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EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
For those who are unaware, Drew Karpyshyn has joined Archetype Entertainment, a new studio funded by Wizards of the Coast and founded by BioWare veterans set on making a new scifi RPG. Drew is one of the lead writers helping build the core universe for this project and spearheading its story.

Drew has penned a blog entry on the subject, briefly discussing his thoughts on Archetype, as well as why he left BioWare. Some choice quotes below;

Fortunately for me, I have another gig now. I'm proud to announce that I'm the lead writer for Archetype Entertainment! Founded by James Ohlen – the creative genius behind BioWare hits like Baldur's Gate, KOTOR and Dragon Age – Archetype is a new video game studio under the Wizards of the Coast umbrella… and I haven't been this excited to work on a project in a long, long time! (Side note: I've always enjoyed working with WotC; they even published my first novel!)

I've been in the video game industry for twenty years now. When I started at BioWare, everything was fresh and exciting. It was a dream job – talented people working together to create epic games like Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect and Dragon Age. But as we grew and became more successful, things changed. We became more corporate. We were less able to make what we loved, and the teams were pushed to create games based on market research rather than our creative instincts and passions. My dream job became just a job, and I lost the enthusiasm and excitement I once had.

But with Archetype, my passion has been rekindled. The feel in the studio reminds me of my early days at BioWare; I can feel the magic in the air. And even though I can't get too deep into the specifics of what we're working on yet, we're already generating plenty of excitement in the industry.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
Really nice. Sounds super positive and you can feel the nostalgia in the air.

I'll be watching what they are going to do with great interest.
 

PinkCrayon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,153
Pretty damning stuff, but I guess most people already noticed Bioware's decline over the last decade.

I'll follow AE with some interest at least.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
sci-fi DnD-based game. the second coming of Kotor (or third, if you want to count 2)
 

Bane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,904
Well, this is interesting news. I've enjoyed a lot of his work, both in games and print, and look forward to what he does with this studio.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
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Jul 30, 2018
14,505
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I didn't know Karpshyn had joined this studio

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Really looking forward to what they do now
 

Deleted member 17184

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Oct 27, 2017
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Drew already mentioned on a podcast last year (or in 2018, can't remember) that it's harder to make AAA games these days where the devs would create a pretty significant choice that would lead players to an area exclusive to that choice, because of the budget used into something only 50% of players would have access to (at first). This isn't a problem specific to BioWare or EA, but every AAA studio. It's a systemic issue.

But I'm also glad we have another story-driven RPG studio. The more, the better.
 
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EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Drew already mentioned on a podcast last year (or in 2018, can't remember) that it's harder to make AAA games these days where the devs would create a pretty significant choice that would lead players to an area exclusive to that choice, because of the budget used into something only 50% of players would have access to (at first). This isn't a problem specific to BioWare or EA, but every AAA studio. It's a systemic issue.

For sure. Even in this case I don't expect Archetype's title to be some super raw hardcore isometric RPG, but instead still something digestible to the AAA masses.

It does sound like EA's management and BioWares corporate policy did shift in a direction that nullified Drew's creative output though, which is a shame, and does explain how safe and formulaic so much of their recent work has been. I wonder if with Casey's return anything will change.
 
Nov 3, 2017
1,158
"We became more corporate. We were less able to make what we loved, and the teams were pushed to create games based on market research rather than our creative instincts and passions "

One has to wonder how will the Dragon Age franchise fare in such an environment
 

Deleted member 864

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Oct 25, 2017
17,544
I'm interested in what they're doing, and looking forward to it.

I've really enjoyed Drew's work.
 

Deleted member 17184

User-requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
5,240
For sure. Even in this case I don't expect Archetype's title to be some super raw hardcore isometric RPG, but instead still something digestible to the AAA masses.

It does sound like EA's management and BioWares corporate policy did shift in a direction that nullified Drew's creative output though, which is a shame, and does explain how safe and formulaic so much of their recent work has been. I wonder if with Casey's return anything will change.
Hard to tell until the next Dragon Age comes out. But unfortunately the change isn't surprising. I hope AAA companies take lessons from the success of singleplayer RPGs recently.
 

KushalaDaora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,838
Hard to tell until the next Dragon Age comes out. But unfortunately the change isn't surprising. I hope AAA companies take lessons from the success of singleplayer RPGs recently.

I hope with the recent resurgence of cRPG genre and BG3 announcement, Dragon Age 4 will return to its cRPG root. Its about time we got new cRPG with AAA production value.

they will probably streamline the gameplay even further.

At this point at the very least I just hope they don't butcher and properly wrap up Solas story
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,513
A studio name is just a name. It's the talent behind it that makes all the difference in the quality of what they produce. I hope we could see spiritual successor to Original Bioware games.
 

SavoyPrime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,180
North Carolina USA
"But as we grew and became more successful, things changed. We became more corporate. We were less able to make what we loved, and the teams were pushed to create games based on market research rather than our creative instincts and passions. My dream job became just a job, and I lost the enthusiasm and excitement I once had."

That sucks really. I'm cool with them having the financial backing of a huge publisher. But you really do end up with the high probability of losing the soul the developer once had.
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,533
Hard to tell until the next Dragon Age comes out. But unfortunately the change isn't surprising. I hope AAA companies take lessons from the success of singleplayer RPGs recently.
Surely EA knows the demand for single player is higher than ever based on Fallen Order reception......right? They can't be that stupid.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,970
I don't think any sci-fi book series has ever nosedived in quality as much as when the Mass Effect tie-in novels went from being written by Drew Karpyshyn to then being written by William C. Dietz. Looking back on it, the release of Mass Effect: Deception was Bioware's first step past the point of no return into oblivion.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
I'm so glad to see a single player rpg studio. I can't wait to see what they're making. Bioware has taken such a nosedive in quality over the last generation, it would be great to see this studio pick up the slack.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Drew gets to golf year round and write games. I'm sure he's happy.

They also got Flores and Peleg as animators. Those are top tier guys and not people I'd associate with isometric titles.
 
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banter

Member
Jan 12, 2018
4,127
Oh wow, this is starting to shape up well. Kind of sad for bioware but new things are on the horizon and im looking forward to them.

Also, laughed pretty hard at the "we became more corporate". Translation: "we got bought out by EA."
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,371
"We became more corporate. We were less able to make what we loved, and the teams were pushed to create games based on market research rather than our creative instincts and passions "

One has to wonder how will the Dragon Age franchise fare in such an environment
I mean, wasn't Inquisition already a product of that? MMO fetch quests, tacked on multiplayer, padded game length, brainless combat, etc.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Drew gets to golf year round and write games. I'm sure he's happy.

They also got Flores and Peleg as animators. Those are top tier guys and not people I'd associate with isometric titles.
we've already been told not to expect an isometric game. and I doubt WotC would be collecting all this talent for something that doesn't attempt to cast a wide-ish net
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Ever since Mass Effect 2, it's been a matter of time until someone else took on the ambitions of Mass Effect and did it right. If it's a 3D game, let the gameplay be as jank as humanly possible, so your niche can enjoy it to the fullest.
One has to wonder how will the Dragon Age franchise fare in such an environment
Hello anywhere ever since 2011. It's not something new for them.
 
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EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
It's pretty exciting to think they're building a strong foundation team at Archetype, and taking their time to build a new scfi RPG universe that, given assumed projections, will be a next generation game. Could be something special, with the right support.
 

LavaBadger

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Nov 14, 2017
4,986
Intrigued for sure. Bioware hasn't been Bioware for a long time, so it's exciting to see that some of the old talent might live on in other studios.

"We became more corporate. We were less able to make what we loved, and the teams were pushed to create games based on market research rather than our creative instincts and passions "

One has to wonder how will the Dragon Age franchise fare in such an environment

You've already seen it in DA2 and DA:I. Generic, design-by-commitee games that lack the depth and soul of their predecessor in DA:O.
 

ivan.k

Banned
Dec 30, 2017
1,304
Moscow
You've already seen it in DA2 and DA:I. Generic, design-by-commitee games that lack the depth and soul of their predecessor in DA:O.
What
DA2 wasn't generic. They tried something new with story, not another chosen one who saves the world. They gave the series a visual identity. You look at something and you can see "yep it's Dragon Age"
DAI was amazing. Except fetch quests of course.

What was about DAO that is not generic? Grey colors everywhere, so everything looked like shit, another chosen one, slow and boring combat, on consoles combat was especially terrible
 

Deleted member 49535

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Nov 10, 2018
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EA removing him from Mass Effect to put him to work on The Old Republic was such a big mistake. He should have been allowed to finish the trilogy at least.

Anyway, very excited for this new studio. I've always loved Drew's work (including his books).
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Obviously this is only one experience of one person but, maybe all those people can shut up now about this not being a thing, it's obviously a thing and apparent to anyone that has noticed the games losing something since DA2. Anyone that thinks that pushing out DA2 in 18 months of a decision full of creative integrity and wasn't more about fulfilling some fiscal bullshit can sod off.
 

Acidote

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Oct 26, 2017
4,963
Yeah, I'll say that if WotC gives them the funding, I'm more interested in whatever they do than whatever Bioware releases next.
 

LavaBadger

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Nov 14, 2017
4,986
What
DA2 wasn't generic. They tried something new with story, not another chosen one who saves the world. They gave the series a visual identity. You look at something and you can see "yep it's Dragon Age"
DAI was amazing. Except fetch quests of course.

What was about DAO that is not generic? Grey colors everywhere, so everything looked like shit, another chosen one, slow and boring combat, on consoles combat was especially terrible

I'll never be able to understand anyone who thinks DA2 was a positive move for the series. It was a thin veneer of Dragon Age over a poorly made, shallow action-RPG. It reused its own assets left and right, rewrote characters from the first game to make them 1 dimensional, and had a narrative that was not only a fraction of the scope of its predecessor, but had amateurish writing on top of it. It took everything interesting about DA:O and tossed it out or watered it down in favor of a quick follow up cash grab.

DA:I by comparison is a bloated, overlong, mediocre affair that retains the writing quality of DA2, but at least attempts to be mechanically interesting. It ended up being a game that deserved to be 25 hours long, and instead was stretched over 70, no doubt because some design document mandated that it needed to be big because big = value and quality (It does not; it did not).

Complaining about the color palette of DA:O is a trivial thing; welcome to the 360 era, so many much of it was muted color palettes (This also ignores the creativity of the environments, monsters, and characters which were highly varied). The combat was likewise of a formula very familiar and welcome to people who liked isometric RPGs from which the game takes inspiration. It can be easy and boring or complex depending on the difficulty. But the core of what made DA:O fantastic was the way it took some familiar fantasy tropes and built a interesting, complex, and unique world. The writing was very well done to build this world and very well done for nearly every character.

And chosen one character plot? That is absolutely not what the plot is. It's conclusion actually allows you to let someone else make the great sacrifices, because you're not the lone savior. It is not a chosen one narrative.

This is a digression from the core of this thread, but my feelings on Dragon Age as a shell franchise aren't changing. It's another dead series from Bioware.
 

Mentalist

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Mar 14, 2019
17,975
Bioware kinda peaked with Dragon Age Origins. Mass Effect became a "guns and conversation" series, and Dragon Age 2... all I can ever think of with that is the "awesome button" interview.

Getting the same kind of talent that made DA:O establishing a new IP sounds promising. Hopefully WotC give them the creative freedom to recapture the magic of those old games.
 
Oct 28, 2017
799
Really looking forward to seeing what the team at Archetype do. Hopefully they can create the sorts of games that Bioware used to do so well.

Drew's comments on the changes in Bioware's ethos and focus is pretty damning. And sadly it mirrors their recent game output.
 

Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
One has to wonder how will the Dragon Age franchise fare in such an environment
I hope with the recent resurgence of cRPG genre and BG3 announcement, Dragon Age 4 will return to its cRPG root. Its about time we got new cRPG with AAA production value.
after andromeda & anthem, how do you think it's going to fare? also rofl at EA using their budget to male a crpg. the hames are going to be live service & player retention wrapped in an "RPG". i mean theyve only said as much
 

jerfdr

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Dec 14, 2017
702
What
DA2 wasn't generic. They tried something new with story, not another chosen one who saves the world. They gave the series a visual identity. You look at something and you can see "yep it's Dragon Age"
DAI was amazing. Except fetch quests of course.
DA2 was indeed a good game at its core, but butchered due to its very short development cycle. If EA hadn't forced them to release this game in such a short timeframe, which pushed them to heavily reuse assets etc, it would have been a great game.

I couldn't disagree more strongly on the DA:I matter, though. It's the epitome of boring design-by-committee, same as Mass Effect: Andromeda. I'm still baffled at the awards it got that year, I guess that "open world" was too strong a buzzword at that time for people to objectively judge DA:I. Even if you discard all the meaningless boring MMO-like fetch quests (which constituted like 80% of the game), it's still mediocre at best.
 

Deleted member 8784

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Oct 26, 2017
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I'll absolutely give these guys the time of day. I didn't know there was such a pedigree at this studio. Best of luck to them.
 

KushalaDaora

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Oct 27, 2017
7,838
after andromeda & anthem, how do you think it's going to fare? also rofl at EA using their budget to male a crpg. the hames are going to be live service & player retention wrapped in an "RPG". i mean theyve only said as much

Mark Darrah and Patrick Weekes gives me sliver of hope.

Plus Jedi Order recent success.

Like I said, would be nice of they return to cRPG root but at this point even if they didn't as long as they properly wrap up the story set by Inquisition/Trespasser and the end product is not complete clusterfuck (I don't care about live service element as long as its handled like AssCreed Or/Od), I would be content.

A man can dream :/