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Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,592
I think it's hilarious that particular users in this thread (not going to quote to start fights or dogpiling) were active weeks ago in saying the game should not have an easy mode option because "that's not the game they want to make, they have a balanced difficulty curve".

Now that some weapons, ashes, etc., are more in line with how they wanted them, that's a problem because "I should have that option to go against their intended difficulty curve".

I can only speak for myself but Elden Ring made me realize just how unfun summoning actually is as someone who never used it before. When like half the bosses are "balanced" around using your summon or being able to inflict some status ailment to trivialize them it isn't as fun personally as when you can fight them one-on-one and feel like you got a fair fight learning their patterns and reacting to them.

So yeah, fuck From's intended difficulty if it's not going to be fun anymore. And this is coming from someone who thinks Sekiro probably had their best boss lineup due to everything being balanced around a specific playstyle.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
Making the game better would've been raising up other options to make them competitive vs. just making shit worse.
They did both, and good balance requires both. This should not be your or anyone else's first rodeo with balance passes. Why are y'all acting like this is so out of left field?

Aw shucks, the build I watched on the YouTube video "NIGHT AND FLAME IS ABSOLUTELY BROKEN!!!11!" got nerfed to just be really good instead of an instant boss nuke. If only there were other examples of devs (hell, of FROM) nerfing clearly overtuned items and abilities in games to have helped me predict that this could happen
 

Anastasis

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,603
I was away for 3 days and just started the process to get Mimic Ash Tears to defeat the final boss when I was sent back to the title screen for the update. Oh well, I felt a little scummy cheesing it anyways. Any good ash alternative for an astrologer?
 

jefjay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,111
Everyone's talking about nurfs. So I take that to mean the performance improvements are minor? I'm mainly wondering if I can move from the PS4 version to the PS5 version...
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,459
Yeah the should have. But they didn't because they are not perfect developers.

Thankfully well live in 2022 were patches are common so they can go back and fix mistakes.

I just don't understand how people can be mad at attempting to make something better.

It doesn't seem universally better though. Like I get all benefits and zero negatives from this patch. But I can understand why some players may feel the opposite.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,959
Lol. My thoughts exactly.

Like what's the fun in being able to streamroll the game because of an OP move? Hell, I've been trying to cut myself back because I feel I'm over leveled to where the game expects me.
Some people like that. I don't understand why people get angry or bothered at others playing a single player game how they want? The game does ramp up the bullshit as you progress and some folks want a strong response to that, in order to keep the game fun for themselves.
 

Rocketz

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,907
Metro Detroit
I was going to respec and go into a new weapon but since I'm on vacation starting Saturday, maybe I'll keep running winged scythe for a couple nights and wait out what to run next when I get back.

Still think I'm going Sword of N+F.
 

benj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,833
This is my first FromSoft game, so I built my first character off the Sword of Night and Flame utterly and completely so I could have a easier time with the game.

Now that the sword has been heavily nerfed it doesn't seem to be worth it anymore, at least from what I've tried out after the patch. 40% damage reduction and double the FP use. I get that it was broken, but it made the game a little more doable for me as a beginner. The game was still tough, but I liked how the sword evened the odds a bit.

Any recommendations for other strong weapons that are a little more noob friendly and didn't get nerfed?
Sincerely: I'd play with weapons you have, see what movesets and playstyles you like, experiment a bit, and build a plan from there. if you didn't have access to the internet and other people's minmaxing, I can guarantee you the ideas you'd develop yourself about what's strong and what's not would bear little resemblance to the goofy consensuses that the "community" always falls into. every weapon in this game is viable and strong.

if you're still learning the ropes with melee combat, I'd start with something that has long reach and a pretty quick attack, since it helps you avoid punishment and keep your distance. I'd also avoid boss weapons since swapping ashes is a big, fun part of the game that they don't have access to. something like the great estoc, a rapier, a pike, a good twinblade, a scythe, all great options for starting out with

also, remember that you don't need to commit to one weapon! the game gives you lots of weapons and lots of mats, and it's easy to keep multiple weapons upgraded to your current highest level at once. build a whole toolkit for yourself
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,665
To people who no longer find the build optimal, they want their mats to go another direction. It's a perfectly fair thing. If they feel their build is gone then thats fair cause it's what they liked and found optimal.

Was it broken? That is a completely different topic and again has nothing to do with folks being upset that their time and in game resources are gone.

The least they can do is offer a refund option on the rare smithing stones and grave flowers for example or some means to at least earn them back.

It's an RPG, it's all about building characters, playing with numbers, it's part of the satisfaction.

Nerfs happen, that's fine, but the common courtesy is you let players invest their previous game time elsewhere. Why when big balance changes happen in many RPGS players are given free respecs or turn in options for resources.
Not only is there clearly not meant to be an 'optimal' build (specifically to encourage build variety, supported by From having twelve years of balance patches showcasing their intent), nothing about builds pointed at The Sword of Night and Flame has changed; it's still one of the strongest weapons for an INT/FTH build, the standard damage is unchanged, and the weapon art is still extremely strong. Trying to frame the build as being 'lost' is absurd when not only post-nerf does it remain as viable but is still one of the best weapons for that specific build.

When the weapon's behaviour explicitly goes against what is described (it casted Comet Azur instead of Night Comet), if people build around what is clearly a mistake and don't expect it to be fixed, then that's absolutely not 'perfectly fair'.

If people want to go in another direction now that the weapon art isn't broken I can definitely understand, but I definitely disagree strongly with the notion some are having that builds are 'lost' by the change. Given that the game features 15 abilities to respec in a single run, lets you buy crafting stones and has made them easier to acquire in the same patch (and, by the time you have a +10 Somber weapon o +25 normal weapon, you are almost certainly able to access) I don't think getting the crafting materials back is really needed at all.
 

Green Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,318
I was away for 3 days and just started the process to get Mimic Ash Tears to defeat the final boss when I was sent back to the title screen for the update. Oh well, I felt a little scummy cheesing it anyways. Any good ash alternative for an astrologer?

The Mimic is still very strong and one of the best summons. Black Knife Tiche is dope if you can get it, too.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,639
Some people like that. I don't understand why people get angry or bothered at others playing a single player game how they want? The game does ramp up the bullshit as you progress and some folks want a strong response to that, in order to keep the game fun for themselves.

Its hard to balance a nonlinear game with so many options and situations like this. But because everyone bee lined for one or two options and basically gave up even trying anything else then clearly there were balance issues (and we've been saying this the whole time). Like 90% of players using only 1 tool out of 50 is pretty dire in terms of balance, and these options are still extremely good even after the changes going by videos.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,748
If FromSoft's vision of the game is to veer people away from a lot of options that are considered broken then that's totally fair. It's their vision and no one can stop them.

As always with that kind of thinking, audiences will always have their own takeaways on what that vision amounts to and what it represents. Designer's intent is always separable from the end result. The fact that people are so apprehensive to nerfs of some dominant options to me at least speaks to some of the weaknesses of how the game is designed in some respects, especially when it comes to its bosses. I know better than to argue about difficulty modes in a FromSoft related thread, but for a lot of people these options were actually a fun "easier mode" in and of itself, and who does it really harm to have some powerful options to default to in a game that will never reach a perfect sense of balance because of how its RPG type builds work? Some people might bring up PvP but some of the tools like Hoarfrost Stomp weren't even that good for it. Others will say that it prevents people from looking up OP builds, but powerful builds will still happen since asking for advice is embedded into the DNA of these games, and usually people only default to looking them up when the game world itself is giving them trouble to attain anything empowering. Personally I say if people want to cheese the game, especially in a vast open world where it can be very menial to figure out what rewards are worth pursuing, then more power to them. This is a single player game after all; one that can take over 70 hours for a first-timer to complete, and for a lot of people, the overpowered options didn't make the game "not challenging".

None of this precludes the notion that some nerfed and unnerfed tools will still remain pretty solid dominant options, but it's also undeniable that people will be getting left in the dust and forced reacclimate, whether it's because their builds are now worse, their materials have been put to waste, or otherwise. As someone who was running a STR build with a Greatsword, I found the Hoarfrost Stomp to be a great complement to a toolset I feel really disadvantaged with in the game. Now I kind of feel like I don't want to continue with this build, and having to shift things towards a different build/strategy is going to take some legwork I kind of wish I wouldn't have to do because the game becomes too tedious for its own good at times.
 

Martinski

Member
Jan 15, 2019
8,420
Göteborg
Bit silly to nerf the mimic ashen, can only be used in certain areas. Sure it's very strong when upgraded and good equipment. But also it is a hidden item that has no impact on multiplayer.

It's an hidden "easy mode" for those who want it.

But it still seems strong and deal lots of damage, only seems bit less tanky.
 

CatAssTrophy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
7,609
Texas
Glad the game is getting this level of post-release support so far.

I need to work more on my Demon's Souls run and see how far I can get into Dark Souls, and once I hit a wall I think I'll be ready for ER. Hopefully PS5 version is more stable by then.
 

PhDInOwning

Member
Mar 17, 2018
69
I don't disagree. I'm not saying they should not have buffed some sorceries. I'm saying the fact that the buffed those things and yet completely ignored the things that needed MUCH MORE ATTENTION than those sorceries is bullshit.


The fact that they decided that those sorceries needed to be adjusted despite the fact that melee builds are drowning by comparison is embarrassing. Magic was already OP as all hell with little help. That's why all of the early guides suggest astrologer. Meanwhile melee builds are unanimously hard as hell. Yet it's the sorceries that get buffed and not the melee stuff.


That is either intentional or ignorant on their part and I say that as someone who mains a Faith build. The melee players have been left out to dry. Souls games have always been harsher towards melee builds. Especially strength builds. But this game takes that to another level. Those builds needed some love. So much so that it has become a meme. Yet they did nothing. That sucks.

Clearly you have not stumbled across powerstancing status build up or their jump attacks if you are complaining about melee. 'Melee is a meme' is laughable. After the nerfs and not counting having an ash to tank for you while you spell cast certain spells, this is probably the strongest dps approach in the game now, and it was already relatively 'broken' before everything else got balanced. If you're struggling as a faith melee build, try out Blasphemous blade with a second greatsword. Now you have an overpowered weapon art (that somehow wasn't touched?) that can let you ranged if you like to complain so much about going into melee, and you can throw a L1 jump attack every so often to feel better about the way you play if you're too scared to be in a bosses face all the time.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,325
I will say that Radahn, Maliketh and Astel are absolute bullshit in their power and range (though, Radahn can be defeated with ranged attacks once you get past his fucking ANNOYING blasting and arrow attacks at the beginning). Maliketh has insane speed and range. Astel is crazy vast range and enjoys running away after like 2-3 hits.
I disagree with two bosses, but I am a DEX+FTH Uchigatana build so maybe that changes everything.
Astel is annoying because they keep teleporting and running away, but the attacks are ultra telegraphed more than most FROM bosses. The teleport seemed mostly triggered by damage to me, so you have decent time to run up and smack his face. I could see him being hard on a magic build just because thematically he seems resistant to magic.

Radahn's run up is takes annoyingly long but super telegraphed. The NPC summons are really good and like every large enemy in a From game if you roll around and attack from behind you can hardly be touched. The spell where he summons the meteorites and they just sit there menacingly, threatening you with a one-shot, is BS though.

I have not reached Maliketh yet, but I'm quite close to starting that dungeon.
 
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jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Member
May 9, 2020
12,416
It doesn't seem universally better though. Like I get all benefits and zero negatives from this patch. But I can understand why some players may feel the opposite.
Universally better Balance doesn't exist. The Base game as it shipped is better for some players worse for others.

Balance is trying to to the best for the most people (within the confines of the vision of the game)

Also stuff your using getting nerf is not all downside

I'm a person using bloodyslash I have been using it for 20+ hours because it's on a completely different level.

Bloody slash got a pretty decent Nerf and I am happy about it for 2 reasons.

1. I no longer fear I won't find a better Art for the rest of the game so variety is still on the menu.

2. The Move used to be something I could spam 24/7. Now it's actually More fun to use because instead of bieng Free the risk reward of hurting yourself means you have to pick good spots to use it leading to more engaging gameplay.

Bloody slash my go to move getting nerfed made the game better imo because they successfully made it a Balnced but still incredibly strong Art.
 

Balbanes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,213
Much needed balance changes. The complaints are wild. Mimic is still good, it was probably never intended to be able to solo bosses like it did before. Hoarfrost had no business doing as much damage as it did for the FP cost.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,201
Dark Space
  • Fixed a bug that causes some hostile NPCs to drop Furlcalling Finger Remedy.
Oh so that's why the hard as hell person I beat way earlier than I should have didn't drop the damn Sacred Butchering Knife like they were supposed to, I thought it was weird for their only drop to be an FFR, nice to know it was a bug but kinda salty if I just miss out on the weapon anyway now.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,459
Just got done catching up on the thread, and hah, did this proceed predictably -- like any thread on nerfing does, in any game. Have to roll my eyes at all the flagrant hyperbole. Quite literally nothing that was nerfed is now "unviable" or "ruined"; things went from "game-bustingly overpowered" to merely "very good." Both PvP and PvE will be better off for it. Clearly they aren't only adjusting for the former, considering the mimic tear nerf.

Speaking of which, the mimic tear's absurd ubiquity and power actively made the game worse. Not only did it trivialize some encounters, but no single spirit should be so head-and-shoulders above the rest of them in every respect that no one gives any others a second glance. It rendered the entire mechanic incredibly shallow, and it being brought in-line makes the game better.

Great patch overall. Didn't fix or touch absolutely everything people might've wanted it to, but it's literally just the first balance pass, so of course it didn't.
 
Dec 6, 2017
10,986
US
I'm glad to see the changes to some of the magic spells. The range buff especially because some of the bosses are the size of a fucking parking garage and unless you get way too close to melee range, you couldn't hit shit.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,326
For someone like me that dies constantly, yes, having a weapon that's actually extremely powerful is kind of important so I don't have panic attacks and throw my controller at a goddamn wall. Like having that weapon doesn't make the game "easy", it makes the game actually playable for me.

Different skill levels should have options. That's what we've been arguing for in the "easy mode" threads for years - the game giving players of various skill levels in-game options to make the difficulty manageable for them - but somehow when people find an in-game route to actually make the game fun for them, it's okay for that shit to get nerfed to the point it doesn't make the game fun anymore?

elden-ring-touch-grace-torrent.jpg
 

Icarian

Member
May 9, 2018
5,357
Some people might bring up PvP but some of the tools like Hoarfrost Stomp weren't even that good for it.

While Hoarforst is easily avoidable in PVP it broke PvE. My character has a quality build dual wielding greatswords, no Int, no Faith, no Mind, I have a Claymore and a Sword of Milos on my offhand. Hoarfrost made it so swinging my swords was useless in comparison, why would I risk myself getting hit by going close to the enemies and swinging my sword when I can just press L2 and do triple damage with AoE vs a melee swing? And it's infinite since Sword of Milos refunds 5 FP per kill.

It's was not a tool, it made melee attacks redundant on a build that focuses nearly 100% on melee attacks.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,037
Why did I have to kill gostoc! Who am I kidding, that ungrateful servant deserved it.
 

chatsquared

Member
Nov 19, 2020
497
no patch for shooting the bird and having it run off the cliff for easy runes? Thank god
This is the thing I was certain they were going to patch and I can't believe it still works. Actually I tried it last night and it seems like the bird runs off the edge even faster in my case? Like instead of running diagonally past the tree it ran straight forward and plummeted right off; definitely didn't do that before.

I was away for 3 days and just started the process to get Mimic Ash Tears to defeat the final boss when I was sent back to the title screen for the update. Oh well, I felt a little scummy cheesing it anyways. Any good ash alternative for an astrologer?
It's still Mimic Ash for me. You won't necessarily be able to stand back as long as you did before but the mimic still does great damage. I've also heard good things about the hawk in terms of drawing aggro, maybe look into that?
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,407
The Mimic Tear is fine guys. I summoned it and handily kicked Godfrey's ass last night. They definitely nerfed the damage a little but it's still a fucking tank.
 

Gwynn

Member
Mar 2, 2019
1,808
fight them one-on-one and feel like you got a fair fight learning their patterns and reacting to them.

You can still do this, go on YouTube (careful with spoilers if you haven't finished the game though) and see tons of no summon fights.

My partner who is new to From games always forgets to use the summons and ends up beating them, sometimes faster than me using them lol
 

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,133
Making the game better would've been raising up other options to make them competitive vs. just making shit worse.
They did make stuff better. It's flying under the radar but sorcery as a whole got an overall buff across a ton of spells, either lowered FP costs, increased range, increased damage, or sometimes all three.
The Mimic Tear is fine guys. I summoned it and handily kicked Godfrey's ass last night. They definitely nerfed the damage a little but it's still a fucking tank.
I think a lot of people miss that Summon Ash is just good, period. I have a +9 Redmane Knight Ogha that basically solo'd Fortissax while I ran away in terror. Mimic Tear is the "meta" I guess, but these other ashes definitely do not slouch.
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,819
Some people like that. I don't understand why people get angry or bothered at others playing a single player game how they want? The game does ramp up the bullshit as you progress and some folks want a strong response to that, in order to keep the game fun for themselves.

I don't think anyone cares how someone plays the game, it's the responses to the patch that is getting a reaction.

What I find most interesting is all of the people using the exact same builds and weapons. Like clearly most of the people in this thread have gone online to research cheese strats. I've been playing the game for 80 hours and didn't know about most of the OP stuff that got nerfed because I'm playing the game completely blind.
 

LumberPanda

Member
Feb 3, 2019
6,325
I can only speak for myself but Elden Ring made me realize just how unfun summoning actually is as someone who never used it before. When like half the bosses are "balanced" around using your summon or being able to inflict some status ailment to trivialize them it isn't as fun personally as when you can fight them one-on-one and feel like you got a fair fight learning their patterns and reacting to them.

So yeah, fuck From's intended difficulty if it's not going to be fun anymore. And this is coming from someone who thinks Sekiro probably had their best boss lineup due to everything being balanced around a specific playstyle.
There are a many BS dual bosses in many catacombs, but I've not summoned for any of the main bosses yet. I'm reaching the end of Mountaintop of the Giants. Thinking of doing the bloody palace first because I just found the teleporter so maybe that'll change when I see the endgame content.
 

CelestialAtom

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,037
I disagree with two bosses, but I am a DEX+FTH Uchigatana build so maybe that changes everything.
Astel is annoying because they keep teleporting and running away, but the attacks are ultra telegraphed more than most FROM bosses. The teleport seemed mostly triggered by damage to me, so you have decent time to run up and smack his face. I could see him being hard on a magic build just because thematically he seems resistant to magic.

Radahn's run up is takes annoyingly long but super telegraphed. The NPC summons are really good and like every large enemy in a From game if you roll around and attack from behind you can hardly be touched. The spell where he summons the meteorites and they just sit there menacingly, threatening you with a one-shot, is BS though.

I have not reached Maliketh yet, but I'm quite close to starting that dungeon.

Yeah, I am an Uchikatana build as well.

Those are fair points. Radahn was just insanely infuriating with his two one-hit attacks (the meteor one and the flying from the sky attack). I always tried getting behind him, but he was just quick to hitting me and fucking me up. Maliketh isn't hard at first since they will show up as "Beast Clergyman", but the second half is absolutely frustrating as they are jumping all over the place and hitting you with a lot of ranged attacks from above. With my build, Maliketh was a royal pain in the ass. In regards to Astel, I was only able to beat it when distracted by my Mimic Tear or another online player while I pelted it with Radahn's great arrows that I was using from my Lion Greatbow.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,686
USA
You can still do this, go on YouTube (careful with spoilers if you haven't finished the game though) and see tons of no summon fights.

The difficulty of the doing the endgame fights solo in Elden Ring is wildly different from doing the endgame fights solo in every previous soulsborne title. Those last 5 (or so) bosses were balanced around ash summons and a much higher level than you would otherwise achieve if you're following the main path.
Is it possible? Sure. But the level of difficulty of those last 5 encounters is far higher than in previous titles, if you play Elden Ring like previous soulsborne titles.
 

Smash-It Stan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,262
  • Fixed a bug that causes some hostile NPCs to drop Furlcalling Finger Remedy.
Oh so that's why the hard as hell person I beat way earlier than I should have didn't drop the damn Sacred Butchering Knife like they were supposed to, I thought it was weird for their only drop to be an FFR, nice to know it was a bug but kinda salty if I just miss out on the weapon anyway now.
Yea what's going on with this? Are those drops just gone now?
 

dark494

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,548
Seattle
Another thing people glossed over is that shields all got big buffs across the board.
Everyone's talking about nurfs. So I take that to mean the performance improvements are minor? I'm mainly wondering if I can move from the PS4 version to the PS5 version...
No changes on this front apparently. PC version is notably worse for many, crashing more too
 

Jornax

Member
Nov 17, 2017
105
Added Smithing Stone to some early game shop line up.

What's the deal with this?
I'm currently at the beginning of Liurnia, having cleared (pre-patch) practically everything in Limgrave/Stormhill/Stormveil/Weeping Peninsula before, including buying all the merchants' finite stock. Traveled around post-patch to all the merchants I know, as well as the Twin Maidens, none seem to have any stones for sale? Do they stop selling them after reaching a certain point?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,496
They did make stuff better. It's flying under the radar but sorcery as a whole got an overall buff across a ton of spells, either lowered FP costs, increased range, increased damage, or sometimes all three.

Sorcery is never going to be good. They're so bad at making it an interesting playstyle compared to incantations. It's just 60 different 'it's a blue laser, but it's .025% faster than the other blue lasers' spells. The actual DESIGN of the playstyle needs a rework, not just the numbers. Making spells cost slightly less doesn't stop them from all being extremely boring.

I don't think anyone cares how someone plays the game, it's the responses to the patch that is getting a reaction.

What I find most interesting is all of the people using the exact same builds and weapons. Like clearly most of the people in this thread have gone online to research cheese strats. I've been playing the game for 80 hours and didn't know about most of the OP stuff that got nerfed because I'm playing the game completely blind.

It's more like when you find something that works, a lot of them are going to gravitate to it because the game really doesn't throw you many bones. Most gear is worthless right out of the gate and requires a TON of investment to make it even marginally useful, so people don't want to waste resources on something they don't know is going to work. You can't get your investment in a weapon back if it turns out to be crap (or if From decides to nerf it through the floor), so are you surprised people tend to find something that works and stick to it?
 

Icarian

Member
May 9, 2018
5,357
What I find most interesting is all of the people using the exact same builds and weapons. Like clearly most of the people in this thread have gone online to research cheese strats. I've been playing the game for 80 hours and didn't know about most of the OP stuff that got nerfed because I'm playing the game completely blind.

It's pretty obvious that many people do this, same reason you see a Moonveil 90% of the time when you invade, I doubt everyone just coincidentially have the same build :p.

I still don't have the Sword of Night and Flame because I cleared the area and didn't find it by myself, I could go back and try to find it but since it doesn't fit my build I'm not bothering to get it till before going NG+.
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,997
Canada
So they nerfed the mimic. Good thing I already finished one playthrough. The Mimic saved me more times than I care to admit.
 

SuperDevilJoe

Member
Dec 27, 2021
741
Ooh, Bloody Slash was my go to Ash of War. To be honest it took me over 40 hours to notice it actually drains a bit of health because the cost was so negligible, so that change makes perfect sense. Curious about the increased casting time though.
Man, I found that out real QUICK! lol I had no flasks left going through Stormveil Castle. Had like 15% left of health. Felt like I was just about to turn the corner to find a site of grace, but I ran into some enemies first. Bloody Slash was killing everything mostly in one hit. But I used it and died??? Until I realized the Ash was what killed me lol.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
Sorcery is never going to be good. They're so bad at making it an interesting playstyle compared to incantations. It's just 60 different 'it's a blue laser, but it's .025% faster than the other blue lasers' spells. The actual DESIGN of the playstyle needs a rework, not just the numbers. Making spells cost slightly less doesn't stop them from all being extremely boring.



It's more like when you find something that works, a lot of them are going to gravitate to it because the game really doesn't throw you many bones. Most gear is worthless right out of the gate and requires a TON of investment to make it even marginally useful, so people don't want to waste resources on something they don't know is going to work. You can't get your investment in a weapon back if it turns out to be crap (or if From decides to nerf it through the floor), so are you surprised people tend to find something that works and stick to it?
So far nothing has been nerfed through the floor at least, other than the clearly unintended broken stuff
 

ruggiex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,079
Making the game better would've been raising up other options to make them competitive vs. just making shit worse.

What will end up happening is they would have to raise everything and also add resistance to everything. The end result is the same difficulty as the current 'nerf'. The 'nerf's' in this patch are more like bug fixes.
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
25,149
See when I go to buy sorcery spells now. They need only INT they used to need Faith or Arcane or both. Is that right?

There are two schools of magic in this game, Sorceries and Incantations. Sorceries are INT based, although there are a few (but in the minority) sorceries that also require Faith and/or Arcane. Incantations are Faith based, but quite a few also require Arcane (most/all of the dragon based ones). It's been this way from the start.

I can't recall if there are Incantations that also require INT, but I'm using Sorceries and not Incantations with my character so I haven't been paying attention.