EA hit with lawsuit over 'scripting' in FIFA 21

[Aldi]

The issue isn't just rubber banding or scripting. Unlike other games FUT is a heavy MTX based mode that entices players to open packs to obtain high value/rated players. If EA are scripting these players to have lower stats and behaviours during game play then they are misleading people. There are people that spend £1000s on packs to obtain players to give them the edge when EA are scripting matches.

EA should be transparent with scripting and warn players spending money that the base stats on these cards could lower during certain situations.

 

[abellwillring]

Oh, so this hasn't been proven to be real then?

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You can look at the video I posted above. Sometimes the AI does stupid things at the end of halves which makes it look like it's "scripted" but honestly, the computer's AI is pretty bad a lot of the time, lol. In this scenario they should have just done a short pass to their nearby teammate who could dribble the clock out but they sent it towards a crowded midfield and we countered in seconds to get a draw. The mode I play, Pro Clubs, has no MTX and still experiences the same thing as FUT. It's just a part of FIFA and is presumably meant to keep it exciting and unpredictable.

EA hit with lawsuit over 'scripting' in FIFA 21

There is no doubt that the game has some element of this. My friend/gamer group has been playing Pro Clubs together for nearly a decade. I'd say one team or the other scores in the 45th or 90th minute effectively every game. We call it getting "FIFA'ed" or a "FIFA'ning." With that being said...

www.resetera.com

 

[mclem]

Discovery is not a magic word that allows you to review anything you want.

You must have some evidence of your claim and a reasonable basis that more evidence exists in the discovery materials.

For example, you can't just file a lawsuit against Microsoft and claim that Windows is stealing your personal information, so you want to review the source code.

If they can convince a judge that what they claim is likely, they may be able to get a judge to agree to have an independent expert review source code under seal.

But there's no way that EA is going to be forced to just turn over source code for the public record.

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Yeah, I thought there would be some limitations. But when gambling is involved, there are independent bodies who do have authority to scrutinise code, aren't there? This could be another flank of the "are these things gambling?" discussion.

 

[EvilBoris]

Waits for the next thread that says "Why game AI no good like Halo and FEAR?!"

 

[ItIsOkBro]

So much of Fifa and NHL seem out of the players control...it's just RNG all the way. You kick the ball, shoot the puck, whatever, the game rolls a dice and the goalkeeper lets it in or not. How else are you supposed to simulate fatigue, last minute pushes etc other than decreasing or increasing stats that feed into the RNG? Okay, maybe it leads to dumb shit happening at the end but you were barely in control of anything up to that point to begin with.

 

[Eeyore]

Imagine invisibly boosting a player's stats right after they purchase a microtransaction, and then secretly lowering their stats over time until they purchase another one.

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They aren't capable enough to do this. I'm serious when I say that. They have proven this time and time again.

It's been a long time since I've played FIFA. I played way back before they ever had the in-game purchasing stuff.. Ultimate Team or whatever its called. I've always been kind of curious about checking it out again. But what I never fully understood is if your Ultimate Team purchases carried over into the next release of the game or not?

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They don't. You can transfer FIFA Points over I believe.

 

[Gloomz]

A form of adaptive difficulty and scripted 'last moment' events has been a thing since Mario Kart.

A ton of games have this functionality. What they're really bitching about is FUT packs.

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Yeah, don't most racing games have something like this? AI cars going slow enough for you to pass, or suddenly speeding up faster than what the max speed should be to catch up and make the race more 'exciting'.

 

[OtakuCoder]

Yeah, don't most racing games have something like this? AI cars going slow enough for you to pass, or suddenly speeding up faster than what the max speed should be to catch up and make the race more 'exciting'.

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The reason why it's (allegedly) a problem here is that the FUT mode has a real-money component. Winning matches in this mode grants you more of the in-game currency which means a player who wants to scrounge up enough to buy more packs will need to buy more with real money the less they win from the game.

If EA is screwing with the difficulty behind-the-scenes then the real-money component turns this into a massive issue. Imagine if a game in a casino was found to be rigged in a way that made winning harder than its disclosed odds. The regulators would slam the hell out of it. This isn't someone suing over the RNG in Mario Party.

 

[Deleted member 17676]

So much of Fifa and NHL seem out of the players control...it's just RNG all the way. You kick the ball, shoot the puck, whatever, the game rolls a dice and the goalkeeper lets it in or not. How else are you supposed to simulate fatigue, last minute pushes etc other than decreasing or increasing stats that feed into the RNG? Okay, maybe it leads to dumb shit happening at the end but you were barely in control of anything up to that point to begin with.

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Doesn't help everything is so assisted. Would be interesting if they made passing or even shooting manual. But they would do that because would mean harder game for casuals.

 

[Skulldead]

I want to sue Firaxis for X-COM. No fucking way I should be missing these shots!

Damages to my mental health

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if this was link to p2w mechanic i would gladly go with you, but this is not the case like fifa....

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

I've been playing NCAA 14 because I'm a degenerate, and it always cracks me up how my 99 overall team gives up 500 passing yards to literally everyone because I jump out to a huge lead and then the scripting takes over.

 

[Damaniel]

Can they actually prove it? like would EA be forced to bring their engineers and testify for whether it exists or not? cuz otherwise I can't see how they can prove it.

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If the suit made it to trial, there would be a discovery phase, and presumably the attorneys could ask to see all relevant communication (e-mails, voice mails, chat logs, etc), source code, and design documents produced by EA before and during the relevant time period.

 

[Gnorman]

"rubber banding" has been a thing in games forever. i'm not a fifa player so maybe it's just my ignorance but i'm not quite seeing the connection between matches being close forcing me to buy a microtransaction.

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There isn't one.

 

[tobascodagama]

Again, the allegation is that the game is manipulating matches behind the scenes against players who have not purchased MTX recently and in favour of those who have. This is not far fetched because EA took out a patent for a technology that does exactly this.

Companies file patents they don't use all the time, but it's not like a tin-foil hat conspiracy to speculate that a company might be using a patent that it holds. Painting the lawsuit as a priori unfounded is just... I'll be polite and call it naive.

 

[Damaniel]

"rubber banding" has been a thing in games forever. i'm not a fifa player so maybe it's just my ignorance but i'm not quite seeing the connection between matches being close forcing me to buy a microtransaction.

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The argument being made is that in order to improve 'engagement', games are made dynamically harder as the player's skill improves (or easier if the player's skill is lower). That's actually a good thing in single player modes, especially if the built in difficulty levels are too easy or too hard - no game is fun if you're constantly winning 10-0 or more against every CPU team. However, when you have an online mode where 'performance' is at least partially tied to the designated skill level of the members of that player's team, and those members can be purchased using real money, there's an incentive to bump up difficulty over time in such a way that the player ends up feeling as though their players (or more specifically, their cards) aren't performing well enough, hence driving those players to buy more packs to regain skill parity. If you do it overtly, people wouldn't buy more cards, so the argument being made is that these things happen behind the scenes without any way for the player to definitively know.

I strongly suspect that they're doing this and that discovery will prove it if this ever goes to trial. I'm also really surprised about how salty how many people are about this suit, since a win for the plantiffs would change that way that UT works, and some people are afraid of having their shiny toy taken away. Putting a misbehaving company in their place is far more important than a football game.

 

[rsfour]

Sounds like a sports game. Regardless of company.

 

[Brooks04]

This is prevalent in all of their NHL games as well. Frequent ice tilt.

 

[MRYEAH]

Imagine invisibly boosting a player's stats right after they purchase a microtransaction, and then secretly lowering their stats over time until they purchase another one.

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The same thing occurs in Madden with the 2 minute drill at the end of each half
QB's no matter rating, difficulty or situation they don't throw incomplete passes the line protects better and more often they are guranteed at least a FG before halftime
It's further proof there is no simulation football in Madden

 

[aiswyda]

This does not happen. The scripting in FIFA is agnostic to what mode you're playing in and does not have anything to do with spending money. What they're claiming is that by losing due to it, you may feel pressured into buying a new pack because maybe you'll get a player that can make your team better. No one is directly punished or rewarded for buying packs though.

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oh, I see.

I mean that seems less manipulative and more just like an unfun game design. Why do people play it if this is an issue?

 

[abellwillring]

oh, I see.

I mean that seems less manipulative and more just like an unfun game design. Why do people play it if this is an issue?

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Well, when you get a result thanks to it then there's a definite sense of relief/justice! A love-hate relationship I guess? For me personally, I have a group of guys I play with and it's just as much to hang out with my friends as anything. I used to enjoy FUT a lot but went away from it due to the time investment which is substantial. Fortunately I only spent around $20-30 that year on points which is very easy to do in these kinds of games. In their defense though, they do give out a LOT of packs for free these days if you do put in the time.

 

[Tbm24]

if this was link to p2w mechanic i would gladly go with you, but this is not the case like fifa....

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Generally speaking, spending money on FUT packs for better cards/players wouldn't prevent this from happening either. So, unless someone wants to correct me, I'm not seeing the p2w angle of this. I haven't played FUT in a long time, but the answer has never been to spend more money for better players. I've tried, it doesn't work out when the game is going to decide to fuck with you.

 

[padlock]

There's a huge difference in 'rubber banding' in order to keep a game interesting versus attempting to get people to spend more money on micro transactions. Is EA guilty of the latter?

 

[Cake Boss]

Lol good. This 'momentum' system isn't just in their FIFA series but also made it to the NHL series. The community calls it "Ice Tilt". Its pretty apparent when its the 3rd period and you are up by a couple of goals and dominated all game, then suddenly your players are losing the pucks for no reason, the other goalie is making amazing saves, while your goalie is letting in floaters, you will be unable to win faceoffs, and any hit is a penalty against you.

Its straight garbage, and fuck this company.

 

[NateDog]

I mean yeah this happens and it happens in PES too although not to the extent that it happens in FIFA. I could have sworn I read something here a while ago on this or maybe it was EA advertising their "dynamic" engine or whatever it was that practically spelled it out without saying it directly.

 

[Tempy]

Scripting, rubberbanding, momentum, adaptive difficulty, AI Director, or whatever it's called in a game isn't illegal; almost every modern game uses something like that. As for "forcing" someone to buy more microtransactions - I don't quite see it as these systems in general can also go the player's way. Gonna be difficult to convince a judge that EA is doing something illegal.

 

[Tygre]

Is EA guilty of the latter?

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Until proven otherwise, no, they're not.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Is FUT the main mode in modern FIFA games - or is there still a meaty package if you ignore it?