Y'all don't find it funny that all these insiders and journalists are just now coming out of the woodwork after Dusk Golem and Ono's retirement and basically not providing any additional information?
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Don't give me hope Natash- I mean Max.
(Puts Ronin suit back on until a 2k20 Jin Saotome appears)
Giant Bombcast 647: The Historical Gamer Strikes Again!
If you're looking for LIVE REAX to the breaking Halo Infinite delay, impressions of the Avengers beta, and expectations for Rocksteady's Suicide Squad game a...youtu.be
Where there's smoke there's fire.
Side note: Holy hell at Ben saying "V didn't really have a hook. The difference between Street Fighter IV and Street Fighter V is like nothing."
SF5 obviously looks way better visually than SF4, but they absolutely have extremely similar artstyles.
I remember telling my friends at Capcom during E3 when the game was first playable in person that visually, 5 looked like 4 if you stood 10 feet away. We know there's very little truth to that statement...but if you see through the eyes of someone who 'Just wants to buy a new pretty Street Fighter game', the justification isn't there for many to buy 5 since they feel 4 filled that gap already.
This extremely random mention from someone who doesn't really keep up with fighting games cements the sentiment that casual non-FG buyers weren't given enough of a reason to commit beyond SF4/USF4, at least visually.
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That's actually part of the reason why I feel like SFVI may go for a more radical art style change. And given how other Capcom games have been going, it may be more of another attempt to go in the realism direction than to further commit to the anime direction (albeit not fully committing to realism like the recent RE games & DMC5 have). Granted, those who claim that SFV looks like SFIV are wrong. But as you said, it sadly comes down to perception (especially for the casual crowd).
Though in my ideal scenario, Capcom would go for an art style not unlike the sketches that were made for the Season 5 characters (but I'd imagine we only got those because the actual character renders weren't ready).
I straight-up said "This is a next-gen game?" when V was first revealed. Wasn't until that Laura trailer when they had an up-close of her ink swirls that got me "Oohhh, that's what's next-gen about it".
I know we could talk for hours about the animations... and also going for a different art style. But goddamn was the leap from Injustice 1 to 2 and MKX to MK11 fucking massive. Even to a casual viewer you can tell which ones were the "next-gen" games.
MVCI especially didn't visually look like a leap forward from the previous game at all and the same could be said for some about SF5. The lack of budget is pretty astounding the more we learn about the development of each title.
Well, hopefully SF6 comes around with an art style that blows the socks off of everyone. Will be sad if it just looks like a more detailed 5.
Edit: the best way I can put it is that no one looks at Monster Hunter World and confuses it with the old games. When someone sees SF6 they need to actually think SF6.
Damn even more people coming out saying the exact same thing. Who would've though it :kappa:
The future isSean now old man
The future is
I'm not sure why people in the fgc are beating around the bush over their beef with Ono. I kind of feel like the worst of capcom side fgc is the unspoken words and insider whispers.
Like, it's hard to sympathize with Ono skeptics when there's no actual claim being made against him specifically. When you combine the vagueness around it with the general idea that Ono had the unfortunate job of telling people no (as producers generally do) and also being responsible for enacting the goals established by the executive wing, it's no surprise people would blame him because his job was essentially to keep his team on time and under budget.
Not to mention that it pushes focus away from the community as well, who are equally responsible for not telling capcom when they're messing up more directly. As recently as MVCI, we had many members of this community and influencers in the FGC who refused to acknowledge MVCIs problems until it was far too late and irreparable damage had been dealt.
It would be nice to sum it up as one person fucked up the whole capcom fighting game decision but, frankly, it seems to me that Capcom has systemic issues that extend far beyond some admittedly questionable leadership.
I'll gladly hope for improvement, but I honestly see the loss of talent around various departments of Capcom (including some of the MHW staff and the Phoenix Wright team) combined with a shambling FG division to be incredibly worrisome.
Like, it's hard to sympathize with Ono skeptics when there's no actual claim being made against him specifically. When you combine the vagueness around it with the general idea that Ono had the unfortunate job of telling people no (as producers generally do) and also being responsible for enacting the goals established by the executive wing, it's no surprise people would blame him because his job was essentially to keep his team on time and under budget.
Not to mention that it pushes focus away from the community as well, who are equally responsible for not telling capcom when they're messing up more directly. As recently as MVCI, we had many members of this community and influencers in the FGC who refused to acknowledge MVCIs problems until it was far too late and irreparable damage had been dealt.
It would be nice to sum it up as one person fucked up the whole capcom fighting game decision but, frankly, it seems to me that Capcom has systemic issues that extend far beyond some admittedly questionable leadership.
I'll gladly hope for improvement, but I honestly see the loss of talent around various departments of Capcom (including some of the MHW staff and the Phoenix Wright team) combined with a shambling FG division to be incredibly worrisome.
Nah...I'm not a fan of pushing the blame on as much shoulders as possible.
Top brass gets paid top money because they have to shoulder the responsibility for a lot of money and resources entrusted to them.
People aren't speaking up because it can get other people fired. If someone blows up the lid than it will become way easier to track the people down who spilled the beans. As a third party you don't get to decide when to pull this trigger. If capcom would have a backbone than they would address this issues publicly in a controlled environment and manner. But it is understandable that they want to protect the brand as much as possible. The time right now would just be right, because of the whole changing leadership and course thing.
And what do you mean with the last part? The capcom games couldn't catch a break since street fighter x tekken. The games sold way less than expected and everyone shit all over them constantly.
it's first gameplay reveal was very much an "oh, so it's just a slight step up from 4" moment for me
i do think that they differentiated it enough over time, but that first reveal was a bit of a "hmm, well as long as the game is solid" point
Let's be clear, any major changes to the fighting games division happened two years ago when they merged it under Tsujimoto's direct control and when Ono lost his power at this time. This month's resignation (forced or not) doesn't change anything to that.
So yes, it is exciting, but it's nothing new since 2 years ago.
It'd be interesting to know if the "it's hard to work with Ono" statements that came out since Dusk's rumor are from Capcom USA members or from JP development members, as it's pretty different.
Most western branches employees of a Japanese company of this size will say the same thing in terms of work difficulty (enough statements from former/current employees of Sega/Atlus/Nintendo/S-E/etc about this), mostly due to culture differences. The latter is harder to find (partly due to work culture, habits and secrecy too sadly).
Niitsuma is a different case. He was more production focused (like Ono), and left way after Ono was demoted and the divisions change, so it's weird to blame Ono on this. He says he's still working in the industry since he left Capcom a few months ago (after finishing work on RE3) so who knows. Wouldn't be surprised if he joined M-Two at a higher level since.
So yes, it is exciting, but it's nothing new since 2 years ago.
It'd be interesting to know if the "it's hard to work with Ono" statements that came out since Dusk's rumor are from Capcom USA members or from JP development members, as it's pretty different.
Most western branches employees of a Japanese company of this size will say the same thing in terms of work difficulty (enough statements from former/current employees of Sega/Atlus/Nintendo/S-E/etc about this), mostly due to culture differences. The latter is harder to find (partly due to work culture, habits and secrecy too sadly).
Neo_G leaving Capcom had nothing to do with Ono, but because he was tired of his management position and because he wasn't involved in direct development anymore (unlike Ono, he had a development background rather than production). He left Capcom in good terms, so who knows, but at the moment he's effectively retired from the industry since he left SNK last year.
Niitsuma is a different case. He was more production focused (like Ono), and left way after Ono was demoted and the divisions change, so it's weird to blame Ono on this. He says he's still working in the industry since he left Capcom a few months ago (after finishing work on RE3) so who knows. Wouldn't be surprised if he joined M-Two at a higher level since.
Considering how hard Ono was worked by higher-ups and how hard he worked himself, it's no stretch to believe that that pressure was also pushed on the people working for/with him. Something that stuck out to me in his resignation letter was that he noted he was trying to reach out to companies and individuals he'd worked with, humbly asking for understanding. Maybe he's had his own feeling that he'd given co-workers a hard time? Maybe publicly stating that he planned to reach out showed that he's aware people have things to say about him?
This is just conjecture on my part, and my reading of that paragraph of his is probably just confirmation bias at work. But that's what came to mind listening to these recent videos reacting to his leaving.
This is just conjecture on my part, and my reading of that paragraph of his is probably just confirmation bias at work. But that's what came to mind listening to these recent videos reacting to his leaving.
How is losing the lead SF6 development role "nothing new"? It's huge!?
But isn't that what Ono was in charge of at the time Neo_G left? He was head of all of that after MvC3.
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Yeah the division totally didn't drastically change a few months ago
Not at all
General manager of management lmao
It's meant to be General Manager of Management Department 2 (the fighting game division basically) but yeah it does look like it just says General Manager of Management lmao
Ono was put back on lower role duties, that's the whole point.
Was he on SF6? Sure, even after all his demotions he was still executive producer for the SF franchise only (not other fighting games). He wasn't director for it though, nor did his recent resignation have an impact on the whole division, as his demotion two years ago had a bigger one.
Ono was in charge when Neo_G left yeah. But if you check various credits, Neo_G wasn't under Ono since a good while, and he already said why he left Capcom. It's not some secret:
Nothing more. It happens often in Japan that someone being pushed into a management position prefers to resign after a while to get back into proper game development.
Especially when you weren't a producer, as your role doesn't change much if you were one before (like Ono).
You should probably check what happened before that, and what those roles mean.Yeah the division totally didn't drastically change a few months ago
Not at all
A rare good article from eventhubs on the topic:
Ono lost his division head position at the time to be put under Tsujimoto's direct authority. General Manager is under the division head, and has less duties and responsibilities.
Esports business division was just organizational/PR/marketing for a little while and was handed to other people (Yuasa in the title, amongst others).
I'm confused why you're downplaying this when that's literally what the thread and all the recent fuss is about.
He wasn't director for SFV either, he was executive producer, which is the lead role for a game at Capcom.
Thanks for mentioning this. I just checked this out. Some of what Jeff said:
Ono chat starts around 1 hr 48 min mark and ends at the 1 hr 54 min mark.
Giant Bombcast 647: The Historical Gamer Strikes Again!
If you're looking for LIVE REAX to the breaking Halo Infinite delay, impressions of the Avengers beta, and expectations for Rocksteady's Suicide Squad game a...
Where there's smoke there's fire.
Side note: Holy hell at Ben saying "V didn't really have a hook. The difference between Street Fighter IV and Street Fighter V is like nothing."
Late edit: I've updated the link above to point directly to the YT video of the Bombcast at the correct timestamp.
How Jeff acts while saying that part about public persona vs what people working with someone say is pretty interesting. You can tell he's trying to word things very catefully and was almost trying to hold back like he was reluctant to say too much explicitly. This seems like a common thing with people reacting to this news.
I know? I think there's some misunderstanding there.
The Capcom FG division changes have been done a while ago. Ono got demoted multiple times over a span of a few years and lost power over fighting games other than SF since a good while.
Executive producer isn't the lead role for a game at Capcom though, not sure where you got that. They are the equivalent of supervisors, but still directly report to the division heads that have the real power, just like Ono did back when Inafune had his old role. On top of that, producers and directors actually have more freedom than commonly thought, it's the same everywhere in the JP games industry, with producers having a lot more power than in the west.
I know we're past this but while Mick Gordon's musical style wouldn't completely fit SF, i wouldn't complain about him being the music director lol.
For real though, Masahiro Aoki did an amazing job as lead composer, his hard rock themes are exactly what i would envision for SF and he should stay the lead for a while, as long as we can get a good bit of variety like with SFV.
For real though, Masahiro Aoki did an amazing job as lead composer, his hard rock themes are exactly what i would envision for SF and he should stay the lead for a while, as long as we can get a good bit of variety like with SFV.
A Capcom (if not most) executive producer(s) is the highest possibility you could have inside the company, aka the easiest way to throw someone under the bus, as if the project fails all responsibility comes towards that person.
When people say Ono was a lead in SF6, it basically means he probably was in a similar position as well.
Jun Takeuchi is the same at Division 1 and he basically spelled out as much within RE7's Document File (official documentation about the game's/RE Engine production).
What happened at recently wasn't the same as what happened a while ago, he had a final chance doing something worthy in a higher role (which should have been more public with the announcement of the game) and it turned out badly again.
Naga
Please, i urge you to read above.
I know all of that. You brought up that he wasn't the director for SF6 as if that was more meaningful for some reason, that's why I said he wasn't director for SF5 either, he was executive producer. That's all.
I know, that's why I mentioned it to Naga who brought up the director position.
I've read the above.
Executive producer is a lower role than Division Head. You can be both.
Jun Takeuchi is not only executive producer, but also the head of Division 1. Same for Tsujimoto.
Corporate Officers |Corporate Information | CAPCOM
Profiles of Capcom's corporate officers are described.
www.capcom.co.jp
Cool, we agree then.
I brought up he wasn't the director because that's what this thread was about at first (before Dusk backtracked on it), and because you were talking about him losing the head development role. He lost the head production role if you want to play on semantics.
I imagined so, it just needs to be said again and again because people got the wrong idea.
Dusk himself heard a while ago there has been some power disputes between producers and directors within projects, while also been mentioned constantly that producers have more influence and control over production as well.
The truth is, the misconception is mainly given because they probably meant "executive producers", because they are the ones giving the calls and with major responsibility.
Takeuchi as i mentioned, for example, gave the pitch for RE7, built the core team, dictated how much budget was allowed and oversaw every step of development as goals were achieved. His word was final and multiple changes happened because of it, including creative aspects of the title.
In that sense, RE7 was his baby more than anybody else's, which is very likely about Ono and SFV and 6.
Actually I would disagree that SFV was some low budget game. It was more like a super rushed game. There are aspects of that game that clearly pinpoint to high quality production values. However you may feel about Ken's bananahair, the character models are in general quite well made (in STARK contrast to MvCI) and the animation is entirely new and the quality is top tier (unlike how MvCI reuses plenty of animation assets from MvC3). Music also uses plenty of live instrumentation unlike SF4. Money was put into this game, it just needed more time in the oven.
The problem really is that it made for a somewhat poor first impression in Capcom Cup 2014 and it had all kinds of technical shortcomings on PS4 (dithery shadows -later fixed- and low-res texturework on characters -never fixed-). But on PC it has always looked quite nice.
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I've read the above.
Executive producer is a lower role than Division Head. You can be both.
Jun Takeuchi is not only executive producer, but also the head of Division 1. Same for Tsujimoto.
It was the same for Ono in the past (before his demotion), and the same for Inafune before him.Corporate Officers |Corporate Information | CAPCOM
Profiles of Capcom's corporate officers are described.
The same rule applies still.
Main difference is that Takeuchi responds to a higher up and none other than himself, basically, while overseeing many projects at once and with his head over the table for Division 1.
As a executive producer, Ono had ownership of this specific project and responded to the current head of Division 2 (which i vaguely heard was a producer responsible for MHW), but SF6 itself was his responsibility to say the least.
NetherRealm fighters are definitely an exception to the rule imo. The production values of those games are insane, but they also sell extremely well because of it.
Not sure how anyone can see a game like SFV and think it costs anywhere near the same as MK?
Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat are the Goliaths of fighting games. People outside of forums probably do see them as equal when it comes to releases as they are not looking at financials or anything other then a new game. The difference in content is vast and that is what people end up walking away with.
I would love to see Capcom put the money into their flagship fighter...it deserves it.
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Probably not enough changes considering that Ono was still a major force behind SFVI's development prior to his 2nd demotion.
Also, going by what the likes of Imran, Max, Pat, & other FGC folks have been saying, it seems like it's both the CJP & CUSA folks (current & especially former) who have stories to tell regarding Ono.
I would say Mortal Kombat, Injustice, and Smash Bros are the only fighting game series that have that AAA big budget.
SFV doesn't have that amount of budget put behind it but it doesn't have to be that way.
I used to think this, but it's simply not true. The Goliaths of Fighting Games are Smash Bros and Mortal Kombat. Then would comes Tekken. Then Street Fighter.
Possibly currently...but not during the time these franchises were made famous.
Thats why it hurts so much. Smash is a beast of its own but in alot of ways SF basically gave up the throne cuz they are still stuck in the arcade days.
So if we were going to make a fighting game mount rushmore it would be MK, Smash, Tekken and SF
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He was Exec. Producer but I think for MvC he takes more the role of a traditional producer as opposed to one making tons of creative and technical decisions like in SF.