What? Do you mean who your intended audience is? I mean yeah of course, games can have different audiences?
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That is an experience that people experience, by definition, no?
I rarely find people to summon. It really sucks, because I wanted to do a full coop playthrough
The beauty of choice absolutely includes not playing games that are too hard for you or don't meet the design criteria you value
It's not a resignation, it's a choice that people make every single day in every single market sector. I choose not to watch dozens of films a year. I choose not to eat hundreds of different restaurants that don't offer food I enjoy. It's the same damn thing. From chose and continues to choose not to put in an easy mode toggle. Maybe sometime over the next decade people who hate the core design and main feature of these 7 games will choose to act like most people and simply choose to play shit they enjoy instead
Your second sentence is exactly how it would take away from our own experience
I'm like halfway through the game and I will never summon anyone. I find the concept of invasions to be such a turn off I just don't bother with summons.
Or even play other games. Some people seemingly think Souls fans have never been on the other side of the argument.
Like, no difficulty setting or accessibility option will ever make me like Spelunky, and people call it one of the best games ever made. I gave it a chance, didn't like it, just moved on.
Luckily with the blue and white ring you can buy from the merchant in the hub area you get an automatic gank squad summon so you can 3v1 the invader. It's actually really fun lol
Blue crew represent
There is nothing about what people are proposing that eliminates those choices. You chose to do those things and not do them because of your conditions but if those conditions were different you would have more choices and those aspects would be better. if the restaurants you didn't like served food you did you could appreciate the aspects about those places that would be appealing to you other than the food like the atmosphere and the service. If a restaurant was too expensive for someone to go to and then suddenly they weren't or had menu options that were cheaper that would be better if it wasn't the case. Just like Elden Ring would be better if it gave the player more choice without compromising what it already does.
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But an easy mode would compromise what it already does. That's what part of the interview was about, not sure if you read it
Yes??? Like do you think GT7 is being designed for arcade style lovers??
Ah, okay, sorry. It just came off the back of my post and I was like:
I can understand that. I think ER is probably FROM's most accessible game so far. They've filed off a lot of the frustrations and added a lot more diegetic options to support players, so perhaps they are slowly moving in a more 'friendly' direction. I just dont think it's as straight forward as changing numbers or speeds.
The Tree Sentinel encounter (again) is designed to kill you when you first encounter it. It's deliberately unfriendly. It's (probably) there to teach you to be careful who you mess with and remind you how small you are after your success with the tutorial boss. People talk about it and tell the kind of stories that make good word of mouth.
If you face TS and you can kill him straight away, the encounter design loses its meaning; in fact, it literally takes on the opposite. If the player is going to kill him straight away and feel immediately powerful in doing so, what's the point in having TS - a hulking great knight on horse back with fast visceral moves - there at all? For it to be any good (and they'd would want to put effort in), they'd have to redesign the encounter. There's loads of similarly crafted moments in all their games - every dragon bridge springs to mind - that would require total redesigns.
Sorry, I'm a waffler.
it's not even a super uncommon design convention, which is why i don't know why tree sentinel gets brought up as much as he does. there are enemies that can one shot you almost immediately after getting out of the reawakening area at the beginning of BOTW, JRPGs that put super powerful enemies in a specific direction of the world map to basically convince you to go the other way and come back when you're stronger, etc...
How does one homogenize something as subjective as difficulty? No amount of modes, toggles, or sliders in the world would make a game comfortable for all skill levels.
I feel like Elden Ring already went in to an easy mode direction and it affects me. I'm talking about spirits. Development time was spent on that that would much rather have spent elsewhere than on a system that makes many bosses trivial. I restarted my game because honestly I felt like I was playing the game wrong even though it's just part of your toolkit. When I saw that I could just kill bosses without them even acknowledging me, it just felt wrong. Not every boss, but enough. Nothing against people who do use them. But if you're asking ME I would rather have invested that time in something that in my opinion would make the game overall better.
Honestly I think using the Ashes will be really fun for NG+. I'm avoiding summons/ashes for my first playthrough but am excited to dig into it and try it out handily later. The Ashes mechanic is so conceptually cool and mechanically dexterous that I think seriously delving into it can still be rewarding (especially when bosses will likely get extra tanky on deeper NG cycles).
Sure, but I don't think TS is a comparable encounter to Magoblins or whatever they're called specifically. It's not that he can one shot you; you can't hurt him at all. It would be like having a boss encounter just as you open the doors to the Great Plateau. 😄
Good shout.
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I think the difference is the cost of death in Souls is so much higher than BotW or some JRPGs. It often means losing souls and having to redo (sometimes) a large part of the map when you die.
Could be and i hadnt considered that. But i was never a fan of NG+. I always prefer to do a fresh run instead.
He is mistaken about many things. Mostly about how somehow the satisfaction of overcoming hardship would be eliminated if people had a choice to not face it. The people that choose to make the game easier need it to.be to overcome the hardship at all. The reason they need it is because they can't get the satisfaction he feels he needs to give. Difficulty is reletive and even on easy it can be a challenge that has all of the same trappings the games give to the people that can do it now.
No. The game is designed for a specific audience. Nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone is able to enjoy the game if they want to. What comes into question is which barriers are artistic and which are just barriers. What is there to experience in gt7 apart from what the fans consume on the surface. Is there a sense of accomplishment or fullfillment that is separate from the racing experience. I have no idea. What I can tell you is Elden Ring is much more than just how hard it is. In fact, I'd say the difficulty is really a very small portion of the game. The sights, the lore, and the visual presentation if the game stand on their own. They are just behind barriers that some people feel there should be no way around.
Nothing you posted makes the director "mistaken".
You just don't agree
Honestly, these kinds of arguments are so silly. There's really nothing that indicates that if they didn't add Ashes, more time and resources would have been spent on something else. That's not how software projects tend to work.
I like how Kyra acknowledges that GT7 is for a specific audience... But for some reason elden ring isn't?
I edited my post, but the point stands. Not developing Ashes wouldn't have necessarily meant spending more time on something else. You can't definitively say that you lost out on something else because Ashes was developed.
Difficulty is relative. If I find something easy and someone else finds it hard and they feel like they have overcome something great when they best it. Then I can't tell that person they are wrong and neither can Miyazaki. He is mistaken and needs a better conception about the varying mindset ad capabilities of people outside his gaming audience.
The specific encounter w/ Tree Sentinel (which is what I was explicitly referring to) is literally right outside of the first place you can safely respawn at.
I'm thinking of the rock golem thing, which I guess qualifies as early enough?
Why is ok for GT7 to be made for a specific audience but Elden Ring has to be accessible for every skill level?
I explained that it has multiple facets to appreciate while aknowleging my ignorance about gt7 because I haven't played it. What people are stuck on is the identity that Elden Ring would be lesser if it gave people that option to not engage with it's hardship the way you do. Because it's fan base cannot see past it's difficulty as it's identity.
Demon's Souls literally became successful because it was hard when AAA games were piss easy.
Denying the series owns its popularity in great part to its difficulty is just denying reality at this point.
Not necessairly sure. But maybe. Are you asking if i would trade a system i think its bad and not use for a chance of something i would? Hell yes, there is no downside. A 1% chance of getting a single weapon more versus something that doesnt exist for me? I'll take it. Call me selfish, i dont care. You know how many AAA SP games i liked in the last decade? From games and DOOM. Thats it. So im pretty confident in saying that 99.9% of even players with disabilities have more games they enjoy than i do. So yes i will be selfish in the handful i like. And im not even against an easy mode. If they do it they do it. But if you're gonna ask me if i rather have the few games i like appeal even more to me or appeal to me less but appeal more to millions of players i'll go with me. Sorry. Maybe i'll change my mind when there's more than 1 game a year that i enjoy. But there isn't. Not in the AAA SP space.
From this roguelike enthusiast's perspective, it's both profoundly sad but also a little funny how irrelevant that genre is to the majority of Era, as it skates by with nary a mention in these discussions.
Even the New Yorker article in the OP that sparked this fire boldly claims, "Miyazaki has created the most difficult games of the century", and I'm like... come again!??? Broaden your horizons there buddy.
I still don't see why anyone is owed the right to complete any particular game. Souls games are the only ones catching this level of heat for stating that up front.
He's mistaken and needs better understanding because he has a design philosophy and sticks to it?
maybe he has a specific audience in mind much like how GT7 is for a specific audience.
I don't know anything about gt7. So I can't speak to what the game contains. But if someone feels that the game obstructs their enjoyment because there are aspects of the game they want to appreciate. They should be free to express that.
Yeah, i'm a huge shmup guy (see the avatar) and... lol Elden Ring is definitely way easier to complete than 1CCing a 2-loop Cave shmup.
that isn't a fault of the design of the game, i hate to say it.
He is mistaken if he feels an easier mode eliminates his philosophy. If he understood the capabilities of people beyond his audience he would see that it does not. His vision is still intact. Noone is messing up what is already there. It's making a similar experience for other to enjoy and leaving the original idea alone. When you play you are not conscious of everyone else's experience as you experience you own. So why does it matter? Easy doesn't replace what is already there.
This is really all besides the point, because I'm not asking you any of this. I'm telling you that this:
is silly, because you're talking as if you've already made up your mind that the Ashes has taken up development resources that would have been used elsewhere, when there is absolutely no way you, me or anyone else can know what happened in From's development process without seeing it for ourselves or From straight up telling us. We might as well speculate that From had developers who were twiddling their thumbs, and that's why we got Ashes. We can't know either way.
So in short: you may have been affected by the inclusion of Ashes, or you may not. But you can't make definite claims that you were.
Ok just say that instead of like, gatekeeping?
No it would not unless you gatekeep and care about someone else's experience.
Years ago they said they wouldn't have a decent co-op system. Times change. And From as a dev has changed. There are so many QoL features in Elden Ring that souls fans would've derided years ago. People are still letting their voice be heard and it's working. "ArTIsTIc InTeNt" or not.
Yes I am asking for proof of that because by my knowledge the most common build in these games is NOT faith/intelligence with an emphasis on long range game breaking sorcery. 👏
Preach.
Is the most completed mode in DMC the automatic mode?
If a person beat DMC on hard they would feel the accomplishment of beating it on hard and then post on Era about it. While the person that beat it on easy couldn't possibly feel any accomplishment because the mode was easy. The director told me it was this way.
Everyone should want this.
And the way that you make sure everyone can have a similar experience is through accessibility options. Not difficulty modes. Colorblind options, customizable controls, good subtitle options, etc. all allow as many players as possible to experience these games while "leaving the original idea alone".
Kind of? There are a lot of moments early on in BOTW where you are going to be underpowered with not very good equipment and able to encounter field enemies that will absolutely wreck you. The difference is the the punishment for death isn't as severe.
What's the punishment for dying right next to the first Grace in Limgrave, with no other enemies between you and Tree Sentinel?
absolutely nothing-- that was also part of my initial point.
it's showing you from the very get go that enemies in the field can be overwhelmingly hard and to not just charge into whatever you see roaming around.
The original idea is left alone. It even has its own label called Normal or whatever they want to call it. True Tarnished Experience. TTE. I beat the game on TTE, did you? No? God you suck.
Absolutely everything is fair game except for easy eh? I'm sorry, that is absurd. Make the game accessable to absolutely everyone except the less skilled. Great idea.
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