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DualSense Triggers Haptics for gunplay feel awful
- Thread starter Alek
- Start date
I really like it in single player and for shorter sessions. For a long session I'll turn it down to medium. For multiplayer it's off because it's a handicap
🤷🏾‍♂️ I love it. Shooters have been stale for years and I like that every gun feels different. Speaking on COD, haven't played Borderlands on the 5 yet.
I agree that the machine gun was incredible, though I also find that it's something you have to look at within the scope of Astro itself as an entire game using something like that would become absolutely obnoxious.
I didn't use a bow much in demon's souls but it seemed a little odd there, it's super weird in general for Immortals also. Haven't played any games with traditional guns but I'd turn it off for anything MP right away.
OP
OP
It's not that I don't like the idea of them. I just personally find them poorly implemented.
Like, the L2 button is AIM DOWN SIGHTS, but it has the same tension for a 1911 (pistol) as it does for an AK47. If not simulating the weight of the gun, what is the tension for?
I'm glad that developers are considering using them, but as is, I find it pretty bad. Also, while we're on the topic of options I find it odd that you can't change 'trigger vibration' and 'trigger effects' separately in Call of Duty. Because the issue I have with the game is that I can't feel the trigger vibration because of how strong the trigger effects are. The trigger effect forces really high tension on some guns, so you have to press down hard, but that hard press dullens the vibration as it can actually stop the trigger from moving.
I'll try 34, I tried 20 and couldn't feel ANYTHING and on 50 I felt like it still felt too stiff.
I don't really want to use it for MP and whatnot, but I thought it might be fun for zombies and campaign.
The trigger felt great in COD BO Cold War. Only part which disappointed me was certain guns should feel give more powerful feedback.
The bolt action rifle for example didn't feel very powerful with the haptic feedback.
The bolt action rifle for example didn't feel very powerful with the haptic feedback.
Keep in mind that on 34 intensity, ADS resistance for pistols and SMGs is pretty much non-existent. It's there for the rifles though, and the resistance to fire is just right imo across all weapons. Not too much, not too little.
You're happy that the no-contest best way to play a game as popular as Just Dance was "market corrected"?...
...how do you benefit from this?...
In my opinion it's more of a case of developers sometimes not having a clear picture of how or why their audience plays games. A feature like these triggers sounds excellent on paper based on the premise that more realistic and more immersive equals a better experience. However, most people play games to relax and have fun and having to fight the controller, no matter how realistic it might be, gets in the way of that. The hardcore singleplayer-playing part of your audience might appreciate it but everyone else won't, either because it makes it harder to compete in multiplayer or because it causes stress and fatigue during longer playing sessions.
Like others said, I had to turn in down to medium for Call of Duty. I enjoy the feedback and stiff triggers, it's even better because it's optional. While I don't think the haptics had any affect on my K/D I found longer play sessions made my old abused hands sore.
I also feel like my hands sweat WAY more than any other controller I've ever used, usually I have cold hands when I play but not ever with Dualsense. What exactly is in these things?
I also feel like my hands sweat WAY more than any other controller I've ever used, usually I have cold hands when I play but not ever with Dualsense. What exactly is in these things?
this is somethin
don't care about the dualsense triggers one way or the other, but i am struggling with how an optional controller feature is the same thing as an optional CD add on. won't even argue about kinect but dude what
I wonder if, like the 3DS, they'll release a version of it without the features and appropriately name it (in that case the 2DS). They could call it the DualNonsense??
I like the tech, but I had to turn them off in Fortnite. They just felt like they were holding me back lol
The triggers are the worst of the new feature by a mile.
They're horrible in Fortnite.
Not sure why people think triggers actively fighting against you is a good thing. I've turned the at shit riiiiight down.
They're horrible in Fortnite.
Not sure why people think triggers actively fighting against you is a good thing. I've turned the at shit riiiiight down.
I love it. When I throw my PS4 on in the bedroom and play without it, it feels like something is missing. Its one of my favorite things about the new gen.
I play a lot of cod
I play a lot of cod
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I absolutely adored Astro's Playroom and really liked the adaptive triggers there, but I hated it in Miles Morales for web swinging, it felt really weird.
I also bought AC Valhalla on PS5 instead of XSX because of the promise of haptics, 3d audio etc., but I really regret it. Especially shooting the bow feels awful and tiring.
So far I've only been impressed by the DualSense in Astro's Playroom.
I also bought AC Valhalla on PS5 instead of XSX because of the promise of haptics, 3d audio etc., but I really regret it. Especially shooting the bow feels awful and tiring.
So far I've only been impressed by the DualSense in Astro's Playroom.
This has basically been my experience with multiple games that try to do the tension thing with a bow - DeS, Pathless and Valhalla all try to do this and in each case I don't notice it unless I'm very deliberately slowly pulling the trigger.
I'm still interested to see it implemented strongly in an actual FPS to see if I hate it or not but there hasn't been a game with it I'm interested in playing yet. Maybe I should crack open my old PS4 version of Borderlands, download the upgrade and try that out.
I think they are saying the general consensus regarding the DualSense is going from amazing to just OK or possibly worse.
Disagree, they're really great. I was actually disappointed with the implementation is a lot of the action titles currently available like Miles Morales and Spider-Man: Remastered. It's way too subtle.
My only experience with it so far is with Astro's Playroom but I fucking love it and I want more. I'd love a Killzone that went hard with it, and I'd love to see the people whine as a response. Go hard on the haptics and triggers and make it a deliberately sluggish game? What I wouldn't do to see it... People would scream so hard over it, especially if it looked good as fuck, and I'd be there day fucking 1 and be all about that shit.
I have turned off vibration for FPS online in the past, but if games give the option and are done well with it, I'm turning that shit on even in multiplayer.
I want to see what Respawn does with it for Apex, because I have to imagine their weapon arsenal has the potential to translate incredibly well to the haptics and triggers.
Also, I played the bass guitar for a number of years so added tactile sensations and resistances in games against your fingers is some amazing shit in my opinion. I want to see more tactile focuses in games, and the just general tactile nature of holding a controller in general is one of the biggest reasons I love playing games (with and designed around controllers specifically).
I have turned off vibration for FPS online in the past, but if games give the option and are done well with it, I'm turning that shit on even in multiplayer.
I want to see what Respawn does with it for Apex, because I have to imagine their weapon arsenal has the potential to translate incredibly well to the haptics and triggers.
Also, I played the bass guitar for a number of years so added tactile sensations and resistances in games against your fingers is some amazing shit in my opinion. I want to see more tactile focuses in games, and the just general tactile nature of holding a controller in general is one of the biggest reasons I love playing games (with and designed around controllers specifically).
Going to echo others in saying turn vibration down to medium or low and it feels perfect. (It's on high by default)
They felt crap in Borderlands 3. I put that down to poor utilisation on the dev's part - the judder felt hollow and thus crap. They need to find another way to use them.
OP
OP
I didn't make this thread to talk about the DualSense broadly, but more specifically how the DualSense is applied to guns and shooting, where I think it's implementation has specific challenges to tackle.
I like the DualSense in general. I like the haptics in other games. I love the haptics in Astrobot, and I really like them in Sackboy too, it's alright in Spiderman and Fenyx Rising, it adds something to the game in those, even if it isn't special. Not a huge fan of the implementation in Dirt 5, but again that's specific to how the developers have implemented it.
Anyway, this isn't about any of those games (except Astrobot I guess, since you shoot a gun there) I'm not sure why some folks are trying to turn this into an anti-dual sense thread. I'm talking about how it feels when shooting a gun, and aiming down sights specifically, and how I don't think the implementation is good in that specific context, thus far. I think this is worth discussing, because so many games have shooting a gun as a core gameplay mechanic.
Perhaps to be more specific, I think the issues are:
1) The differentiation between different weapons and recoil types can be quite subtle, in Borderlands I couldn't really feel any difference between the guns I had equipped, in Call of Duty sometimes I couldn't feel a difference, especially with guns that seemed to have more tension on the R2 pull (as tension dullens the vibration when pressed down).
2) The tension and vibration effects can be tweaked in the options menu, but only together, not separately. I really dislike that, because if I don't want the tension, or want to lower the tension, then I have to reduce the vibration effects too which often leaves me not feeling anything from them.
3) The tension seems universally applied sometimes, in COD the tension is active even in the pause menu, I don't understand why.
4) It would be good if they could find a way to offer options so that players could configure them in such a way that they might be usable without disadvantaging the player severely in online play. Specifically I think being able to reduce tension, vibration and trigger deadzones would help with this.
I like the DualSense in general. I like the haptics in other games. I love the haptics in Astrobot, and I really like them in Sackboy too, it's alright in Spiderman and Fenyx Rising, it adds something to the game in those, even if it isn't special. Not a huge fan of the implementation in Dirt 5, but again that's specific to how the developers have implemented it.
Anyway, this isn't about any of those games (except Astrobot I guess, since you shoot a gun there) I'm not sure why some folks are trying to turn this into an anti-dual sense thread. I'm talking about how it feels when shooting a gun, and aiming down sights specifically, and how I don't think the implementation is good in that specific context, thus far. I think this is worth discussing, because so many games have shooting a gun as a core gameplay mechanic.
Perhaps to be more specific, I think the issues are:
1) The differentiation between different weapons and recoil types can be quite subtle, in Borderlands I couldn't really feel any difference between the guns I had equipped, in Call of Duty sometimes I couldn't feel a difference, especially with guns that seemed to have more tension on the R2 pull (as tension dullens the vibration when pressed down).
2) The tension and vibration effects can be tweaked in the options menu, but only together, not separately. I really dislike that, because if I don't want the tension, or want to lower the tension, then I have to reduce the vibration effects too which often leaves me not feeling anything from them.
3) The tension seems universally applied sometimes, in COD the tension is active even in the pause menu, I don't understand why.
4) It would be good if they could find a way to offer options so that players could configure them in such a way that they might be usable without disadvantaging the player severely in online play. Specifically I think being able to reduce tension, vibration and trigger deadzones would help with this.
I hate the bow trigger pull in DS, I agree with you that it feels broken, definitely.
Naturally this is going to be a preference thing, but different things contributing to feedback beyond something happening on screen can really enhance a game's feel. This shouldn't be hard to understand. That's what I told my doctor about that incident with Rez and the trance vibrator anyway.
That's understood. However, said claims have to be substantiated in some form, and I don't believe a thread on resetera complaining about the implementation of trigger haptics is reflective of a general consensus shift, thus "elaborate please"
The implementation in Cold War is garbage as all it does it create soreness in the finger and probably more wear and tear on your controller since you are repeatedly mashing down on the button. Not to mention the split second delay from having to deal with the resistance from the button as you hit the triggers.
There are definitely better ways to add Immersion™ without also hindering the game.
There are definitely better ways to add Immersion™ without also hindering the game.
It was a good novelty. Got tired of it after a while. At least there's an option to turn it off.
I have to imagine that having more granular control of the sensations the trigger can do would be better, and I'd think this will probably be something that will evolve more over time. I mean it's a relatively new form of feedback, so naturally the developers are going to have to spend some time coming to grips (heh) with it. Not just in their own games, but by also playing other games that implement the trigger haptics.
Your point about doing more with L2 such as having different levels of resistance based on the actual gun you are trying to use would be interesting, but I honestly thought the most recent CoD did something like that? I haven't played it or any other actual FPS game so I don't have enough broad context of the current implementation of it yet really (and I haven't bothered with any bows in Demon's Souls yet either).
Doing stuff to like signify magazine chambers are getting close to empty then fully exhausting would be cool, and I think that Deathloop is planning on doing something like that.
I'd imagine a game with a system akin to Gears' active reload is another system that could be another way to do something unique with the triggers.
Or like having a weapon in a game where you'd have to have the draw trigger right in the sweet spot in order to have the best recoil spread.
I'm going to be very interested to see where developers go with it, and I hope that they will really leverage the hardware and not let it just languish. But that often happens unfortunately.
Your point about doing more with L2 such as having different levels of resistance based on the actual gun you are trying to use would be interesting, but I honestly thought the most recent CoD did something like that? I haven't played it or any other actual FPS game so I don't have enough broad context of the current implementation of it yet really (and I haven't bothered with any bows in Demon's Souls yet either).
Doing stuff to like signify magazine chambers are getting close to empty then fully exhausting would be cool, and I think that Deathloop is planning on doing something like that.
I'd imagine a game with a system akin to Gears' active reload is another system that could be another way to do something unique with the triggers.
Or like having a weapon in a game where you'd have to have the draw trigger right in the sweet spot in order to have the best recoil spread.
I'm going to be very interested to see where developers go with it, and I hope that they will really leverage the hardware and not let it just languish. But that often happens unfortunately.
It's completely broken in Demon's Souls and a very awful implementation of it.
OP i think the feeling of a real trigger is "better" if you dont release R2 all the way each time but rest your finger at the resistance point of R2, as in your finger on the trigger. Then it's just a quick pull and you shoot. That's how it works great for me.
Also you were talking about recoil in the OP... doesn't it do that? My R2 fights back when I hold down an automatic rifle. To be fair, it took until the vietnam level for me to notice, because i usually just use burst fire
Also you were talking about recoil in the OP... doesn't it do that? My R2 fights back when I hold down an automatic rifle. To be fair, it took until the vietnam level for me to notice, because i usually just use burst fire
I haven't tried the DualSense yet but I'm used to the "impulse triggers" on Xbox for years now (I know, not the same technology, but the intent is more or less the same). And in my experience it's not so great/borderline annoying in shooters, but really awesome for driving games - when it's properly implemented, obviously.
I think I heard WRC9 is great with DualSense?
I'm 100% sure people will be blown away by GT7.
But yeah, for shooters, I'm not very surprised some people find it useless/tiresome.
I think I heard WRC9 is great with DualSense?
I'm 100% sure people will be blown away by GT7.
But yeah, for shooters, I'm not very surprised some people find it useless/tiresome.
I really love the triggers for guns. I dropped borderlands 3 on PC like a rock because the writing was pure cringe . I picked it up recently in the holiday sale and am now much further in the game than I ever was on pc. I watch YouTube or listen to a podcast to avoid hearing the dialogue but the main thing driving me to keep playing that game is just how satisfying it feels to click the triggers. Im also someone that keeps it on for Cold War multiplater and have had no issues it just makes it way more enjoyable for me having some real feedback
I also do this , the controller has a little give before the part where the controller clicks so i always rest my finger right at the resistance point and then its a quick pull of the trigger
