Wait so it isn't superior black hair Wrath Form Broly? :(I don't think it's his wrath form.
It sounds like he goes from this:
To this:
That's so disappointing if true.
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Dragon Ball FighterZ - Broly (DBS) Gameplay Details Leaked
- Thread starter Kalmakov
- Start date
That's so disappointing if true.
Did people totally miss that the whole Saiyan saga was about Goku coming from a horrible culture and rising above it while still having attributes of it - being exceptional for who he is as an individual even if he is just another Saiyan?
Broly is pretty much a retread of a premise from the original manga instead of being some dumb bullshit from the movies.
Why couldn't baby Goku just shut the fuck up and let Broly get some sleep? I always assumed Broly associated being stabbed and left for dead with Goku's crying.
I really don't understand how "giant baby who only cares about someone he never met" is better.
Expand them to show that they were a diverse and complex society of people with different personalities and ideals under asystem that valued combat strength above all and not only a band of one-note "Argh I'm so tough!" Brutes ?
Like he actually shows a flawed society of warriors that makes sense?
I don't think the text would be saying he turns into a Super Saiyan if he already was one and just broke his armor at that point.
What? DBS Broly pretty much goes against what was initially believed from the Saiyans as a deconstruction of the Superman origin to become a blatant ripoff of it instead.
Already answered that.
A ripoff is not more "diverse".
A literal giant baby is nothing like the original essence of the Saiyans. They were barbarians, not idiots.
I sure hope so. Broly's new development may not be deep, but at least he has the potential to be a better character than what he was. I've always preferred his pre-roid stages in every design he's had (minus the goop monster. We don't talk about BioBroly)
I actually love new Broly. I think he's awesome and want him in the games and everything. Especially his base Wrath Form. Design and personality is superior imo.
I couldn't stand non-canon Broly. Hated him. It's so weird seeing just how much a difference I feel with the new one lol.
I couldn't stand non-canon Broly. Hated him. It's so weird seeing just how much a difference I feel with the new one lol.
Exactly, the asshole conquering warriors were top dogs while weaker saiyans like Tech Guy were treated like shit
How does an entire planet of beings like this even manages to form a society? Let alone a political system? Operate technology?
You seem to be conflating "oozaru" with "saiyan". The original Saiyans were planet-mongering mercenary bastards, not indiscriminate rage beasts.
Broly represents the latter obviously.
Where does that question even comes from?
Anyway, by stealing and slaving others as was explained at first.
...so he represents nothing. The Saiyans were not rage monsters. Vegeta makes it very clear in the early days of the series that as a people the Saiyans conquered planets for fun and then when Frieza took over they were used as mercenaries to SELL planets.
He represents Saiyans in their purest form, that is the Oozarus.
Because a race of rage monsters simply cannot form a functioning society.
The Saiyans had shitty views but you need to be able to THINK, organize and use strategy to achieve what they achieved.
Except that Broly has nothing to do with Oozaru? He's never ever stated to even have a connection to that side of him.
You know who does? New Broly.
Dragonball isn't a deconstruction of Superman. It isn't a series made to answer the question "what if Kryptonians were actually evil". Rather, the Saiyans were devised to examine Goku himself. The manga had spent dozens of chapters showing him as a super strong, talented fighter with a bunch of superhuman abilities before introducing the idea of the Saiyans.
By introducing the Saiyans, we see Goku compared to opponents to whom he isn't special; any special trait of the Saiyan species that Goku possesses is also possessed by Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta. But Goku is different because he's been raised to be kind, he's built up a small army of allies to fight beside him, so the Saiyans still lose.
The brutal Saiyans are proved inferior to the kind Goku.
Super Broly revisits that concept. He's got the potential to rise above the brutal nature of the Saiyan race just as Goku does, but he didn't have the opportunity because of Paragus.
Again, slaved and stealed from other more capable ones.
It was pretty much implied in the original based on his state.
Again, if they are all rage monsters, how did they plan their attacks? Organize their earnings? Exploit their resources? Build a society?
What you describe would be constantly killing each other.
Yes, it is a deconstruction of the Superman origin. Is blatantly obvious.
I think you're overestimating the amount of thought put into old Broly.
He's literally the anime director's OC "Who is so much stronger than Goku you gaiz". That's it. Toriyama perfected the concept.
It's inspired by it. "Deconstruction" implies that it actually has something to say about Superman.
Please expand. "They steal and kill" ok cool. How does a bunch of people that only know how to kill and steal organize? How do they even understood technology if not by having some members be smart enough to figure it out? How did they survive if not by assigning a group like the weaker females to handle the food? How did they establish a political system if they're just animals that only know how to fight?
Your answer is basically "they killed for it" which is not an answer. Toriyama's depiction makes perfect sense.
Same dude who was sure his OC could totally defeat the literal God of Destruction designed by the series' creator
DESTINY that he arbitrarily hates a baby because they were born on the same day, and not because of any class differences or, ANYTHING reasonable. The original Broly - and the movie itself - does absolutely nothing to convey any meaning behind Broly's hatred of Goku. There is no story. It's just a five year old's STRONGEST SAIYAN EVER!!! fanart given a budget for some stupid reason.
User Warned: Derogatory language
The original Broly movie was THAT hard to understand for you?
So, here we go again, I guess:
Movie 8 was great and Broly was good in it.
So, let's start with a simple fact: No, he is not a "manbaby".
You think that because of the famous "Broly is angry because Goku was crying when he was a baby" meme.
The story of Paragas and his son is actually nice (for a Dragon Ball story):
- King Vegeta tried to kill Paragas and his son because he was a threat for him
- Broly was awake when he was stabbed (and Goku was crying)
- The Planet Vegeta was destroyed by Frieza around the same time
- So, baby Broly protected himself with a shield to survive
- Some years after that, Broly started to be a real killing machine and no, it was not because of baby Goku:
"Broly was the very model of a Saiyan. As he began to develop, the extraordinary battle power he was born with increased and turned savage to the same extent as I, his father, felt terror towards him."
- Paragas started to see his son as a tool for his revenge, so he made a control device to mindfuck him
"At last, by being able to manipulate Broly's power at will, I had obtained the power to control the whole universe!"
- Paragas wants to etablish his empire on Earth, so he build the New Planet Vegeta to acquire the Earth unharmed
- The planet is a trap to kill Vegeta and his friends with a comet
- But Goku is here
- Broly's saiyan instincts are triggered by the strength of Goku and his past memory, so he starts to overcome the control device
- Goku is basically the trigger allowing him to free himself from his father's control
During the first half of the story, he is angry and act like a dumbass with a lot of "Kakarot!!" because he is still under control, but when the device is destroyed, he is finally himself. At this point, he stop screaming "Kakarot" everytime because he is not only focused on him anymore.
Also, I'm tired of that "one line" argument, he has more than one line, a little proof:
"Kakarot, you will be the first blood sacrifice"
"If you guys don't demonstrate the will to fight me, I will just destroy the whole planet!"
"It looks as though you've finally decided to fight. Did you think you could defeat me with that level of Power?"
"The slaves we brought from Planet Shamo, huh? You've gazed at the stars, wishing someday to return there, haven't you?
It would be nice to go back someday, wouldn't it? *destroy the planet* [...] HAHAHAHA"
"Kakarot, is your son dear to you?"
"My Ki is rising. It's overflowing!"
"Kakarot's son... *try to kill him with a ki blast* So, another worm has come here to die?"
"I am a Monster? Not so. I am the Devil. HAHAHAHA"
"You could have gotten off just being killed like good boys, you didn't have to meet with such a painful fate!
I'll give you credit for being every bit Saiyan."
"Hmph! I'm not going to let you die so easily"
"Finished yet? Finished, all right. Scum is, after all, scum."
"Broly: Where are you going?
Paragas: I-I'm preparing to seek shelter together with you!
Broly: In a single-seat pod?
*crush his father and throw him away*
Did you think it would take the explosion of a planet for me to die?"
"You scum, are you still alive? Well, come on! This will be the place where you die!"
"It's gotta be this way, or it wouldn't be any fun!"
"You've lasted well, but it looks as though the end has finally come."
"HAHAHA! No matter how much power you absorb from those small fries, you cannot overcome me!"
The second movie reduced him as a dumbass like when he was controlled by the device, they probably thought that it was a nice idea because the last thing he saw before his death was Goku crying when he was a baby. They have done the same thing in the third movie and in a lot of games after that, but Broly as a character was not THAT dumb in the first one, which is one of the most popular Dragon Ball movie by the way.
So why Broly is loved?
Because he actually has a nice background, a nice design, he is a beast who can easily fight 4 saiyajin, he is a good villain with the personality of a demon, and he also has the title of the lengendary super saiyan (in 1993), but it's mainly because his movie was REALLY nice. So yeah, he is simply iconic.
The funny thing here is that I don't even like him (actually, I hated him when I was young), but I'm just really tired of all the things I can read about him here. The whole "generic muscled out dudebro", "Broly is dumb", "Broly is literally a giant manbaby", "muh gender" is really fucking retarded.
Aaaaand you're overstimating Toriyama. This is the guy who created a much less interesting Bardock.
Nah. Deconstruction has been used for decades now, especially in superhero comics, it's not really about telling something about the original, is about twisting the premise of the original and creating a new result.
They slave the ones who do that.
Also, Toriyama version is still a ripoff and boring.
Again, it works for the premise of the original.
Funny, I get the same reaction from Toriyama fanboys.
Not everything Toriyama does is perfect.
But he absolutely wrote a better Broly.
OK so they "enslave" others to do that.
How do they know how to organize their slaves?
How do they keep track of the resources that are entrusted to said slaves?
How do they even use the technology from their slaves if they're just mindless killing machines?
You're thinking like a 12 year old and not like an actual writer
A bunch of mindless fighting animals are simply incapable of achieving what the Saiyans are shown to have achieved.
More or less. This is why I disliked most of the DB movies, as lots of them either retread old ground (1st movie), has some villain come in for no reason other than to cause trouble (2nd, 3rd, 4th, all 3 Broly movies), has some weird tie to the canon series (both Cooler movies, Bojack, for whatever reason) or is pure filler nonsense (13). The 12th one is the one damned near everyone seems to agree is at least good, tolerable, or just fun because it is fun (it also has Gogeta which we all know is superior to Vegito).
... there was something to understand?
Come on, at some point you must admit you're coming with really specific details to try to "win" this argument.
Also, you're the one thinking like one by coming with insults like that.
Only because the original is shallow, vapid tripe with absolutely nothing to say.
Anything "works" when it's not trying to do anything but cater to the lowest common denominator!
I'm simply asking for some minimal world building that makes your idea of saiyans make sense.
Toriyama's take is written soundly enough to answer all of those. Why can't yours?
If you tell me how a bunch of animals that only know how to fight managed to create a functioning society by "just letting slaves handle everything not fighting" I'll concede.
Surely the Romans and Egyptians let slaves be the ones designing their currency systems, their infrastructure and resource management, right?
Hopefully we get bio broly at some point too. Can't have too many.
Oh my....eviscerate them!
I guess that I will just use my old post from another thread here otherwise you guys will never click on the quote:
So, let's start with a simple fact: No, he is not a "manbaby".
You think that because of the famous "Broly is angry because Goku was crying when he was a baby" meme which is completely wrong.
The story of Paragas and his son is actually nice (for a Dragon Ball story):
- King Vegeta tried to kill Paragas and his son because he was a threat for him
- Broly was awake when he was stabbed (and Goku was crying)
- The Planet Vegeta was destroyed by Frieza around the same time
- So, baby Broly protected himself with a shield to survive
- Some years after that, Broly started to be a real killing machine and no, it was not because of baby Goku:
"Broly was the very model of a Saiyan. As he began to develop, the extraordinary battle power he was born with increased and turned savage to the same extent as I, his father, felt terror towards him."
- Paragas started to see his son as a tool for his revenge, so he made a control device to mindfuck him
"At last, by being able to manipulate Broly's power at will, I had obtained the power to control the whole universe!"
- Paragas wants to etablish his empire on Earth, so he build the New Planet Vegeta to acquire the Earth unharmed
- The planet is a trap to kill Vegeta and his friends with a comet
- But Goku is here
- Broly's saiyan instincts are triggered by the strength of Goku and his past memory (which is linked to the moment he was stabbed, remember?), so he starts to overcome the control device
- Goku is basically the trigger allowing him to free himself from his father's control
During the first half of the story, he is angry and act like a dumbass with a lot of "Kakarot!!" because he is still under the control of Paragas, but when the device is destroyed, he is finally himself. At this point, he stop screaming "Kakarot" everytime because he is not only focused on him anymore.
Also, I'm tired of that "one line" argument, he has more than one line, a little proof:
"Kakarot, you will be the first blood sacrifice"
"If you guys don't demonstrate the will to fight me, I will just destroy the whole planet!"
"It looks as though you've finally decided to fight. Did you think you could defeat me with that level of Power?"
"The slaves we brought from Planet Shamo, huh? You've gazed at the stars, wishing someday to return there, haven't you?
It would be nice to go back someday, wouldn't it? *destroy the planet* [...] HAHAHAHA"
"Kakarot, is your son dear to you?"
"My Ki is rising. It's overflowing!"
"Kakarot's son... *try to kill him with a ki blast* So, another worm has come here to die?"
"I am a Monster? Not so. I am the Devil. HAHAHAHA"
"You could have gotten off just being killed like good boys, you didn't have to meet with such a painful fate!
I'll give you credit for being every bit Saiyan."
"Hmph! I'm not going to let you die so easily"
"Finished yet? Finished, all right. Scum is, after all, scum."
"Broly: Where are you going?
Paragas: I-I'm preparing to seek shelter together with you!
Broly: In a single-seat pod?
*crush his father and throw him away*
Did you think it would take the explosion of a planet for me to die?"
"You scum, are you still alive? Well, come on! This will be the place where you die!"
"It's gotta be this way, or it wouldn't be any fun!"
"You've lasted well, but it looks as though the end has finally come."
"HAHAHA! No matter how much power you absorb from those small fries, you cannot overcome me!"
The second movie reduced him as a dumbass like when he was controlled by the device, they probably thought that it was a nice idea because the last thing he saw before his death in the original movie was that old memory of Goku whe he was a little baby. They have done the same thing in the third movie and in a lot of games after that, but Broly as a character was not THAT dumb in the first one, which is one of the most popular Dragon Ball movie for a reason.
So why Broly is loved?
Because he actually has a nice background, a nice design, he is a beast who can easily fight 4 saiyajin, he is a good villain with the personality of a demon, and he also has the title of the legendary super saiyan (in 1993), but it's mainly because his movie was REALLY nice. So yeah, he is simply iconic.
The funny thing here is that I don't even like him (actually, I hated him when I was young), but I'm just really tired of all the things I can read about him here. The whole "generic muscled out dudebro", "Broly is dumb", "Broly is literally a giant manbaby" is really fucking dumb.
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You've made and lost that argument in this thread multiple times already.
How did barbarians organize in the past?
Also, they started to get more educated with time once that started to work for Cold's empire.
Oh my God, you people are hilarious.
By assigning defined roles beyond "fighter" within their society which led them to be organized and able to achieve a more complex and functioning society. Just like Toriyama shows the Saiyans doing.