Yes. Like tons of other games that don't get 1% of the shit From gets about it.
Again, where was all the animosity against BluePoint for not including easy mode on the Demon's remake?
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Yes. Like tons of other games that don't get 1% of the shit From gets about it.
Again, where was all the animosity against BluePoint for not including easy mode on the Demon's remake?
I see what you're saying, but I don't think the Golem serves as a reminder of the player's vulnerability in the same way. I think he's more of a test than a lesson, if that makes sense? I don't think he's meant to seem impossible either. He's got that big, obvious weak spot and slow lumbering moves. There's a difference in brutality and intensity too. If the Golem sees you, you can get away or around it, whereas TS immediately fucks you and the game is telling you - via grace - you need to find a way around him. I think you're almost meant to die to him.
It's funny because I'm playing BOTW with my daughter in parallel with ER (when she's in bed). It's fun looking at the two.
Yes, 100% I'm the one that can't resist. I don't disagree with that at all. But because the game doesn't allow me to turn down the difficulty it forces me to overcome its challenges. It doesn't let me take the easy way out which I and many others would do. It is for this reason that we appreciate his games.
What? I think for Souls vet the TS is a middling encounter at the beginning. You can definitely hurt him if you know what you are doing. He was literally the first thing I killed when I was able to get to the open world. However, for new players I think he is there to let them know the world is dangerous and to run if you feel outclassed. It helps people understand that they do not need to stick to something that is giving them a hard time, you can go do something else.
That's great. I've played for a long time too and he murdered me. 🤷🏽♂️
Sure, I said as much earlier.
Oh yeah, it's definitely far less intense, but the game does let you encounter enemies that could stomp your shit early on if you're not prepared/"levelled".
Just pointing out this isn't a terribly uncommon convention in video games using the most popular open world game on this forum as a comparison. it's just another one of those things that don't get criticized when other games do it.
I dunno. where was it? The outstanding thing here isn't what shit from gets for what they do. It's the defense force for what they dont do.
So what you are telling me is the first boss should be your own fragility. I don't see a problem with this. It would be a good experiment to see what Froms fans are really made of. If you are unable to play the game the way you want because of your own fear of failure then Miyazaki is even more mistaken. It sounds to me like easy is more in line with Miyazaki's vision than he thinks.
Seriously, there are people that can't play the game at all.but the thing we need to be concerned with is your lack of commitment? Does this go hand and hand with the pearl clutching about there being an easy option not being something you could possibly forget about as long as you play. The easy option is forever looming over you tempting you like a siren? Are you kidding me? If you aren't having any fun playing on easy. There would be a solution to that. Don't play on easy.
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"Just play something else."
Is this really what it comes down to? It's so dismissive! This isn't a case of not liking the game and hoping an easy mode will change minds. There are people who really like these games and want to get into them more, but can't solely because of the difficulty. There are people who might become major community contributors or ambassadors of the games if only they could tweak a couple of settings.
Is this really what it comes down to? It's so dismissive! This isn't a case of not liking the game and hoping an easy mode will change minds. There are people who really like these games and want to get into them more, but can't solely because of the difficulty. There are people who might become major community contributors or ambassadors of the games if only they could tweak a couple of settings.
How does other people lowering the relative difficulty for themselves take away from your experience?
Why does it have to be a difficulty toggle, though? Why is the method they currently implement, which is to provide players with a number of means for mitigating the difficulty, not a viable way to implement an easy mode? I feel like no one ever wants to address this point. Like, the ashes already serve as a way to severely decrease the difficulty. The NPC summons already can help you considerably. Why don't these implementations count?
Making a game accessible is not the same as making a game easy. An incredibly difficult game can be more accessible than a relatively easy game.
I don't think anyone should be against accessibility features. And those features should be more of a priority for developers in the industry.
Whether a game is difficult or easy is about as subjective as anything could be. It's an impossible task to please everyone in this regard, difficulty modes or not. If a developer wants their game to be challenging, there's nothing wrong with them making a challenging game. The goal with these discussions should not be about making those games less challenging. It should be about making sure that as many people as possible can take on that challenge.
If its the creators intent to have a single difficulty, having options certainly would take away from that, as it would no longer be what they wanted to make.
The point is they want everyone to play the same game, fighting the same version of enemies/bosses as everyone else. Everyone has different gaming skills and everyone is different, so some people will struggle a lot more than others. But in the end they all played the same version of the game, which is the whole point. If you want to complete the game, then you need to put in the effort, that's all there is to it.
Do you think this is all about like some kind of ego/masculinity/"I'm better than you" thing? Because it's not. It's about me, the player, succeeding through my own adversity. The way I want to play it is to be challenged and to overcome that challenge, without the option to punch out
The option being there will worsen the experience for people who would succumb to the easier route. Which includes me. And which includes many people as Miyazaki refers to.
I don't care what other people do though. Have an amazing time with a god mode mod or whatever
A defense force that exists because we've had this discussion in circles for over a decade and absolutely no one is willing to budge so what is the point in continuing to have it? Just go your separate ways and move on. If you don't like From games because they're too hard and don't have difficulty modes that's fine. If you do like From games because they're hard and don't have difficulty modes that's fine as well. Miyazaki has stated numerous times he has no plans to change, so what is there to discuss at this point? Absolutely nothing, and yet this thread is 60 pages long.
There are a bazillion games out there that are difficult and lack difficulty modes, I'm sure Monster Hunter fans would be just as irritated if people started begging for easy mode in Monster Hunter because people are unable to finish those games, despite the lack of difficulty modes being a core pillar of that games design since the franchise existed. But nobody cares that Monster Hunter, or a million other equally as difficult or obtuse games don't have easy modes.
There was no uproar when MHW released and lacked an easy mode, or MHR and I'm sure if someone started a thread saying they were having trouble with X monster people would just tell them to summon other players. Because that is what people do and have always done in Monster Hunter or just tell them that the series just isn't for them and to move on, but somehow that is unacceptable here and these particular games need easy modes and only these games because, reasons.
But for whatever reason, despite having all of the same "issues" and solutions as Souls games, Monster Hunter games don't get the same complaints. So after a while it begins to feel disingenuous whether or not a large number of people actually care about "accessibility" in the form of easy modes or are just mad because they feel like they're missing out on something cool and popular and refuse to get with it or just let it go.
Do keep in mind that there's a difference between a self imposed challenge and an imposed one.
If you have the option of playing a game on easy mode and you decide not to, you have willingly made the game harder for yourself. It's a self imposed challenge because the game is only as hard as you are personally allowing it to be. On the other hand if there's no option than it's just an imposed challenge. The game's difficulty has NOTHING to do with your personal whims is entirely on the developers.
One can feel like a fight against yourself and one can feel like a fight against the game. I bring this up because there IS a difference, playing Devil May Cry on Hell and Hell mode is not the same as playing Ninja Gaiden on the NES for this very reason.
This concept is impossible for some of the folks here to grasp it seems. Which is why they keep spouting - easy mode being present doesnt affect your experience when it does if you look at the bottom line.
I flew south(-ish) in BOTW right after the tutorial. The first enemy I ran into was a red lynel in a valley.
Can someone give me the hotline to Aonuma? I need to tell him how much of a gatekeeper he is.
Can someone give me the hotline to Aonuma? I need to tell him how much of a gatekeeper he is.
So I flipped through this thread and it got me to wonder something.
So we consider video games as art?
And if so, does that mean the art has to shift to fit the consumer or does the art convey the feelings and experiences the artist wishes to impress upon the consumer?
If video games are just content that are meant to be consumed like any other media, then I don't see a reason why there shouldn't be an easy mode. However, if video games are an art, I feel that experiencing the game as the artist intended is part of the experience.
Just some stuff I've been thinking about reading all this.
So we consider video games as art?
And if so, does that mean the art has to shift to fit the consumer or does the art convey the feelings and experiences the artist wishes to impress upon the consumer?
If video games are just content that are meant to be consumed like any other media, then I don't see a reason why there shouldn't be an easy mode. However, if video games are an art, I feel that experiencing the game as the artist intended is part of the experience.
Just some stuff I've been thinking about reading all this.
In the end they are just labels. There are multiple ways to approach this idea and that is what makes the argument against it all the more silly. If aspects about the games were slowly changed to be more accommodating then they would be functionaly identical to making the game have an easy mode. Only this seems to be an actual worse outcome for the people who are against it as there would be no option to turn it on or off. There are people here saying that they cannot resist the temptation of picking easy as it is. The easy mode just may be an item in the game they use and they would never know it. If anything, the people that want to keep the game challenging should want an easy mode as it may section off the more exploitable aspects of the game to a mode that they aren't even playing. Imagine not being to resist a toggle option and then resisting things like mimic and hoarfrost stomp and making the case for no easy mode. Its is very hard to view this as anything but elitism the more it's discussed. There is a cognitive dissonance going on when there are simultaneously people from the same group arguing against an easy mode but then also outlining how it's already there and it's great. When in truth whatever is there is obviously not handled well enough as we are still here going round and round about it.
Gavin Moore (Demon's Souls Remake Creative Director): "There are no difficulty options in Demon's Souls, and there shouldn't be."
https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2020/10/29/demons-souls-playstation-5-interview-fractured-mode-sixth-archstone-and-more I thought it would be fine to post this, because the whole easy mode thing was a huge question before it was just confirmed today.
www.resetera.com
This is not how human behavior works. Agency is not total. The options available to someone completely changes the experience beyond the choices they make and the way they make decisions and how they feel about those decisions is very different. This is literally what game design is about.
This assertion that people should "just have self control" completely and utterly misunderstands the point. That's not how humans work.
I'd be glad to steer and participate in such a thread. The able-bodied people gnashing their teeth because the game is too hard threads are coming to an end after this one burns out though.
Now that Miyazaki has stated his intentions, this circular argument is over and won't be continued on Era if I can help it.
I dont see whats wrong with this. Theres tons of movies and other media that you may want to watch but are too scary or too bloody or whatever. Even if you would like The Shining, theres a brick wall there in the horror genre that many people cant get past. And so they just watch something else. Is videogame difficulty different?
No that is not the point. It isn't that people should have self control. It's it shouldn't matter if you have self control or not when it comes to playing a videogame. You should have the option to do what you feel is good for you with no qualms about it. If a person doesn't have the self control to not pick easy then they should be comfortable with that and decide for themselves if it's worth it.
I doubt kyra or crossing eden will even attempt to understand this.
I think a discussion needs to be had about what is considered an accessibility option. I think difficulty is excluded wholesale and there can be an argument to Include it in some fashion.
I imagine that given the amount of options in the game already they want as many people to experience it as possible.
Video games absolutely are art. But they are a particularly unique type of art that more than any other are susceptible to the idea of "death of the author." If only because video games, in the majority of cases, are not a passive medium compared to paintings, music, movies, etc.
Which again I ask, is the most common build in Souls games the ones that literally break the game? Because the implication that most people would just choose easy mode has no basis in reality. In DMC if you die enough the game asks you if you'd like to choose the easy mode? But there's no indication that the majority of people, even in that game where they accidentally made the hard mode the normal mode, choose that. Let alone, the idea that if given an easier option the majority of people would use that.
Exactly. I've got a part of me that wants to be challenged and a part of me that wants to just get through it and see the end. I know the challenging route will ultimately satisfy me more, but the instant gratification of the other route is always tempting. Sometimes one part wins. Some times the other one does. So I like it when a game doesn't give me the choice sometimes. It's nice to push that concern out of my head and just play the game. I shouldn't have to have self control every time I play every game. Its entertainment. Sometimes I should just get what I want lol. It's perfectly fine, even good, for people like me to get a game that caters to our specific desires every once in a while.
I would also like to see a thread about accessibility in these games without it devolving into the same tired "discussion" about difficulty. Which always seems to leave accessibility options on the wayside, if not out of the conversation entirely.
Got to dodge into his attacks. Takes a long time to widdle him down and it is probably a stupid thing to do anyway since what he drops you won't be able to use for a long time.
However, he isn't invincible or impossible to defeat.
The game as a work is presented as the designer wants it to be. The difficulty is inherent to that presentation.
All anyone is owed, in my own personal opinion, is the proper control options that allow them to approach that piece of work at the very best of their abilities. That is accessibility in my eyes.
Who says you are owed the right to beat the game? I can name a game right now that 99% of Era can't beat, because the creator is an asshole. Is it not his right to be an asshole?
Sometimes there are people that know what is good for me better than I do. Miyazaki is one of those people in the realm of video games.
If you picked your difficulty and it was attached to your character and then you hit a wall and needed to start over to get back to where you were. Where along the way has anything been compromised? If the wall still exists on the character you made if you are having more fun on the harder difficulty then you would want to continue. Unless you aren't actually having fun or don't want the accomplishment. Choice doesnt interfere with this unless you want it to.
Agreed and it completely changes the way that you experience the boss fight. Instead of saying "welp, i'm either going to beat this or I wont" you're instead just constantly fighting your frustration and the temptation to reduce difficulty.
Yes and I have the right to call that person an asshole and his game shit for being the way it is. Would that be allowed in the proposed thread?
The sad thing is, Elden Ring deserves to get absolutely dragged for how poor the actual accessibility options are. No run toggle, run is married to the same key as the dodges with no option of divorce? Lock-on and reset camera on the same key and can't be unbound?
I am a quadriplegic playing this game with three fingers (and winning) getting drowned out by people whining about difficulty. Like.... shut the fuck up for a minute there are actual things that need to be fixed here.
I recommend watching this, where two disabled gamers discuss the problems with Elden Ring in depth:
An honest conversation about ELDEN RING and accessibility
As Elden Ring ranks up at the top of the review scores, there is a lot to be praised for Elden Ring. But the debate over "Easy Modes" "accessibility" and "di...
youtu.be
With regards to the current discussion, Grant says that the in-game ways of diagetically mitigating the difficulty is good, and that the easy mode people want is a Band-Aid over receiving actual accessibility options that action games need. He was able to complete all the Soulsborne games except for Sekiro - the lack of good button mapping options meant he hit a wall that his body could not execute. Steve says that able-bodied circular discussion about only easy mode is putting accessibility discussion back years.
Grant also wrote an article for IGN about this, if nobody has time to listen to the video: https://www.ign.com/articles/video-game-difficulty-accessibility-easy-mode-debate
This statement is quite something. By limiting it to control, you leave out the following.
Nobody is owed subtitles. The developers exclusively wanted this to have auditory notifications.
Nobody is owed contrast. If you can't make out two objects, that's on you.
Nobody is owed text to speech. If you're blind, all you are owed is using the ability of the controller.
I say all of these should be standard. If it can affect 0.1% of players, it should be covered. Correspondingly, because the players now have to rely on information that can't be processed as fast, there needs to be leeway in difficulty or at least in things like minor adjustments to aggro and timing.
Like Miyazaki's frame of reference and most devs sadly is why all of those things you do mention aren't handled. That discussion is why in the same cause it comes down to how the game is designed.
I just called them an asshole, but they relish in the fact anyway
That's disingenuous and bad faith as fuck and you know it. How are subtitles and everything you listed not a part of what the fuck I'm talking about with real accessibility and allowing people to approach a game to the best of their abilities?
Your little "gotcha" was built on quicksand, tighten up.
I don't see why both can't be discussed simultaneously. Again there is a lot to talk about when it comes to accessibility and difficulty but the preservationist attitude I think is actually at odds with it. As a separate mode for easy and not easy would do more to preserve the mode that is not easy as opposed to trying to fit everything into one package especially when many of those things would be different then what we have now. It makes no sense to be against one approach but not the other.I recommend watching this, where two disabled gamers discuss the problems with Elden Ring in depth:
An honest conversation about ELDEN RING and accessibility
As Elden Ring ranks up at the top of the review scores, there is a lot to be praised for Elden Ring. But the debate over "Easy Modes" "accessibility" and "di...
With regards to the current discussion, Grant says that the in-game ways of diagetically mitigating the difficulty is good, and that the easy mode people want is a Band-Aid over receiving actual accessibility options that action games need. He was able to complete all the Soulsborne games except for Sekiro - the lack of good button mapping options meant he hit a wall that his body could not execute. Steve says that able-bodied circular discussion about only easy mode is putting accessibility discussion back years.
I don't understand what you're trying to say, but this has been explained to you ten times over already so you should either accept what people are saying about how they personally enjoy games as the truth (which it is), or don't and just move on.
I know guys who are champions in Street Fighter playing with their mouths and Killer instinct playing with barely three fingers. It's very difficult for me to complain about control accessibility when these people exist.
Does that make him not above criticism though? Like, would a thread be closed because "You shouldn't discuss this or can't criticize this dev's decisions"
Ofc not. How in tarnation have we reached the point where "Are you owed the right to beat the game?" is a question? Like, Drakengard's incredibly shitty rhythm game ending sequence fucking sucks but it's absolutely intended to be super difficult to see an ending where your character fucking dies
that doesn't make it above criticism or even more of an artistic expression than ending sequences in other games. Or even that creator's later work. Nier Automata's ending sequence is way more accessible and not just by virtue of that game garnering way more attention has been completed by way more people.
.............How about the fact that the majority of people with physical disabilities aren't like that?
Thanks for posting this, I'm watching immediately. Their thoughts will probably echo mine, game sucks on many levels.I recommend watching this, where two disabled gamers discuss the problems with Elden Ring in depth:
An honest conversation about ELDEN RING and accessibility
As Elden Ring ranks up at the top of the review scores, there is a lot to be praised for Elden Ring. But the debate over "Easy Modes" "accessibility" and "di...
With regards to the current discussion, Grant says that the in-game ways of diagetically mitigating the difficulty is good, and that the easy mode people want is a Band-Aid over receiving actual accessibility options that action games need. He was able to complete all the Soulsborne games except for Sekiro - the lack of good button mapping options meant he hit a wall that his body could not execute. Steve says that able-bodied circular discussion about only easy mode is putting accessibility discussion back years.
Grant also wrote an article for IGN about this, if nobody has time to listen to the video: https://www.ign.com/articles/video-game-difficulty-accessibility-easy-mode-debate
The souls games are very much a collective experience, and the singular difficulty setting adds to that. This is way off.
Edit: Do people who don't like spicy food demand that restaurants that specialize and have a passion for spice offer more palatable, perhaps blander options? What if the chefs don't like making such dishes? Why not just go eat elsewhere instead of asking someone else to dilute their vision or passion?
I note this is different from accessibility options which most games can improve on. It's not like people with various disabilities don't like challenging games either.
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