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Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,798
Interesting thread, I am going through DQXI right now and will go through FFXII after that.

I quite like DQXI, its cliche the game, but the actual dialogue is very enjoyable. I feel like a certified cliche enjoyer.
 

abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,939
Austin, TX
I just started playing DQ11 on XSX the other day and I guess I realized very quickly that I honestly don't think I've played much DQ before. It seems like maybe I've just played the spin-offs?! I've played the Slime games, the first person sword game on Wii, but maybe that's it?! The presentation style feels very, very dated despite the attractive graphics. FF12 on the other hand is my favorite modern FF and is very dynamic. With that being said, I bought the remaster when it came out on PS4 (had it pre-ordered for 15 months or so!) and barely played it.. maybe 45 minutes. It's hard for me to replay games I learn time and time again, lol.

Even though it's older, it still feels far more modern to me than DQ11, so I'd still suggest it if you've never played it.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,262
DQXI has got to be the most wildly overrated game on the forum. In gameplay mechanics it mimics series conventions while undermining their foundations with decisions that suggest the developers have forgotten the reason those conventions worked to begin with. In story, it starts charmingly enough but by the end it has sabotaged or chickened out of every interesting or compelling idea it had.

FFXII is rough and messy but has interesting ideas in both gameplay and narrative that remain unique and compelling today.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,726
I couldn't get into DQ like I wanted to, the gameplay was just not engaging at all. I enjoyed all the DS remakes but 11 just lost me for some reason.

FF12 Zodiac Age has one of my favorite battle systems, god damn I loved optimizing my team and going in the hunts.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I liked FFXII but enjoyed Dragon Quest XI far, far more, so would recommend the latter.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,279
tough choice, both are on gamepass so pretty interesting. I finished FF12 Zodiac a while ago, I enjoyed it but wasn't that memorable to me. I'm playing DQ XI-S now (gamepass xbox) and enjoying it but it feels pretty standard and tropey to me.

If you have an xbox and gamepass I'd honestly just say download em both and take it for an hour or two spin and see which one sticks with you, I honestly wouldn't know how you could pick one or the other.

The only bad thing is both games are extremely long. Like crazy ass long. I've sunk at least 80 hours into DQ XI, I think i'm still in act 2 of 3. These two, Xenoblade DE, and Persona 5 all feel of an ilk in some ways.
 

oldzac

Member
Jan 22, 2020
186
If you care about music at all, FFXII is the easy pick. Also DQXI is about twice as long (read: about 30 hours too long).
 

HeyNay

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Somewhere
DQ is turn-based, like the old games. A little less stressful to pick up and play, and a little less to think about.

FFXII is a strategy/stat management game. You program characters to act a certain way in certain conditions by creating a list of actions to prioritize in battle. The game is about building a team that acts well together while you monitor the battle and issues manual commands to the party as needed.

It sounds boring on paper, but I found it extremely rewarding, addicting, and engaging the entire way through. Battles will challege you to mix up your strategy, and there are plenty of lengthy dungeons to test your long term planning skills. If you like political drama and above average voice acting, the story will hold your attention.

DQ is cartoony and fun. I can't speak to the rest of the game because I haven't finished it yet. They're both good games though. Depends on what you're looking for. In your case, I'd probably recommend DQ. FFXII feels like a game that demands a little more of your time and attention, and you can easily spend that hour of game time starring at menus and lists just setting up for the next battle when you could be running around bashing slimes.
 

Rapscallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,792
DQ. It's a long game, but you're constantly going to new areas and it has a nice pace to it.

XII is great, but there's long stretches of that game where you're barely progressing the plot. I was playing it pretty consistently and forgot what was going on storywise several times because I'd be in a particularly long dungeon or overworld segment.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,216
I laughed out loud for real when I read the thread title.. sorry.

Only because there is NO COMPARISON between the masterpiece of an JRPG game in every possible way which is DQXI with the boring FFXII.

Do yourself a favor and experience one of the best adventures of a life time and jump into DQXI ASAP.
 

HeyNay

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Somewhere
DQ. It's a long game, but you're constantly going to new areas and it has a nice pace to it.

XII is great, but there's long stretches of that game where you're barely progressing the plot. I was playing it pretty consistently and forgot what was going on storywise several times because I'd be in a particularly long dungeon or overworld segment.

There's that one stretch across a desert that seemed to go on for HOURS. I think I quit the game for a couple of weeks before coming back to it. FFXII is a very fine game, but it has a dungeon-crawl feel to it that you'll either love, or you'll hate.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,003
I started FFXII last week and I'm really not sure I can go on with this combat system. I really have no idea how people get any sort of pleasure from this auto-stuff.

At least in turn-based RPGs, I have to, you know, input commands... :\

So yeah, DQ all the way, but it's bloated as fuck.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
Both are somewhat of a snooze fest but there's still a lot I admire about FFXII

Dragon Quest XI I somewhat vehemently hate and the praise it gets baffles me

It's boring as fuck and doesn't do anything remotely unique. Maybe I'm not the type of person who likes """"chill"""" games.

"cOmFoRt FoOd"
Dragon Quest XI has gameplay that belongs in the 1980's. The last thing someone should praise about DQXI is the abhorrent gameplay
I didn't like any of them.

But I managed to finish Final Fantasy XII, so I'll vote for it. Dragon Quest XI was such a boring drag.



I can't believe we finally agree on something. The combat system in DQXI is primitive, slow and extremely boring.
I don't agree

there's nothing beautiful about 40-year-old gameplay

the game does absolutely nothing even remotely new. It's boring, it's lazy, it's insulting. At least that's how I view it.
Beauty and boredom...
High five!! Lol

I'd rather play FFXV 100 times than play DQXI for another hour
Edit: unnecessary egging/borderline trolling shame on me
Not everything needs to be radically changed or revolutionized. I would much rather have a game whose gameplay is rooted in elements from the 1980s if it executes that vision better than the game trying to revolutionize and falling short.

Hell, we still have people gathering at tables to play Dungeons & Dragons because even though it's extremely old school, it scratches a particular itch that nothing else can. There's a reason why the NBA exists and Slamball is dead. There's a reason why racing simulators have you racing around tracks with traditional, old passing and why Mario Kart has you taking shortcuts and throwing koopa shells at one another. It's all about execution.

Not every wheel needs to be reinvented.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,644
I love FFXII but I say go with DQXI. I don't remember a time where I played a RPG when the NPCs made me care as much for them as I did with this.
 

7thFloor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,647
U.S.
Not everything needs to be radically changed or revolutionized. I would much rather have a game whose gameplay is rooted in elements from the 1980s if it executes that vision better than the game trying to revolutionize and falling short.

Hell, we still have people gathering at tables to play Dungeons & Dragons because even though it's extremely old school, it scratches a particular itch that nothing else can. There's a reason why the NBA exists and Slamball is dead. There's a reason why racing simulators have you racing around tracks with traditional, old passing and why Mario Kart has you taking shortcuts and throwing koopa shells at one another. It's all about execution.

Not every wheel needs to be reinvented.
D&D may be old but it's has way way WAY more going on than DQ, and they still iterate by adding sub classes and tweaking things. Not to mention you can homebrew all you want. I said that it was boring not that old = bad.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
D&D may be old but it's has way way WAY more going on than DQ, and they still iterate by adding sub classes and tweaking things. Not to mention you can homebrew all you want. I said that it was boring not that old = bad.
That's fair then. Maybe I shouldn't have lumped you in with those posts drawing negativity from the 1980s.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,037
Not everything needs to be radically changed or revolutionized. I would much rather have a game whose gameplay is rooted in elements from the 1980s if it executes that vision better than the game trying to revolutionize and falling short.

Hell, we still have people gathering at tables to play Dungeons & Dragons because even though it's extremely old school, it scratches a particular itch that nothing else can. There's a reason why the NBA exists and Slamball is dead.

These aren't great examples.

Dungeons and Dragons is on it's 5th edition and has consistently evolved since it's inception. The current game isn't much like the first edition in the 1970s.

The NBA also evolves- Michael Jordan couldn't shoot 3 pointers worth a damn when he got to the NBA, because they were such a recent change to the game that there was no 3 point shot when he played college ball. Put Steph Curry on a 1979 basketball team where the 3 pointer doesn't exist, see what happens. It's not the same game.

Dragon Quest is a rather confusing example of a game that ignores nearly every innovation that's happened in the genre adopted by its contemporaries, and is so far behind that FFXII is light years past it from a gameplay perspective despite being a decade older. The party AI in DQ11 is straight up brain dead in comparison.

edit: to be clear, it has other things going for it- a lot of people like the big towns and the toriyama art, or like the plot (it's a miss for me, personally) but *gameplay?* that's not it's strong point.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,274
Dragon Quest XI is good...but even as a big dragon quest fan the game play tends to feel slow and dated. Go with FF XII
 

Zen Hero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,638
Both are pretty great but FF12 is one of my favorite RPGs ever, I would recommend it.

If nothing else, there is no other game like FF12 and there probably never will be again, it's certainly pretty unique.
 

JLP101

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,745
Played and beat both last summer. Both are very different games. FF12 is my personal choice, one of my favorite JRPGS, DQ11 is more old school if your into that sort of thing.
 

lightning16

Member
May 17, 2019
1,763
I plan on giving FF12 another spin, but my first attempt at playing the game back on the PS2 was not positive. I thought it was a complete bore, with a boring world and boring gameplay. I admittedly dropped it pretty quickly, though, so it's entirely possible it's better (and the reason I plan on giving it another shot).

Dragon Quest XI S, on the other hand, was right up there with Three Houses as my GOTY for 2019. Loved it.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
The NBA also evolves- Michael Jordan couldn't shoot 3 pointers worth a damn when he got to the NBA, because they were such a recent change to the game that there was no 3 point shot when he played college ball. Put Steph Curry on a 1979 basketball team where the 3 pointer doesn't exist, see what happens. It's not the same game.
Right. The game has been iterated over several decades and not radically revolutionized. It appears that we're making the same point.
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,037
Right. The game has been iterated over several decades and not radically revolutionized. It appears that we're making the same point.

We aren't, because my point is that DQ11 goes out of its way NOT to implement changes that are now standard in the genre for nostalgic purposes. That's not a good thing.

It's as if the NCAA had seen the NBA adopt the 3 point shot in 1980, decided "nah, we're just not going to do that" and ignored the game evolving because fans wouldn't like it.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
We aren't, because my point is that DQ11 goes out of its way NOT to implement changes that are now standard in the genre for nostalgic purposes. That's not a good thing.

It's as if the NCAA had seen the NBA adopt the 3 point shot in 1980, decided "nah, we're just not going to do that" and ignored the game evolving because fans wouldn't like it.
Are you implying that Dragon Quest as a series has not made iterations from Dragon Warrior to present?
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,037
Are you implying that Dragon Quest as a series has not made iterations from Dragon Warrior to present?

I'm saying pretty clearly that dragon quest as a series intentionally did NOT implement many of the gameplay innovations that are now standard within the genre that it's contemporaries have.

It's made some token improvements, but now plays like a game from 1993 while everyone else is in 2021. If you're in the mood to play a really old JRPG with a new coat of paint, DQ11 is your game.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
Dragon Quest XI S without the shadow of the doubt.

Final Fantasy technically died after X & the only good thing left with it's IP are their spinoffs such as World of Final Fantasy Maxima & FFVII Remake.
 
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GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,645
DQ IX by a mile.

FF12 had one of the worst combat system i have ever encountered in a JRPG and considering that i played a lot of kusoge that tells a lot.

I feel the same way but FF12's combat is just mostly not my thing, I at least get why other people like it. DQ11 rules though.
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
i found dragon quest a pretty straight up and down traditional jrpg, silent protagonist, turn based battles and all, plus didn't really vibe with the characters all that much. I vote FF12 since I love its battle system.
 

Wink784

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
XII is probably my favorite of the 3D Final Fantasy games, but I really believe anyone who has never played a DQ game needs to try one and never has there been a better time to do so than DQXI in my opionion. Yes, it's easy to dismiss them for being stuck in time to a certain extent, but if the charming elements that make them so beloved by their fans work for you, then you might just feel like being wrapped in a blanket with a cup of hot chocolate on a childhood's christmas morning. And I say that as someone who does not have great deal nostalgia for them having only played half of VIII and finished XI. I would say give DQ a chance, you will find out pretty early if the aesthetic and vibe grabs you. If it doesn't, move on to FF.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
I'm saying pretty clearly that dragon quest as a series intentionally did NOT implement many of the gameplay innovations that are now standard within the genre that it's contemporaries have.

It's made some token improvements, but now plays like a game from 1993 while everyone else is in 2021.
Why can't Dragon Quest be it's own thing while iterating and improving it's own product? Like my (your) analogy of basketball. Minor changes over time while not introducing trampolines to turn it into Slamball.

You and pleaseinsertdisctwo keep throwing random dates out there to try and insult the game. The 1980s. 1993. What is wrong with something being true to it's own vision while improving that product in a way that is presentable and fun in whatever modern day the game releases? Dragon Quest XI released in 2017 and reviewed extremely well. The enhanced version released in 2020 is the 8th highest critically reviewed game from that year. This isn't an accident. It's a great, modern iteration of their vision.
 

HorseFD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,025
Melbourne
I think it depends on what kind of combat you prefer, and the general feel and atmosphere you want to experience. They're both great games which are worthy of your time.
 
Oct 31, 2017
14,991
Why can't Dragon Quest be it's own thing while iterating and improving it's own product? Like my (your) analogy of basketball. Minor changes over time while not introducing trampolines to turn it into Slamball.

You and pleaseinsertdisctwo keep throwing random dates out there to try and insult the game. The 1980s. 1993. What is wrong with something being true to it's own vision while improving that product in a way that is presentable and fun in whatever modern day the game releases? Dragon Quest XI released in 2017 and reviewed extremely well. The enhanced version released in 2020 is the 8th highest critically reviewed game from that year. This isn't an accident. It's a great, modern iteration of their vision.


Because it's a game that does nothing new in any way. It's, uh, great for what it is.... I guess. But I disagree with a game as unambitious and as stuck in the past as DQXI being worthy of praise. In fact I felt insulted while playing the game. I couldn't believe that this is a game released in modern times. EVERYTHING felt ancient, boring, unambitious. Just a game that's all about evoking nostalgia. And "charm," but the lack of ambition in pretty much all areas of the game ruins any potential "charm" it may have for me.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,387
In fact I felt insulted while playing the game.
nWq.gif
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
DQ XI for me


youtu.be

Dragon Quest XI: The Kotaku Review

Dragon Quest XI is the best game in the 32-year-old series. I don't say that lightly. I've obsessed over Dragon Quest for the last thirty years. I've played ...

I love how DQ sticks to a tried and true combat system. FF XII had probably my least-favorite combat of the FF series, and it feels like a slog to play even though the world has some cool locations.
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,155
Dragon Quest XI is far and away the better game on most fronts, IMHO. Sublime and simple-done-well.
 

Drek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,231
Because it's a game that does nothing new in any way. It's, uh, great for what it is.... I guess. But I disagree with a game as unambitious and as stuck in the past as DQXI being worthy of praise. In fact I felt insulted while playing the game. I couldn't believe that this is a game released in modern times. EVERYTHING felt ancient, boring, unambitious. Just a game that's all about evoking nostalgia. And "charm," but the lack of ambition in pretty much all areas of the game ruins any potential "charm" it may have for me.
Also get the bonus insult of it treating its female characters like shit throughout the second half.

My wife and I loved the first act. How they treated the female characters in act 2 had my wife ready to check out as it was, then she saw that it threw arbitrary grinding in at a few points. Suddenly I'm finishing it on my own and not really enjoy8ng it at that.

FFXII is a much older and yet far more inventive game in both gameplay and narrative. The later stumbles hard in the back end and the Loss of Matsuno is, to me, a palpable downgrade.

if you just want any Gamepass RPG I'd suggest Ikenfell tbh. If you want high production values and traditional experience go for DQ. If you want some good production values and a late 200X type RPG that's FFXII.
 

Tochtli79

Member
Jun 27, 2019
5,778
Mexico City
For some reason I really struggle to get into DQ games, including DQXI which seemingly everyone loves. While FFXII is one of my favourite games and has generally a good reputation.

I'd recommend FFXII either way, but if you are not into JRPGs I think you're more likely to enjoy it since DQXI is a very classic turn based RPG, while FFXII has some more innovation (though it's still very much a menu based RPG).
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,037
Because it's a game that does nothing new in any way. It's, uh, great for what it is.... I guess. But I disagree with a game as unambitious and as stuck in the past as DQXI being worthy of praise. In fact I felt insulted while playing the game. I couldn't believe that this is a game released in modern times. EVERYTHING felt ancient, boring, unambitious. Just a game that's all about evoking nostalgia. And "charm," but the lack of ambition in pretty much all areas of the game ruins any potential "charm" it may have for me.

I don't even hate the game. It's fine for what it's going for. It does some things well- again, a lot of nice big towns, some of the characterization and writing is on point, and if you like wandering around in a toriyama anime you will have a lovely time doing so.

That being said the gameplay is decidedly not fine, has a ton of backwards and confusing decisions that appear to exist purely for "nostalgia" and no other reason, and it holds back the game. Why is there an option to move around your party members during combat that is completely useless? You can position your characters for what in any other RPG would result in distance related defense bonuses or back attacks but in DQXI these are inexplicably missing and not an option? Why? There's no coherent reason for this.

I'm not going to pretend FFXII is flawless- it does have it's issues here and there (though Zodiac fixes A LOT of them) but if we are looking at the *gameplay* between one and the other it is night and day.

This is what I mean: DQXI's AI is so brain dead I had to leave it on "orders only" for 99% of the game. The other options were nearly useless. "Fight Wisely" "Mix it Up" "Don't Use MP" "Focus on Healing" etc. Extremely broad, says almost nothing about what actions will be taken, and your characters will end up doing nonsense more often than not.

FFXII? (and I'm quoting myself from a previous post here).

FFXII's AI allows the player to fine tune behavior to such a degree that it's light years past all of these. Not only can i tell a party member to "heal me", i can SPECIFICALLY tell that party member to heal ONLY certain characters in the party, ONLY with Cura and not Curaga, and ONLY when HP is below 20%. Maybe I NEVER want to heal my main damage dealer because critical HP status is better for Combos. A gambit allows me to resurrect only him or her when KO'ed with no healing while treating the rest of the party normally.

The gambit system allows party members to immediately recognize negative status effects and remedy them with the most effective method in real time, AND sustain positive status effects (haste, reflect, bubble) to keep them active through dangerous areas at all times without me micromanaging my buffs.

I dont have to hope the AI figures out who the most dangerous opponent is, i can set a gambit to hit the party leader's target, the current enemy targeting a specific character, the enemy with the most HP, the highest level, or the highest magic power.

If i want to do weird offbeat things like use phoenix downs on dragons when i see them (and there are reasons you might want to), or physically attack my own party to impose a positive status effect with an unusual weapon i can guarantee that action gets done 100% of the time.

The AI can be set to distinguish between when to use a spell based not just on whether the enemy is weak to it or not, but simply vulnerable vs. flat out immune.

And ALL of these actions can be prioritzed by me. A braindead AI might think resurrecting a party member is more important than removing Confuse from a teammate, but if i disagree i can switch priorities for those behaviors easily. Maybe i want to immediately resurrect UNLESS my prime damage dealer is confused at the time in which case FIX THAT FIRST. Gambit lets me do this with precision.

And you're going to try and say that the party AI in DQXI is good? When it's lapped this badly by a decade old system running on the PS2?

and for the "Well, the game plays itself!" criticism, pick up Zodiac Age, and start up Trial mode. Put your money where your mouth is and try to get the game to "play itself" through all 100 stages. If you can get past level 15 or 20 without serious strategizing and optimizing of your gambits and equipment, I would be VERY surprised.
 
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