He used it to learn Nam(u)'s motivation in the first tourney.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Dragon Ball Super |OT5| A new ERA of Dragon Ball [Tag all DBS Broly spoilers until February 1st]
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
- Status
Also for people saying Goku has felt chi similar to Moro's before, that must be an anime only thing. Don't remember that being a thing in the manga.
So apparently Jamie Marchi is being accused of sexual assault against a minor. Only the person who said they were a minor 7 years ago when she apparently assaulted him has also been caught saying they were about to turn 21 7 years ago.
If y'all don't know who Jamie Marchi is she's also a VA and probably the second biggest target of the standwithvic morons.
If y'all don't know who Jamie Marchi is she's also a VA and probably the second biggest target of the standwithvic morons.
I had been thinking real hard for awhile on my favorite fights in the series. ToP had some of my favorite fights in the whole series. Literally took me awhile to create, cause I went back and re-watched/re-read these fights. But these are the ten I love the most with eight honorable mentions:
1. Goku VS Piccolo
2. Goku VS Jiren
3. Goku VS Freeza
4. Goku VS Daimao II
5. Goku VS Tenshinhan
6. Goku VS Cell
7. Goku + Gohan + Kuririn + Yajirobe VS Vegeta
8. Goku VS Jiren III
9. Goku + Freeza + 17 VS Jiren
10. Goku VS Kefla
HM:
1. Jackie Chun VS Tenshinhan
2. Vegeta VS Recoome
3. Goku VS Jackie Chun
4. Hit VS Dyspo
6. Hit VS Jiren
7. Goku VS Kuririn II
8. Gohan VS Lavender
1. Goku VS Piccolo
2. Goku VS Jiren
3. Goku VS Freeza
4. Goku VS Daimao II
5. Goku VS Tenshinhan
6. Goku VS Cell
7. Goku + Gohan + Kuririn + Yajirobe VS Vegeta
8. Goku VS Jiren III
9. Goku + Freeza + 17 VS Jiren
10. Goku VS Kefla
HM:
1. Jackie Chun VS Tenshinhan
2. Vegeta VS Recoome
3. Goku VS Jackie Chun
4. Hit VS Dyspo
6. Hit VS Jiren
7. Goku VS Kuririn II
8. Gohan VS Lavender
I really don't agree with this. Sure Jiren had stress applied to him, but him turning into a villain for a brief moment felt really out of character for him.
It felt more as if they needed something to make Jiren look bad so Goku could have a "cool" dialogue exchange. I don't care for it personally.
Lmao there's a guy on YT who does his own english dub for the Super manga. (Or at least he did it for the latest chapter)
It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be from the little I heard
It actually wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be from the little I heard
Going out of character is exactly what trauma can make someone do. It is perfectly in line with the effects of having that kind of emotion seep through a vulnerable facade.
Jiren is a hero who does work for himself mostly but him going from good guy to villain for a brief moment was very odd. In this context I really cannot agree personally.
I liked Jiren attacking the audience as a move you're not sure you can ever fully forgive him for, and it makes him fascinating to me. He lashes out when his worldview is shattered, grasping at anything to prove to that Goku's strength is not as pure as his, anything else would be to concede that his masque is one built on a false premise. But he ends up realizing that it completely was in the end.
It was a shitty, spineless move made by a not-good person, but makes for a pretty great character imo.
It was a shitty, spineless move made by a not-good person, but makes for a pretty great character imo.
I work as a trauma and crisis counsellor. I've talked to people who lash out because of their trauma, which is often repressed. What Jiren did was very similar to what I've seen and heard from trauma victims. I've talked to spouses of veterans who see sudden changes in their partner who they otherwise thought of as normal and good natured. Or victims of childhood and sexual abuse, the whole gamut really. They aren't 'villains' when their rage overtakes them, even if they do something bad - a villain is a longer term vocation, I think. PTSD, or other pathologies involved with trauma, is a condition that can affect people in such a way that when they're triggered by something, it can be like they can't control who they are anymore, for a brief period. I don't think Jiren became a villain, so much as he couldn't control himself because his self conception was falling apart and it brought all the rage he'd been bottling up since when he was younger.
Not all trauma victims lash out at others though, it is also common for people to inflict harm on themselves. Of course Jiren was in the middle of a fight, so it makes sense that he lashed out at others.
Also, consider when Jiren was going to give up and Toppo was like 'Jiren, remember who you are - the strongest'. Toppo reaffirmed Jiren's identity but in a healthy way, the first sign of connection between friends.
I feel like what you're sharing about your expertise is much more in-depth than what was intended for this particular scene in Dragon Ball. At the same time, I feel like it would be similar to Goku having a change of heart and attacking the crowd. I didn't feel what occurred necessarily warranted that kind of reaction, as in from a storytelling point of view, it went against Jiren's entire character and especially since afterwards it was forgotten so swiftly which further makes me believe it wasn't as well thought out as you have presented but more so for Goku to have a moment of coolness which is honestly further shown by how well drawn Goku's face is as he has his brief speech.
Suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.
I'm saying that what was displayed with Jiren is literally the effect of trauma and rage. it's not really something that can be disagreed with. The writers clearly intended to show this as it's exactly how his character was depicted. Jiren's emotional state wasn't forgotten swiftly at all. He was still vulnerable after he lashed out, as exemplified by Freeza's taunts getting to him and sapping his will to go on.
None of this stuff goes against Jiren's character at all, because he was being defined as someone with repressed trauma and emotion. Trauma can make a person act in ways they wouldn't otherwise, often unpredictably. This was made clear throughout his depiction. I feel the writers even went to some lengths to make this obvious, as it's talked about or shown a number of times. Another example is how when Jiren is beating the hell out of Vegeta, just before he knocks him out of the ring. Vegeta says something like 'you wouldn't understand what it's like to fight to protect something, emotionless bastard', which Jiren reacts to with a slightly subtle facial gesture towards, like in a snap moment he sees that Vegeta isn't all that unlike him. It's stuff like that which builds towards Jiren's character, he's constantly confronted with the fact that his way, the isolating, arrogant strength, isn't the only way to fight for what you believe in. All culminating with Goku actually becoming physically superior eventually, forcing his repressed emotion to the surface.
Yeah we'll just have to agree to disagree as I don't see it that way. That said I actually appreciate you writing out all of this, I enjoy it when others put effort into their posts as it's fun to see others view points more elaborated even when one disagrees.
I mean, that's what was depicted in the show, so if you're not seeing it that way then you're not seeing what was there. There isn't really any ambiguity with the writing here. Like, Belmod telling Jiren's backstory is him spelling it out, saying that Jiren experienced traumatic events when he was younger and then subdued his emotions, isolated himself and only cared about being strong. Since this is a statement of a character who knows Jiren personally, defining him as a victim of trauma that is repressing it, then it it follows that him later displaying one of the potential symptoms of trauma and emotional repression - lashing out, is a reasonable path in his development as a character.
His trauma shouldn't be one random bout that isn't further expressed or elaborated on in later. I don't really see his backstory as a build up for him to attack innocent people, especially since he was the hero of that Universe essentially. He's been in so many battles and pushed to the brink so many times, but we don't have any story elements portraying that he might be unstable sometimes. Perhaps maybe if this was expressed further, even within the mind of Jiren at the time which we don't get that either or even later I might give this some more thought but none of it connects to me. I recall watching this episode with a group of friends at a WingStop on the TV there and we were all like "what the?!" at the scene as it felt so random and uncharacteristic for Jiren.
I think at this point this is my view on the subject as I think it's shown neither of us agree with each other's perception of this scene so since I'm responding I'll read your next post if you send one about this topic, but I will not respond further on the topic in this particular case cause it's kind of going in circles a bit and I don't want to fill up the thread unnecessarily.
We don't need to have story elements portraying him as someone who becomes unstable because trauma, due to its nature, can cause people to act in ways outside of their normal character, even unbeknownst to them. It can be unpredictable. It is close to reality to have it seemingly come out of nowhere. Even with other things like depression, people can be like 'why do I suddenly feel so terrible?' Emotions can just work that way. You could even go your entire life after the traumatic incident, for years, with nothing happening and then a specific circumstance or event triggers you. Jiren faced some pretty tough odds in terms of what he came face to face with because it was like the perfect storm in bringing that out of him. It kind of mirrors Goku's pushing limits, and achieving UI because he too had to face a specific set of circumstances to bring out a hidden strength. It's the irony compared to Jiren, who revealed a hidden weakness.
It isn't left unexpressed anyways, as I said earlier. After Jiren's initial lashing out, he then later becomes despondent. This is part of his reaction to trauma as well. Also, as I mentioned before, there are a fair number of smaller instances of Jiren showing reactions to character dialogue that touch on there being something deeper inside of him.
The lead up to Jiren lashing out is punctuated by ever increasing instances of rage on his part. His fucking eyes start twitching. Goku is talking about how all his power comes from trusting his friends - the exact counter to the belief that has held in Jiren's trauma. This all precedes Jiren's moment of lashing out.
It isn't left unexpressed anyways, as I said earlier. After Jiren's initial lashing out, he then later becomes despondent. This is part of his reaction to trauma as well. Also, as I mentioned before, there are a fair number of smaller instances of Jiren showing reactions to character dialogue that touch on there being something deeper inside of him.
The lead up to Jiren lashing out is punctuated by ever increasing instances of rage on his part. His fucking eyes start twitching. Goku is talking about how all his power comes from trusting his friends - the exact counter to the belief that has held in Jiren's trauma. This all precedes Jiren's moment of lashing out.
Last edited:
Good posts, man. I hadn't quite considered the foil between Goku achieving UI (breaking his limits) and Jiren's shackling to his past.
Man I just wish his flashback wasn't so rote and corny.
Yeah, hopefully when the series returns and if Jiren gets to be in the spotlight again, they'll expand on him some more.
i think the problem with Jiren's flashback lies more in the execution than in the content personally, it just isn't given enough emotional weight due to the fact that it doesn't really give you enough time to connect with younger Jiren on an emotional level
The problem with Jirens backstory isn't really that it's so basic. That would be fine if it was either left more vague or actually shown as a full flashback and allowed you to emotionally invest in it. The cliff notes version really highlighted how cliche it was where I think they could have easily avoided that without actually changing any of it. Despite that pretty big miss step I think Jiren worked really well as a character especially towards the end. I'm not going to convince anyone else and I don't care to but I personally think he's one of the better antagonists in the entirety of the series.
Which one? The one that plays when he is about to eliminate Hit?
I've watched the LatAm screening videos of this scene so many times, I can still hear the cheering watching this. :lol
Nice. Gonna have to snag this one asap. Movie was my favorite of the modern films by a long shot.
Feels so awesome that the LatAm version is coming pretty soon, this monday Episode 126 airs.
OP
OP
After a year of being absent Dragon Ball Heroes is FINALLY adding shirtless "Full Power" Jiren and GoD Toppo.
Glad they are finally mopping up the ToP, wonder if they are doing so because Super's return is on the horizon.
Glad they are finally mopping up the ToP, wonder if they are doing so because Super's return is on the horizon.
I wanted him to go back, ask them to gather the Dragon Balls to defuse him, and while they were doing that, sit down and go into a meditative state. We go into his mind for one more mental throwdown... Goku and Vegeta vs Vegito.
Ahhh interesting... Made me think... If Vegito doesn't want to defuse, then Shenron can't force it to happen. Would be interesting to see how that goes down. Vegito seems perfectly fine with being Vegito.
Especially when Gokus body couldn't sustain Ultra Instinct, thought his body almost got ripped apart.
Plus he yelled at Vegeta when he was gonna kill Broly.
Strong as hell physically, but all he wanted was a hug.
That could be a good part of it. Have a conflict between those desires, and dig into just how a fused character's personality works.
- Status