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Sep 14, 2018
4,628
duelyst.jpg


https://steamcommunity.com/games/291410/announcements/detail/1688222120329073284

I realize basically no one on this forum played this game, including me but still sad news for a game that had so much potential (4 years ago).

Looks like changing draw 2 was in fact the death of Duelyst as we all predicted, it just became a different, worse game.

RIP Duelyst, smothered in the crib.

Developed by Counterplay Games, currently working on Godfall. Good luck Godfall players.
 

Forkball

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,941
I liked the sprites. But it's one of many who tried to ride the Hearthstone coattails and didn't find an audience.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
Runeterra claiming a victim after two days, brutal.

It's weird, I like the art style and I'm hugely in favor of drawing two cards a turn - the GOAT VS System did it - but I think I played it for like an hour and it just didn't click or something? Think it might have been the grid based stuff. I dunno.
 

sheaaaa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,556
Seemed like a very cool game with a great art style but I was.never interested in online.
 

toadsworth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,077
The spritework was amazing and the turn based battlefield plus card gameplay was a unique spin, I certainly enjoyed it more than Hearthstone.

RIP
 

Strings

Member
Oct 27, 2017
31,431
Was a pretty great game when I played it. It's the only reason I'm sorta optimistic about Godfall, even though I hate the idea of a slasher/looter.
 

Giard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
167
Great game, I would say the best in its genre. As others have said, I think having a mobile version years ago would have helped them immensely.
 

Remachinate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
253
Why the heck did they drop the two card draw? Immediately killed the game for me, and I liked it a lot too up until that point.
 

Dogui

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,813
Brazil
I was really interested in this game back then, but after the tutorial i felt too lazy to learn all the rules and stuff of the game, so i decided to try again later.

Kinda sad it's dying but i can't say anything after forgetting it existed. RIP.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
R.I.P.

This game had some of the best and most awe-inducing concept/promotional art for any game ever. Truly exceptional.

duelyst-world-1.jpg

duelyst_greater_celandine_by_anton_fadeev.jpg
 

Remachinate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
253
https://archive.is/IBJio

To decrease consistency and make higher cost cards more playable. It turned a fast paced game with many options per turn, into curvestone aka "I have 4 mana, I play 4 mana card, no thinking required".

That helps understand their thinking, shortsighted as it was. But as someone who exclusively played draft, where more elements of consistency were vital to counteract the inherent variability of that game mode, it made it much less strategically appealing.
 

SkullHydra

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Feb 20, 2018
898
I never really heard much about Duelyst, but stupidly started looking into it after reading that it had been cancelled. Now I'm sad.
 
OP
OP
SubvertedTrope
Sep 14, 2018
4,628
That helps understand their thinking, shortsighted as it was. But as someone who exclusively played draft, where more elements of consistency were vital to counteract the inherent variability of that game mode, it made it much less strategically appealing.

Before the change Duelyst was a great game, afterwards it was just a hearthstone clone, they signed the death certificate right there.

Many card game enthusiasts including me left and never looked back. We told the devs exactly what would happen but they thought they had it all figured out.
 

LordGorchnik

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,301
Yeah I spent too much money on this when they were first developing it and then hated what it became. Sad to hear but I will be eyeing Godfall very very suspiciously moving forward.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
Aww, this makes me sad. I've played a ton of Duelyst in 2016 and 2017 (even after the draw-1 rule was instated), and liked the art, spritework/animations, mechanics and lore so darn much.
It's the only F2P game I've spent a notable amount of money on (not just the occasional $2.5/$5 "starter pack" a la MTGA).
 

sandboxgod

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,919
Austin, Texas
Thought the sprites were incredible when I first played and loved the gameplay. I only played a tiny bit to make sure I didnt get hooked cause I didnt want to spend a singe dime on loot boxes (card packs). I like how their kickstarter- they claimed it was not gonna be f2p. But then they got the money and went f2p + full on loot boxes.

I went to Faeria and was glad to see a different business model

Shame to see it shudder completely though cause I liked booting it up from time to time to play the little single player puzzles they had.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
Thought the sprites were incredible when I first played and loved the gameplay. I only played a tiny bit to make sure I didnt get hooked cause I didnt want to spend a singe dime on loot boxes (card packs). I like how their kickstarter- they claimed it was not gonna be f2p. But then they got the money and went f2p + full on loot boxes.
That was one of many dud decisions, albeit, sadly, the most financially-understandable one. However, what did not make sense was them hamstringing future development by tying the code to HTML5. This basically made it impossible to port the game to iOS without extensive code rewrites (which was never an option). That ultimately proved to be their undoing more than the shortsighted tempo/nerf/expansion decisions.
Heck, Spellweaver has a total player base of... 5000 people? worldwide, yet it has managed to keep the lights on thus far, since they had planned a mobile client from the very start.

I went to Faeria and was glad to see a different business model
Played it for a bit 3 years ago, still have a bunch of chests sitting unopened in my inventory, and a fair bit of those purple gems, despite not being a payer. Though gameplay felt somewhat clunky (very slow early game, very samey starting moves, somewhat chess-like in this respect), and graphics aren't to my taste.
 
OP
OP
SubvertedTrope
Sep 14, 2018
4,628
That was one of many dud decisions, albeit, sadly, the most financially-understandable one.

Eventually it was heavily implied (in private) that executive meddling had been behind some of the later missteps, so I don't blame the devs too much for what happened after the game failed to find an audience. To their credit they made a huge effort to support the game with all that single player stuff.

The earlier mistakes however were all on them and led to everything else, like the worthless Bamco thing that amounted to pretty much nothing except taking the game away from paying players in certain countries, supposedly because of US sanctions but I don't know if they ever gave a reason.

Anyway, even if CPG had not made any of their numerous mistakes I don't know if the game would have been a big success. But I am 100% sure had they not changed draw 2 the game would always have had a loyal if small playerbase that could go on pretty much forever even with no further content, sort of like Broodwar I suppose.

If they couldn't justify even server costs it means virtually no one was left playing.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
The earlier mistakes however were all on them and led to everything else, like the worthless Bamco thing that amounted to pretty much nothing except taking the game away from paying players in certain countries, supposedly because of US sanctions but I don't know if they ever gave a reason.
I never really understood why they made the deal either. It didn't seem to add much of anything. In fact, I think it lost them some players (I personally know of one which mentioned this), since before the deal you could jut pick a nickname/password and play (didn't even need an e-mail address), without requiring a Bamco account. And then there was the sanctions stuff, which reduced player access even more.
I suspect it had something to do with server infrastructure (which, ironically, ended up severely underused due to dropping playerbase) and decoupling orb sales from real money (which had some online purchase tax/gambling tax shenanigans in some places). As a whole, however, the drawbacks definitely negated any potential benefits.

Anyway, even if CPG had not made any of their numerous mistakes I don't know if the game would have been a big success. But I am 100% sure had they not changed draw 2 the game would always have had a loyal if small playerbase that could go on pretty much forever even with no further content, sort of like Broodwar I suppose.
In an ironic twist, later expansions added a bunch of random effects stuff (which nobody liked, since they clashed with the game's flow). This would have been an easy way to break tempo consistency for the original draw-2 mode without having to completely redo the mechanics. Unfortunately, CPG always had conflicting ideas (whom they tended to abandon and revive at whim), and their initial stance was "no random effects". When they abandoned the stance it was too late.
Also, I suspect the game turning into a Spike-Johnny tempobomb-fest in draw-2 mode didn't sit well with those on the devteam who tended more towards the Timmy side (to use MtG psychometrics). I seem to remember reading (I only started playing after draw-1), in some early stuff, that a not-insignificant number of draw-2 mode games ended by decking (which was considered a system flaw by at least part of the devteam).

If they couldn't justify even server costs it means virtually no one was left playing.
I think it's just Bamco clearing house in preparation for the new console generation. Duelyst was placed in Procust's Bed, and its head is sticking too far out.
 

Nordicus

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,496
Finland
Before the change Duelyst was a great game, afterwards it was just a hearthstone clone, they signed the death certificate right there.
Oh fuck off with this. You're obsessed with a single figure that has implications on card design, while ignoring an entire gameplay feature. In Hearthstone, you don't go to roping because you have to set up a 10-move lethal on a board of wraithlings. In hearthstone, you don't have your whole board afraid of getting near a suited up enemy general.

Drawing 1 card or 2, Duelyst's board-game aspect was massively important and allowed people to compete with pretty garbage decks even if they weren't good at card games per se, if they had the positoning skills, it gave the game an incredibly high skill ceiling when moving one tile off could send everything tumbling down.

What actually killed the games was
  • Amateur card design, where they didn't always account for the boardgame (see Third Wish "lasercats", Star's Fury conga lines)
  • Lore and story is all separate text loredump
  • Weird monetization post-launch with Rise of Bloodborn and Ancient Bonds
  • Developers' increasing distance from the community
  • Game format development indecision (the fuck is Rift and why did you take away my Gauntlet?)
  • Free rewards repeatedly getting stingier

Like, if you want to say the card draw rule change was a symptom of the developers having absolutely no clue about what direction they want to take the game in, sure. The rule change immediately broke the balance of previously unplayed card draw because in draw-2 world, nobody needed fucking card draw, no matter how good.

Because of draw-2, units with cost 6 or more were mostly worthless because they got way too consistently punished playing 2 cards a turn. Hailstone Prison was essentially hard removal because your max hand size is 6, that is not a good state for your game to be in.
9nBLuMq.png


Like fuck, the only reason Eternal ended up being my main card game, is because I ended up liking Eternal's MtG style deckbuilding and drafts more, and I tried it out when I hated Duelyst's meta the most (aggro Magmar playing former control tools in its deck was my breaking point).
In an ironic twist, later expansions added a bunch of random effects stuff (which nobody liked, since they clashed with the game's flow). This would have been an easy way to break tempo consistency for the original draw-2 mode without having to completely redo the mechanics. Unfortunately, CPG always had conflicting ideas (whom they tended to abandon and revive at whim), and their initial stance was "no random effects". When they abandoned the stance it was too late.

Also, I suspect the game turning into a Spike-Johnny tempobomb-fest in draw-2 mode didn't sit well with those on the devteam who tended more towards the Timmy side (to use MtG psychometrics). I seem to remember reading (I only started playing after draw-1), in some early stuff, that a not-insignificant number of draw-2 mode games ended by decking (which was considered a system flaw by at least part of the devteam).
This guy knows what's up.
 
Last edited:

Radishhead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,568
I quit around the time they started making major changes to the gameplay. Fun game while it lasted.
 

Chairman Yang

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,587
Great, great game for a while. Didn't spend any money on it because the business model was horrible F2P garbage. I'm angry that all of the great art and design will now be lost forever. Like can't the company just release the server code or something?

I'm still bitter that this wasn't the single-player game promised in the Kickstarter. Could have been the start of a popular franchise instead of another F2P corpse.
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,572
Yeah, I played it for abit but man the grind is too much. It's impossible to win against other players.
 

VN1X

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,027
Loved this game and played it for quite a while before it even came over to Steam. I took a small break after racking up over 40 hours on the Steam version only to return and find out they had added about a bazillion new cards and balancing updates. This kept on going every other month it seemed and I just kind of got overwhelmed and stopped playing. It really felt like one of those games you had to play on the daily to still keep up.

A shame though as the concept itself, art and gameplay were all top notch. Here's hoping Godfall goes well for them!
 

Chairman Yang

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,587
I don't think they could even if they wanted to. From what I understand, while CPG own the IP/art/assets, the server code is on Bamco.
That's unfortunate. I know a few sprites have been ripped. Hopefully someone can do the rest.

As for me, I might literally go to the website and save all the card images, as crazy as that sounds. I don't want this great design lost forever.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
i loved the idea of a MP tactics game, but never understood why they deprioritized mobile
From what I understood in the subreddit, CPG tried to figure out a way to port it to mobile, but they ran into two interlinked issues.
1. The game features ample amounts of HTML5 code (owing to its origins as a browser-based game), which doesn't play nice with iOS. It would require extensive reconstruction.
2. The UI/UX is pretty awful on any device under 10'' (either the sprites end up looking awful, or you barely see more than 3 squares in either direction). This restricts the potential install base to iPads.
These two combined led to the team considering an iOS port too expensive and time-consuming for the number of potential players.
 
Dec 4, 2017
3,097
The saddest thing is, there's a ton of artwork and sound (notably music tracks) that were never used in the actual game, and only exist in the game's library (and Youtube).