Drifting in Crash Team Racing feels amazing

Crayon · May 28, 2019

I'll be the judge of that. I'm very disappointed with Mario kart 8d. While it has a fantastic feel to the controls, that does not translate to interesting driving. Between constantly bumping and holding the r button for little boosts and very simplistic drifting, then the highly prominent and powerful weapon combat, the sense of racing a go-kart is sort of distant.

The driving in the first one was brilliant. It was as good as outrun or Daytona or Sega rally. That is some lofty company. Top of the heap, in fact. I think it was better than crash, as well. But that's a fuzzy memory. I'll see when I play this one.

Professor Beef · May 28, 2019

CAN'TWAIT.gif

Alek · May 28, 2019

Crayon said:
I'll be the judge of that. I'm very disappointed with Mario kart 8d. While it has a fantastic feel to the controls, that does not translate to interesting driving. Between constantly bumping and holding the r button for little boosts and very simplistic drifting, then the highly prominent and powerful weapon combat, the sense of racing a go-kart is sort of distant.

The driving in the first one was brilliant. It was as good as outrun or Daytona or Sega rally. That is some lofty company. Top of the heap, in fact. I think it was better than crash, as well. But that's a fuzzy memory. I'll see when I play this one.

Really confused as to what you're talking about here.

The driving in the first what? CTR? There's only one CTR.

Then you go on to talk about the driving in Daytona or Sega rally? Very confused as these games are nothing like CTR.

The closest thing you'll find to Daytona or Sega Rally drifting is in Outrun 2006 and more recently, the Sonic racing games. CTR isn't like that.

Crayon · May 28, 2019

Chronospherics said:
Really confused as to what you're talking about here.

The driving in the first what? CTR? There's only one CTR.

Then you go on to talk about the driving in Daytona or Sega rally? Very confused as these games are nothing like CTR.

The closest thing you'll find to Daytona or Sega Rally drifting is in Outrun 2006 and more recently, the Sonic racing games. CTR isn't like that.

That would be the first Mario kart. And yes, quite obviously those arcade games are somewhat different from kart games. But they are not completely dissimilar. These games all portray you driving a vehicle. They give you steering left and right, gas and brake.

I'm talking about how well-designed and fun the handling is; If it feels like a good racing game. I don't think there's a difference. You would have to get into something like Gran Turismo before its a strectch. besides, I thought it was clear that I was not saying that the handling of those games was so similar, but so good.

This actually happens all the time here. If I compare two racing games, or two adventure games, there's always someone who splits the games into narrow sub-genres and claims they are incomparable. So no big. Common misunderstanding. perhaps I'm the odd one out who thinks a racing game is a racing game.

808s & Villainy · May 28, 2019

Crayon said:
That would be the first Mario kart. And yes, quite obviously those arcade games are somewhat different from kart games. But they are not completely dissimilar. These games all portray you driving a vehicle. They give you steering left and right, gas and brake.

I'm talking about how well-designed and fun the handling is; If it feels like a good racing game. I don't think there's a difference. You would have to get into something like Gran Turismo before its a strectch. besides, I thought it was clear that I was not saying that the handling of those games was so similar, but so good.

I would argue the driving in every Mario Kart pre MKDS was kind of janky, especially the fan favorite MK64

Pai Pai Master · May 28, 2019

Sp1 said:
Crash was designed to be played like this, Mario Kart was not.

this

flyingman · May 28, 2019

Its not just mechanics, sounds that compliment it , soundtrack its all combined.

Crayon · May 28, 2019

808s & Villainy said:
I would argue the driving in every Mario Kart pre MKDS was kind of janky, especially the fan favorite MK64

Another distant memory, but I believe I was pleased with the handling of DS and super circuit. I've missed out on several Mario karts, so they're might be some other ones I would like

And the driving in MK 64 was wretched by my reckoning.

Ryuhza · May 28, 2019

flyingman said:
Its not just mechanics, sounds that compliment it , soundtrack its all combined.

Oh yeah, I do think the sound design and visual feedback play a big part. That was one of the elements I think was seriously downgraded in Nitro Kart. The sound design in that game is, in my opinion, not very good at all. The character voices are too loud, the karts whistle/whir like vacuum cleaners, the jumps have this silly disconnected boing sound, and the drift turbos sound like someone spitting at high velocity.

Crayon · May 28, 2019

It really is a lot of little subtle things that add up. If you look at the original outrun, it's just about as simple as pole position on paper, but really takes it to another level with sound, graphics, and the little ways they relate to the handling of the car, which is subtly brilliant and its own right.

Doskoi Panda · May 28, 2019

Crayon said:
I'll be the judge of that. I'm very disappointed with Mario kart 8d. While it has a fantastic feel to the controls, that does not translate to interesting driving. Between constantly bumping and holding the r button for little boosts and very simplistic drifting, then the highly prominent and powerful weapon combat, the sense of racing a go-kart is sort of distant.

MK's racing presentation and dynamic feel is so on-point, but over the years I've found myself agreeing with the sentiment that its racing just isn't technical enough, more and more. I used to get frustrated with the weird camera angles and sideways slide drifting of other kart and arcade-style racing games (pretty much anything that looked even a little like this) and that'd turn me off entirely. Mostly cuz I came up on post-64 MK games, I suppose. but I've been excited to give this game a genuine shot since I first had its drifting mechanics explained to me (played it as a kid and bounced right off but now it seems like it's right up my alley.)

Crayon · May 28, 2019

Solid said:
MK's racing presentation and dynamic feel is so on-point, but over the years I've found myself agreeing with the sentiment that its racing just isn't technical enough, more and more. I used to get frustrated with the weird camera angles and sideways slide drifting of other kart and arcade-style racing games (pretty much anything that looked even a little like this) and that'd turn me off entirely. Mostly cuz I came up on post-64 MK games, I suppose. but I've been excited to give this game a genuine shot since I first had its drifting mechanics explained to me (played it as a kid and bounced right off but now it seems like it's right up my alley.)

I'm excited to try it, too. I really can't remember quite what it feels like. But I clearly rememberfind excited to try it, too. I really can't remember how it felt, but I do remember shaking my head at how ridiculously superior it was to MK 64 specifically in the feel and handling and yes, technicality of the racing.

This is the game that solidify my opinion of mk64 as a real letdown. I had gave it some slack by presuming the technical limitations were causing compromises. But CTR blew that theory out of the water. CTR had polygonal racers and carts with 2D sprites for wheels. And it ran just as good as Mario kart. And it's solved what are the prime issues of mk64 which was the impression of your carts placement on the track. This feeling was very sad and frustrating in mk64. Crash pretty much took care of that. What a difference that alone makes. Not feeling like you're trying to drive a cardboard cutout.

So I think maybe we're on the same page here. I also took a while to come to the realization that something was missing from the games post-smk.

Anyhow, if it's still not clear to anyone else, I'm obviously talking about a specific part of these kart games that's very important to me. I don't think it is that important to probably the majority of players.

Deleted member 56580 · May 28, 2019

So its exactly like in double dash ?

Alek · May 28, 2019

Crayon said:
That would be the first Mario kart. And yes, quite obviously those arcade games are somewhat different from kart games. But they are not completely dissimilar. These games all portray you driving a vehicle. They give you steering left and right, gas and brake.

I'm talking about how well-designed and fun the handling is; If it feels like a good racing game. I don't think there's a difference. You would have to get into something like Gran Turismo before its a strectch. besides, I thought it was clear that I was not saying that the handling of those games was so similar, but so good.

This actually happens all the time here. If I compare two racing games, or two adventure games, there's always someone who splits the games into narrow sub-genres and claims they are incomparable. So no big. Common misunderstanding. perhaps I'm the odd one out who thinks a racing game is a racing game.

I mean, I wasn't even able to follow which two things you were comparing. I didn't say they were incomparable, but there's a certain type of drifting in Sega's racing games that doesn't feature in any other game, be it MK or CTR. If your looking for that Daytona feel, you won't fit it, or similar, in CTR.

What I find interesting about these games is how they're differentiated by the mini-turbo mechanic. I think that's CTR's highlight and ultimately, it's unique selling point.

Honestly, CTR's handling is actually quite different to any these games. It's extremely grippy, like the opposite of Double Dash. You can even do 180 handbrake turns in the air.

flyingman · May 28, 2019

Stabbie said:
So its exactly like in double dash ?

nah double dash is garbage

Deleted member 56580 · May 28, 2019

flyingman said:
nah double dash is garbage

that asides I remember having to do the same manipulation to get a boost ...

Crayon · May 28, 2019

Chronospherics said:
I mean, I wasn't even able to follow which two things you were comparing. I didn't say they were incomparable, but there's a certain type of drifting in Sega's racing games that doesn't feature in any other game, be it MK or CTR. If your looking for that Daytona feel, you won't fit it, or similar, in CTR.

What I find interesting about these games is how they're differentiated by the mini-turbo mechanic. I think that's CTR's highlight and ultimately, it's unique selling point.

Honestly, CTR's handling is actually quite different to any these games. It's extremely grippy, like the opposite of Double Dash. You can even do 180 handbrake turns in the air.

All right. One more time.

I am not saying that those games were so similar in handling. I'm saying they were all of the top contemporaries for the best racing games you can play.

So my point is, that the first Mario kart was up there with the most fun and high-quality racing games of the time.

And again, to be absolutely clear, I am not saying this grouping of games is significant because of how similar they feel. We're talking about how refined they are.

Deleted member 5621 · May 28, 2019

Yes, it fucking rocks.

Fun fact: two or three years ago I had the chance to play CTR with a super fanboy who also have not played it since the PSX days. He never knew about the boost mechanic. I taught him after getting used to it again and dude was overjoyed, blasting away and destroying his own personal records.
CTR is the best.

Crayon said:
Another distant memory, but I believe I was pleased with the handling of DS and super circuit. I've missed out on several Mario karts, so they're might be some other ones I would like

And the driving in MK 64 was wretched by my reckoning.

GBA and DS handling are leagues above SNES and 64. Didn't play 7 enough to compare it to, never played 8 or DD.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

Can't wait for NF. Really hope it has retained all the original mechanics like 180 turns, climbing walls in battle maps, etc.

thelostone · May 28, 2019

KillstealWolf said:
Having played Nitro Fueled over the weekend, the drifting feels as good there, and that's in an earlier build, so it will probably be even tighter in the final build.

Once you master the drift system, the time difference you can create between someone who knows what they are doing and those that can't.

Is simply staggering. It's a game that really does reward knowing the mechanics and the sense of speed you can get when mastering the reserve system is phenominal.

were did you play this

Crayon · May 28, 2019

Aaaahhhh it looks so good!!

Ryuhza · May 28, 2019

Exentryk said:
Can't wait for NF. Really hope it has retained all the original mechanics like 180 turns, climbing walls in battle maps, etc.

I dunno about the walls in the battle maps, but player on an earlier demo build managed a mid-air 180 to land a crazy shortcut.

Servbot24 · May 28, 2019

808s & Villainy said:
I would argue the driving in every Mario Kart pre MKDS was kind of janky, especially the fan favorite MK64

MK64 is downright not a good game. CTR absolutely wiped the floor in that particular generation.

Railgun · May 28, 2019

Arta said:
High skill play:

I was really excited for this game till I saw this, I thought this would be a great fun local game for parties where everyone can play and compete but now I see this and know that won't work. Reminds me a lot of bunny hopping in Titanfall, it looks weird and I doubt the game had this in mind when designing the drifting.

Ghost305 · May 28, 2019

Sp1 said:
Crash was designed to be played like this, Mario Kart was not.

Exactly.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

Ryuhza said:
I dunno about the walls in the battle maps, but player on an earlier demo build managed a mid-air 180 to land a crazy shortcut.

Is there footage for that 180? I just want to make sure it is the same thing.

Ryuhza · May 28, 2019

Railgun said:
I was really excited for this game till I saw this, I thought this would be a great fun local game for parties where everyone can play and compete but now I see this and know that won't work. Reminds me a lot of bunny hopping in Titanfall, it looks weird and I doubt the game had this in mind when designing the drifting.

There are developer's best laps that utilize drifting in that way which the game presents for you to beat as the game's ultimate challenge, so I think they knew what was up.

Exentryk said:
Is there footage for that 180? I just want to make sure it is the same thing.

The 180 in this particular instance was extra difficult because they are going basically as fast as the game allows (maintained super turbo from the jump near the end of the race + mask speed). Needed a handling character to pull it off.

M. Wallace · May 28, 2019

Would feel better in 60fps though...

/s

Can't wait to play this!

Wrestleman · May 28, 2019

Railgun said:
I was really excited for this game till I saw this, I thought this would be a great fun local game for parties where everyone can play and compete but now I see this and know that won't work. Reminds me a lot of bunny hopping in Titanfall, it looks weird and I doubt the game had this in mind when designing the drifting.

You'd be wrong. The game has time trial ghosts called Oxide Ghosts for you to beat in single player and they all utilize techniques like this. The game's high level time trial times are all completely founded in this kind of play.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

Ryuhza said:
There are developer's best laps that utilize drifting in that way that the game presents for you to beat as the game's ultimate challenge, so I think they knew what was up.

The 180 in this particular instance was extra difficult because they are going basically as fast as the game allows. Needed a handling character to pull it off.

Yes, that's it! Perfect! Thanks man!

Coldman · May 28, 2019

CTR has always been the most satisfying kart racer in the hands. I'm so, so happy to see they didn't mess this up.

Jinfash · May 28, 2019

Arta said:
High skill play:

This is giving me flashbacks to snaking in MKDS in a bad way. How accurate are the similarities I'm perceiving?

Ryuhza · May 28, 2019

Jinfash said:
This is giving me flashbacks to snaking in MKDS in a bad way. How accurate are the similarities I'm perceiving?

Depends on what you don't like about snaking. It doesn't break your hand to do it in CTR, so there's a plus.

Crayon · May 28, 2019

Stabbie said:
So its exactly like in double dash ?

I've never played that game, but I know I didn't like the look of it. Literally, the look. Those weird karts with the two characters riding on them... I was like wth. I'm not saying it was a deal-breaker, I probably wasn't going to play the game anyway.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

Excuse the 144p vid, but climbing walls in the battle map to hit someone that you normally wouldn't be able to:

joeblow · May 28, 2019

For people who think it's unintuitive to drift on straights to boost, I believe some of he posters here who say it would eventually make sense in the context of the game even though I never played CTR.

However I have played DriveClub, and while it is more realistic than CTR, the drifiting events could be easily completed once you realized that drifting on straights helped your drift score. They eventually patched it to be more intuitive, but players notice stuff like this pretty early whether it makes sense or not.

HighspeedRefleX · May 28, 2019

steering in the air looks a bit extreme but it's needed due to the track design. Other than that it looks fine.

EchoChamber · May 28, 2019

Well I played the original CTR and I didn't know you could drift at all lol.

Ryuhza · May 28, 2019

Exentryk said:
Excuse the 144p vid, but climbing walls in the battle map to hit someone that you normally wouldn't be able to:

Did that missile go through the floor? I kinda really doubt that's gonna make it into the remake, lol.

EchoChamber said:
Well I played the original CTR and I didn't know you could drift at all lol.

Aku Aku/Uka Uka don't tell you about it in their tips until the end of the second hub zone, I think. If the Adventure mode demo they showed recently is any indication, they tell you right after the first race now.

Fireblend · May 28, 2019

OMG, I loved snaking in MKDS. This cements my purchase.

Arta · May 28, 2019

They better add a tutorial explaining all this stuff.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

I also wonder if the reverse bowling bombs still continue to veer away from the opponent, or if the devs have changed it so that it veers towards the opponent. Gonna be fun figuring out the intricate mechanics again.

Also noticed Safi Fire in that high level play vid. I like how the devs have given it its own boost color (white flame). Good stuff!

Ryuhza said:
Did that missile go through the floor? I kinda really doubt that's gonna make it into the remake, lol.

Haha yeah, it did. I know it is a glitch, but I'm hoping it makes it in, haha.

Smash-It Stan · May 28, 2019

Hows the music coming along? Same mistake the Nsanity crew made and not get the original quality files from the composer?

Crayon · May 28, 2019

So when I was 13, Mario kart was pretty much the real driving simulator. I longed to drive a real go kart. And i imagined it happening on dirt because half the tracks in mario kart are on dirt. I love dirt.

But irl, all the go-karts I've ever seen racing have been on some kind of hard surface. I have seen go-karts on little chubby knobby tires for dirt, but I've never seen them raced anywhere. What a bummer!

I'd still love to race a go kart in the dirt Mario kart style, someday. That would be sweet. Maybe I could start my own rental place where you rent go karts then I can maintain a buff dirt track.

And I could sell turtle shells at the counter.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

Arta said:
They better add a tutorial explaining all this stuff.

The adventure mode teaches you this basic stuff really well.

E.T. · May 28, 2019

No arguments there OP, best in class and genre by some distance. It has been 20 years and nobody has come close to the drift and boost mechanics in CTR. They nailed it with their first go.

sabrina · May 28, 2019

Arta said:
They better add a tutorial explaining all this stuff.

In addition to what Exentryk said, Beenox revised the default boost meter on the HUD to better explain what's going on and how the game expects you to play it.

Exentryk · May 28, 2019

It'd be great fun to have an Era group here to play with. But since there isn't any cross play, I wonder what platform people will buy this for?

Ryuhza · May 28, 2019

Exentryk said:
It'd be great fun to have an Era group here to play with. But since there isn't any cross play, I wonder what platform people will buy this for?

Anecdotally it seems like a fairly even divide between Switch and PS4. PS4 has the CTR legacy draw, bits of exclusive content, better graphics and potential for better performance, but Switch has the portability and a userbase raised on kart racers.

Haven't seen too many people talk about getting it for Xbox, but the X is of course going to be the strongest platform visually/performance wise.

MrPanic · May 28, 2019

The drifting systems and mechanics are the reason that CTR to this day is one of the most fun kart racers out there. There's simply no other kart racers that can create the satisfaction this game creates purely from the racing alone.

RM8 said:
I was going to ask why people like this in CTR but not in MKDS, lol. I was pretty great at snaking in both games, it annoys people who can't/won't do it.

People already answered this but yeah, unlike in MKDS where snaking was a somewhat broken mechanic where you had to break your thumb on the dpad to make it work, here we have intended mechanics that are easy and fun to input and not at all unreasonable for everyone to learn at low level and satisfying to master on a high level.

Drifting in Crash Team Racing feels amazing

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