so different in Eastern Meditteranean as opposed to Germany or the UK.
Also learning Hebrew and Arabic is a difficult task.
First, I did not call anyone in this thread an anti-semite. I just answered his question about living in Israel.
He asked if anyone with a Jewish background has done it. Do you have a Jewish background? I doubt it.
What Israel is doing does not compare to what Germany or Spain did. Yes things have changed, but only after atrocities were committed. When Israel has finished securing the Jewish state, their policies will change too. Will you be so quick to call out anyone who brings up its past?
Now please let the conversation return to what the OP asked about, and not your political beliefs.
It's weird how people in this thread think "politics" can totally disentangled from other aspects of life, but in most other threads people repeat over and over again that such a thing is not possible. Ultimately someone's thoughts about moving to a country are going to have "political" influences.
Not everything is better for Jews in Israel. Tell contentious objectors jailed for refusing to serve that they are better off in Israel than elsewhere.
Lots of people are probably better off, but weird mythologizing like this doesn't help anyone.
Not everything is better for Jews in Israel. Tell contentious objectors jailed for refusing to serve that they are better off in Israel than elsewhere.
Lots of people are probably better off, but weird mythologizing like this doesn't help anyone.
What exactly do you mean by finished securing the Jewish State?
We live in the present and it isn't a given that things will improve. The state of Israel has only gotten worse over the years, and it is showing no signs of changing.
Also an apartheid state is security at a grave cost to others. Those "others" have as much right to reside in that land as the Israelis. Even there "security" is arguable, oppression only channels people into destructive solutions
E: holy shit, I've only just noticed "Jewish state".
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Yeah that's some pretty interesting wording to say the least....
I don't like the GOP, but that's a pretty bad comparison. The US state is on the whole deeply flawed and has a lot of endemic problems with racism, but it is not even approaching being an apartheid state in 2018. You can argue Israel isn't, but I think it's much harder to argue that it's not closer to being one.
Also, regardless of someone's reasons for undertaking an action, that action might have effects that should be considered.
Genuine question: So you weren't referring to anything in this thread when you wrote
?
Because to me, it seemed very much like a reaction. If not, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Question 1: No. It's also not relevant to anything I posted.
Question 2: I guess so? I'm not sure in what context this would happen, but I would assume the answer is yes. Let me ask a question in return: Do you honestly think calling 2018 Germany "the country that tried to wipe out the jews" is acceptable?
And about your final line... my political beliefs haven't entered this thread at all. Bu sure, I'm done, I still hope you'll answer my questions here.
not sure why i got a warning, this thread was about giving reasons and advice why someone should or should not emigrate to israel. many, including me, mentioned one of the most important reason why one shouldn't do it. yes it is political but are we not allowed to talk about politics?
two people called my posts derailment, and one of them, Jag hasn't contributed to the thread at all other than pointing out my posts as derailment. is that reason enough to get a warning?
two people called my posts derailment, and one of them, Jag hasn't contributed to the thread at all other than pointing out my posts as derailment. is that reason enough to get a warning?
Most people don't get to choose where they live and that includes me. So I don't see how knowing where I live is relevant to the discussion. The op shows that he has the ability to do so and he is willing to move to a new country. If I were the op I would consider countries with fair immigration policy and also great foreign policy in general. A fair government that treats all it's citizens with dignity is a good start. I don't need to mention anything about Israeli government and what they are doing as it's clear from a simple Google search. My conscious would never let me move there.