why would they require you ask permission? that's not what's being argued here. that's no different than being a part of a rec sport league which is fine, that's not a creative endeavour
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EA (And Other Studios) Apparently Have Policies That Require Developers To Gather Permission Before Producing Any Creative Works Outside Of Work
- Thread starter Deleted member 18944
- Start date
Because the person I was responding to was literally arguing exactly that, with a teacher wrestling on the weekends and going on to become more popular. You seriously don't see a comparison between that and someone that might compete in various fighting games?
This is happening outside the gaming sector as well.
I'm in the hvac union in California local 104. I was not trained by them I received my training from a nonunion competitor. When I joined the union I had to sign an agreement that I would not work on any hvac system other than through my employer. I'm technically not even allowed to fix my own system if it breaks down. I can do very simple maintenance to my own like change an air filter for my own system but if I where to even change my parents filter for them I could be kicked out of the union for doing so.
I'm in the hvac union in California local 104. I was not trained by them I received my training from a nonunion competitor. When I joined the union I had to sign an agreement that I would not work on any hvac system other than through my employer. I'm technically not even allowed to fix my own system if it breaks down. I can do very simple maintenance to my own like change an air filter for my own system but if I where to even change my parents filter for them I could be kicked out of the union for doing so.
i would argue that wrestling *is* a creative endeavour
if your fighting game competitions began to grow in such a scope that it required you to consistently miss multiple days a week at work then, yeah, they might talk to you about it. but i don't think it's a good or fair comparison
I should keep screens of this as the new textbook definition of "Era".
"You are all wrong, and here is some Dutch text showing why. Also, since no one wants to agree with me, I am off to bed. C ya internet nerds, I have a life you see."
I had a clause requiring me to ask for permission for any secondary paid work both in my consulting job and in my public service job (both Germany). I never had secondary stuff so I don't know how it is handled.
Just because the contract says "we own everything" doesn't mean they own everything.
In many countries, creative work made without the resources of the employer and outside their competitive sphere is super ok! The contract can't be enforced. And it won't be because that's how lawyers are.
I think a lot of folks in here don't realize that you can go to court over anything. It just takes a while once you're in court to get it sorted out correctly.
Like I hate to sound like a jerk but folks are coming across real immature. We're all on the same side?
In many countries, creative work made without the resources of the employer and outside their competitive sphere is super ok! The contract can't be enforced. And it won't be because that's how lawyers are.
I think a lot of folks in here don't realize that you can go to court over anything. It just takes a while once you're in court to get it sorted out correctly.
Like I hate to sound like a jerk but folks are coming across real immature. We're all on the same side?
The situation with being a teacher is different though. They might have to take care not to bring their profession into disrepute, which might occur with backyard WWE type wrestling but not greco-roman wrestling, for example.
Never asked, not where my interests lie =)
No, I'm sorry I gave that impression.
They wanted me to un-resign, and to sweeten the pot, essentially, they said it was ok if I worked on personal projects on my own.
I mean, this is pretty standard, but the actual problem I have with it is this:
I mean, if you're a programmer and you write a piece of software relating to the field your company is in, on your work computer, maybe even when you're at work. Fine. Even if you do this at home, you have gained knowledge in this field through your company and use it to write your own stuff. I can see it.
But everything unrelated to the field you work in. Honestly, the actual problem I see here is that you even have to ask if it's okay. Seems ludicrous. That nobody would ever block something you do isn't the point. It's that they could try.
EDIT: I should take a look at my own contract, because I'm pretty sure my non compete only extends towards side activities in the same field and shit I do on company time
I mean, if you're a programmer and you write a piece of software relating to the field your company is in, on your work computer, maybe even when you're at work. Fine. Even if you do this at home, you have gained knowledge in this field through your company and use it to write your own stuff. I can see it.
But everything unrelated to the field you work in. Honestly, the actual problem I see here is that you even have to ask if it's okay. Seems ludicrous. That nobody would ever block something you do isn't the point. It's that they could try.
EDIT: I should take a look at my own contract, because I'm pretty sure my non compete only extends towards side activities in the same field and shit I do on company time
Ah, I see. Well, you did the right thing leaving that place anyway.
The crazy part is that all EU law is written in English. There's no reason to not provide an English text.
The claim that you can't sign a contract that gives away all your IP rights in the EU is obviously untrue. Exclusive record industry contracts are exactly that - you give away your recording copyrights in exchange for money.
That doesn't necessarily mean any company you go work for can claim ownership of everything you do, but from the EA posters ITT it seems that's not even what's really happening. Just EA wants to clear things before their staff do stuff, which is 100% normal for big companies and governments (and why I'm a commie who thinks we should do away with big companies and government, but that's another matter 😸)
Yeah could be a cultural issue but based on the past 3 pages it could also just be you lol
have a wonderful work week though :)
Probably.
The fact that some people just found out about about it and even more, that they get aaaangry about it is laughable.
Work for a small startup and this is not in my contract, or at least as broad. The clauses there prohibit me from offering professional services elsewhere for the type of work I do but not other types of work.
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In general, clauses like this are to prevent lawsuit and protect both parties.
It's best for everyone to think of them as mandatory notification. 99% of the time, the company is going to go "have fun" and that'll be the end of it. But for those 1% of cases where the company has something similar in development (that the employee may not know about, but could be exposed to) the notification catches a problem before it becomes one.
To be fair, he cited local dutch law from 1912 (ofc updated) which may not be officially translated to English.
I'm familiar with non-compete clauses and the issue of IP in terms of related works/research (especially if it involved company resources in any way and at any point), but I've never worked in an industry with a case like the one given in the OP (e.g. if I decided to write and publish a fantasy book on my own time while employed in a pharmaceutical company). I'm surprised it seems so common, but maybe that's more of a thing in creative industries.
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Hm, it seems the wording of those contracts is important here. It's pretty common here as well. I have such a paragraph in my contract (software dev) and so has my gf (she is in tech support). Both are not phrased as "all creative work" but instead "no work besides this one" basically. The key here is work as in for the monies! To do it legally correct you need a registered small business here anyway. And as soon as you want to make money and register yourself, you have to ask for allowance. This is granted most of the time though. We both have those and so have a lot of my colleagues (for software dev work that is)
The main idea (to my understanding) is basically when working 8h a day for x, the rest of the day should be for the person to relax, sleep, etc. When using it for other endeavors to make money the person could perhaps not be as productive because the free time was also used to work. Daily work is limited to 10 hours a day here as well - at least on paper haha. That is all of those combined.
The main idea (to my understanding) is basically when working 8h a day for x, the rest of the day should be for the person to relax, sleep, etc. When using it for other endeavors to make money the person could perhaps not be as productive because the free time was also used to work. Daily work is limited to 10 hours a day here as well - at least on paper haha. That is all of those combined.
Was just discussing this with someone else (I work in a lab for a big worldwide company) and there's a clause in my contract saying that any ideas I come up with while working there belong to the company. He was super shocked when I told him this. It's not a practice I agree with but it is common.
A pal of mine worked for EA Motive and their policy about personal projects is what made him move to another AAA game company a dew months ago.
The company where he works now allows him to work and publish his personal work.
As for my current employer, I can create and publish whatever I want as long as it's not in competition with what my company makes (social casino games).
That's pretty convenient since all I want to do is either a comic, an RPG or a visual novel on PC.
I worked for another gaming company a few years ago. It was mostly work for hire.
They had a board before which people had to present their personal gaming projects' ideas before they can work on it.
If the board approves of it, the project gets help from the company to come to fruition.
If the board disapproves of it, the project doesn't get the go and since it becomes the company's intellectual property, the creator cannot do anything with it.
The company where he works now allows him to work and publish his personal work.
As for my current employer, I can create and publish whatever I want as long as it's not in competition with what my company makes (social casino games).
That's pretty convenient since all I want to do is either a comic, an RPG or a visual novel on PC.
I worked for another gaming company a few years ago. It was mostly work for hire.
They had a board before which people had to present their personal gaming projects' ideas before they can work on it.
If the board approves of it, the project gets help from the company to come to fruition.
If the board disapproves of it, the project doesn't get the go and since it becomes the company's intellectual property, the creator cannot do anything with it.
I'm pretty sure this topic is about Sony last night, what happened?
Edit: Oh, it's a different thread and is dead already.
Edit: Oh, it's a different thread and is dead already.
My current employment contract has a clause like this as well, along with a clause that prohibits you from using any company knowledge or techniques you learned while working at the company to create your own competing product/service while still employed.
So standard stuff as far as I know.
So standard stuff as far as I know.
Yeah keep posting those passive aggressive emoticons to own them!!!111!!
Because your arguments didn't.
Here is the California labor code related to your question
The labor code itself:
"2870. (a) Any provision in an employment agreement which provides
that an employee shall assign, or offer to assign, any of his or her
rights in an invention to his or her employer shall not apply to an
invention that the employee developed entirely on his or her own time
without using the employer's equipment, supplies, facilities, or
trade secret information except for those inventions that either:
(1) Relate at the time of conception or reduction to practice of
the invention to the employer's business, or actual or demonstrably
anticipated research or development of the employer; or
(2) Result from any work performed by the employee for the
employer.
(b) To the extent a provision in an employment agreement purports
to require an employee to assign an invention otherwise excluded from
being required to be assigned under subdivision (a), the provision
is against the public policy of this state and is unenforceable."
So, if on your own time, at home, you do a side project for say, a new coffee machine, then probably your employer can't claim any rights, but if your side project is related to your employer's business (say a new video game), then things may get complicated
Yeah this part is important too. Your contract may have stuff like in the OP post but IIRC it usually also has a clause in there saying something to the effect that "the terms of this agreement do not supersede existing laws/statutes/etc. where applicable" precisely for this reason.
This matter is not harmonised at the European level, and is therefore regulated by national laws. However, as a general principle in Europe, the rights to intellectual property developed by an employee in the course of his employment duties usually belong to the employer. Sometimes an assignment is mandatory, such as where employee works (inventions) are assigned by an employee to the employer because of the employment contract. On the other hand it is generally acknowledged that the rights to intellectual property (e.g. inventions) developed "on the side", with no relation to the employment relationship and without use of company resources, is the property of the employee.
Theres nothing odd about this at all. I work on airplanes, I would get in trouble if I was trying to come up with my own shit instead of doing my job.
This is more or less what I thought was standard, but based on many replies in this thread, maybe not.
I'm sure this has been mentioned but this happens with teachers aswell. If you are employed by a University or College it's assumed material you make (including students) is owned by the institution. I think the idea is that it's that if you created something while in employment, you likely used their resources somehow.
It was for film mind you, as students we signed contracts that said anything we made outwith college could be claimed to be college property and we even had a lighting lecturer who went so far as to retire to publish a book then got rehired. My old job had clauses about everything you made could be their property too.
I don't think it's a blanket, this is ours, clause but more that if they felt so inclined they could request ownership. I'm sure these things are either not really enforced or easily argued against because I barely hear any occurrences of it actually happening. I've not read the full thread though maybe some popped up. I feel like if it was actually enforced we'd hear more salty stories about it.
It was for film mind you, as students we signed contracts that said anything we made outwith college could be claimed to be college property and we even had a lighting lecturer who went so far as to retire to publish a book then got rehired. My old job had clauses about everything you made could be their property too.
I don't think it's a blanket, this is ours, clause but more that if they felt so inclined they could request ownership. I'm sure these things are either not really enforced or easily argued against because I barely hear any occurrences of it actually happening. I've not read the full thread though maybe some popped up. I feel like if it was actually enforced we'd hear more salty stories about it.
Similar thing at play here and it stretches to creative works outside of gaming. You gotta check in first or risk the confrontation later.
I don't know what that means, what's a sovereign citizen in this context?
EDIT and FYI I'm currently under a similar contract at work, I just don't think it's right.
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I know that union. I work in the industry as well but on the IT and systems side for Omniduct and we are a non union manufacturer.
We have similar agreements as everyone else commenting here at my work to. Especially with what I deal with since we create a lot of custom systems and back end services for manufacturing duct.
It's pretty much all industries.
I always get a kick out of people on this site acting outraged at problems that they, for some reason, think are specific to the games industry ("crunch" comes to mind).
you want to change these things,you gotta take on capitalism...not just an industry.
it's not a corporate defence, it's just a basic understanding of how contracts and laws work
no one is arguing that companies should own the entirety of your creative output, just an understanding why these clauses (which DO NOT mean that a company owns all of your creative output) exists
